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    Helen Magnus/John Druitt Ship/Discussion/Appreciation

    Personally, I'm quite fascinated by this rather dysfunctional pairing and I'd love to get a discussion going about it (if there isn't one already, in which case, oops) So if there are any other interested fans out there, come, have some tea, discuss! Let's hear some thoughts on this pairing that seems to be quite the opposite of the one(s) AT is involved in on Stargate...

    #2
    I wouldn't mind having a discussion on this. I have only seen the premiere, and not familiar with what happens down the road with them (if anything), so I will only comment on the past - on her meeting John, who later becomes JtR.

    What I saw in Helen is a very compassionate, caring person - someone prone to be drawn (empathetically/sympathetically) to those she treats. She was young, this was her first patient, and she made the big mistake of 'getting involved'. Her heart overrode her brain, as it were.

    Now - why John? Well, as portrayed by Chris (who does such a nice job in making me feel sympathetic towards Todd, even under all those layers of make-up), John has a 'vulnerability' to him. Chris - through his facial expressions and the tone of his voice - manages to make the characters he plays, even Druitt, somewhat sympathetic characters. He has a charm about him, and therefore was the perfect actor for this role. He can be menacing AND charming - not many actors can be both. So, first of all, they chose the right actor. Second, Chris handled the character very well...very cold, and yet...NOT distant. I don't know any other way to put it. For as cold as Druitt was, I soon felt like I knew him, knew what he was feeling. This was all due to what I said before - expression and tone of voice - he made Druitt 'real'.

    So, that's about the actor, and how he made Druitt a sympathetic character, despite his brutality and coldness. Now, jumping into the fictional world, why would Helen be attracted to this man?

    Well, as I said before, she fell for a patient, a trap often experienced in these situations, especially for a young doctor not yet aware of the risks. Second, Druitt was charming. He was also intelligent (a nice compliment for an intelligent woman), and 'needy'...he needed her blood to live. In effect she 'fed' him, a very motherly thing to do, and something that often draws people together. There is a dependency, one which - in the beginning - may have been very appealing to Helen, drawing her closer to John. That is, until things started to go wrong.

    At least, that's how I see it, based on just one viewing and knowing nothing of the show otherwise. I may be totally wrong on this, but so far that's what I think.


    das
    Last edited by dasNdanger; October 6, 2008, 08:54 PM.
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      #3
      I think Helen and John are an interesting pairing. There is both this intense anger, fear and at one time love. They were engaged. He was her first patient. spoilers for the 2 hour pilot.
      Spoiler:
      She said he was near death and in an effort to "prolong his life" she gave him some of her blood and "it all went wrong". According to Helen she "spent all the intervening years trying to undo that mistake." I think part of her wished or hoped she could safe him. He is not only the patient she lost, but the love her life she couldn't save.

      Does she still care about him? Yeah I think part of her does. She cares for the man he used to be, the one she was engaged to 130 +/- years ago. It's possible they haven't seen each other since 1888 when she shot him in the alleyway. She had the embryo frozen for a 100 years and only brought Ashley to terms when she thought John was dead. She even said "forgive me John, after tainting her blood knowing it would cause him problems.
      . So it will be interesting now that he is back in Helen's life.
      Last edited by ann_sgcfan; October 6, 2008, 01:03 PM.

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        #4
        Originally posted by ann_sgcfan View Post
        So it will be interesting now that he is back in Helen's life.
        Mmm...indeed it will. I agree that there's such a mix of emotions between these two, love, anger, fear, I think on both their parts. And me being the hopeless romantic and fangirly shipper that I am think that there still is real love beneath all of the darker emotions, and perhaps entwined with them. I'm really excited to see how their relationship plays out through the series. I feel like helen has this determination to try and fix him, but he seems to be more focused on keeping going and going.

        I am so curious as to see the extent to which their feelings for each other will go. I remember the scene from the webseries where he actually held a knife to her throat, but I wonder if he would really be able to kill her. (Ok, aside from the fact that he kinda needs her alive. I mean on an emotional level). Some part of me wants to say he couldn't.

        One thing that I thought was very interesting in the pilot was ....
        Spoiler:
        ...Druitt's reaction when Helen told him that Ashley thought her father was dead. His immediate reaction seemed to be one of betrayal more than anything else, almost like he was angry that they'd had the opportunity to have a family but Helen refused to let it happen. (or maybe i'm just reading too much into that )

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          #5
          Originally posted by SciFi_Chick2012 View Post
          One thing that I thought was very interesting in the pilot was ....
          Spoiler:
          ...Druitt's reaction when Helen told him that Ashley thought her father was dead. His immediate reaction seemed to be one of betrayal more than anything else, almost like he was angry that they'd had the opportunity to have a family but Helen refused to let it happen. (or maybe i'm just reading too much into that )
          I thought that was interesting too.

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            #6
            Originally Posted by SciFi_Chick2012
            One thing that I thought was very interesting in the pilot was ....
            Spoiler:
            ...Druitt's reaction when Helen told him that Ashley thought her father was dead. His immediate reaction seemed to be one of betrayal more than anything else, almost like he was angry that they'd had the opportunity to have a family but Helen refused to let it happen. (or maybe i'm just reading too much into that )
            It will be interesting to see what happens between them throughout the season
            Spoiler:
            and if she can actually save himfrom himself .
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            (''For all Eternity'') Ripperette,MultishipperAmanda=Angel Magnett,Teslan,Willen

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              #7
              i find their relationship *so* interesting for mainly two reasons, 1-because jack-the-ripper is an interesting character and this is a new twist on him, and 2- amanda and chris are awesome actors and i can't help wanting to see them interact together.

              sally

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                #8
                Originally posted by majorsal View Post
                i find their relationship *so* interesting for mainly two reasons, 1-because jack-the-ripper is an interesting character and this is a new twist on him, and 2- amanda and chris are awesome actors and i can't help wanting to see them interact together.

                Indeed! I was re-watching some of the old webisodes the other night and there were a couple scenes in particular between those two that were just amazing emotion wise. Amanda and Chris are incredible...they capture the depth of their character's relationship, the sadness, the depravity...everything.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by SciFi_Chick2012 View Post
                  Indeed! I was re-watching some of the old webisodes the other night and there were a couple scenes in particular between those two that were just amazing emotion wise. Amanda and Chris are incredible...they capture the depth of their character's relationship, the sadness, the depravity...everything.
                  I agree their on-screen chemistry is amazing. Helen still obviously cares about him despite her hating what he has become. She sees the good in all people and creatures even the dangerous and evil ones. Webisode four was my favorite, the emotional scene in the warehouse with Ashley, Druitt, Helen was simply amazing some of the best acting and story-line in any series. The new blood twist in the TV series makes the relationship even more complicated.

                  Helen saved him, did her blood make him turn bad or did his powers as was suggested in the webisodes? When did Helen find out out John's murdering ways? Did she have a chance of killing him but failed to do so earlier? Interesting to see if any of the questions will be answered in the series and when. I wish we would have gotten a brand new episode this week instead of the Morrigan but I am looking forward to next week's episode.
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                  Thanks to lil ferrett for the picture

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by atfan View Post
                    I agree their on-screen chemistry is amazing. Helen still obviously cares about him despite her hating what he has become. She sees the good in all people and creatures even the dangerous and evil ones. Webisode four was my favorite, the emotional scene in the warehouse with Ashley, Druitt, Helen was simply amazing some of the best acting and story-line in any series. The new blood twist in the TV series makes the relationship even more complicated.

                    Helen saved him, did her blood make him turn bad or did his powers as was suggested in the webisodes? When did Helen find out out John's murdering ways? Did she have a chance of killing him but failed to do so earlier? Interesting to see if any of the questions will be answered in the series and when. I wish we would have gotten a brand new episode this week instead of the Morrigan but I am looking forward to next week's episode.
                    I agree, that scene in the warehouse was stunning. I hope they work that in somehow. It shows them so perfectly. Druitt keeps his creepy/dangerous demeanor, but also opens up when he talks about wanting his family. I love that random little bit where he's standing behind Helen and smelling her hair It shadows his old feelings for her, but also incorporates almost a creepy, possessive side to it.

                    In the scene of them in the pilot, one of the lines that stuck with me was him saying how he wanted a fraction of the peace they once had, or whatever the exact line was. The way he said it and the very fact that he said it lent a glimpse into just how lonely he is. One of the many reasons I think that he does still love Helen, though perhaps his mind is so far gone that he doesn't know how to deal with those type of feelings anymore.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by atfan View Post
                      I agree their on-screen chemistry is amazing. Helen still obviously cares about him despite her hating what he has become. She sees the good in all people and creatures even the dangerous and evil ones. Webisode four was my favorite, the emotional scene in the warehouse with Ashley, Druitt, Helen was simply amazing some of the best acting and story-line in any series. The new blood twist in the TV series makes the relationship even more complicated.

                      Helen saved him, did her blood make him turn bad or did his powers as was suggested in the webisodes? When did Helen find out out John's murdering ways? Did she have a chance of killing him but failed to do so earlier? Interesting to see if any of the questions will be answered in the series and when. I wish we would have gotten a brand new episode this week instead of the Morrigan but I am looking forward to next week's episode.
                      Having never seen the webisodes, I didn't know that the blood thing wasn't original. Ahh, very interesting. It makes those familiar with the webisodes wonder what lies ahead, I suppose, since outcomes may not be the same on tv as they were on the web.

                      I was under the impression that her blood - perhaps - triggered his powers, which - in turn - slowly began to deteriorate his brain. I might be wrong...I really know so little about the show and the characters, still much to learn.

                      Originally posted by SciFi_Chick2012 View Post
                      I agree, that scene in the warehouse was stunning. I hope they work that in somehow. It shows them so perfectly. Druitt keeps his creepy/dangerous demeanor, but also opens up when he talks about wanting his family. I love that random little bit where he's standing behind Helen and smelling her hair It shadows his old feelings for her, but also incorporates almost a creepy, possessive side to it.

                      In the scene of them in the pilot, one of the lines that stuck with me was him saying how he wanted a fraction of the peace they once had, or whatever the exact line was. The way he said it and the very fact that he said it lent a glimpse into just how lonely he is. One of the many reasons I think that he does still love Helen, though perhaps his mind is so far gone that he doesn't know how to deal with those type of feelings anymore.
                      Wow - from the way you guys talk, the warehouse scene is awesome - I really hope they keep it in.

                      Ya know, I only know Chris as Halling and Todd. I have seen him in Smallville and Blade Trinity, but since I'm not into Smallville (that's hubby's show), and his scene in Blade Trinity was brief, I really couldn't appreciate his abilities as an actor outside of some of the great things he's done with Todd. Still, for me, Todd's appeal went beyond the actor - it's his style of dress, his hair, his lovely pallid skin. So I was prepared to be unimpressed with John Druitt.

                      How wrong I was! Seeing Sanctuary for the first time two weeks ago, and 'meeting' John, has totally blown me away! Chris was fantastic. Just a total surprise for me. I'm not much into actors, mostly I'm just a fan of characters, without much interest in the guy under the makeup...I want to like the character, not gush over the actor. So, no matter who the actor is, if he can't make me connect to the character he portrays, well...then the character is of no interest to me. This is a problem I have with Christian Bale...for some reason, and for as handsome as he is, I just can't find any connection to his characters. He just doesn't make me feel for them.

                      But Chris instantly made me feel for John Druitt.

                      "You have no idea what it's been like. Alone, wandering this godforsaken world, wanting only peace. A fragment of what we had; what I lost."

                      *dies* The quiver in his voice, the pain in his expression...Druitt went from cold-hearted to 'pained' in an instant, and that's enough for me - when I see the character's pain, his inner struggles - I'm sold. Like Todd, John suddenly became the most beautiful thing on the screen...I just loved watching him, and almost hated caring for him because, afterall...he IS the bad guy, and that can't bode well for him at all. I have gone back and rewatched his scenes with Helen and Ashley from the premiere several times now, and I'm just mesmerized by John. I canNOT wait to see what comes next!


                      das
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post
                        Wow - from the way you guys talk, the warehouse scene is awesome - I really hope they keep it in.

                        das
                        I don't think they will be able to use the scene as the story is so different. Webisode 4 was my favorite and that's because of this scene. It was so intense and all the actors brought their "A" game for it. If you want to see it, Webisode 4 is still on youtube and the warehouse scene is at the beginning.

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQpa8lCv55s

                        Chris is an awesome actor and I think he brings out the best in others working with him. Like you, I didn't appreciate his talent until I saw him in the Sanctuary webisodes.
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by JanSam View Post
                          I don't think they will be able to use the scene as the story is so different. Webisode 4 was my favorite and that's because of this scene. It was so intense and all the actors brought their "A" game for it. If you want to see it, Webisode 4 is still on youtube and the warehouse scene is at the beginning.

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQpa8lCv55s

                          Chris is an awesome actor and I think he brings out the best in others working with him. Like you, I didn't appreciate his talent until I saw him in the Sanctuary webisodes.

                          Oh. WOW. I swear, I'm falling more in love with Chris with each Druitt scene I see! And yeah - they basically did this scene in the premiere - reworked for that episode. Too many similiar elements to the warehouse scene. But...oh...my. Those two moments - when he smells Helen's hair, then kisses Ashley's head...chilling, and yet...very somethingicantsayoutloudinmixedcompany.

                          Thanks so much for sharing that with me.

                          das
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by dasNdanger View Post
                            Oh. WOW. I swear, I'm falling more in love with Chris with each Druitt scene I see! And yeah - they basically did this scene in the premiere - reworked for that episode. Too many similiar elements to the warehouse scene. But...oh...my. Those two moments - when he smells Helen's hair, then kisses Ashley's head...chilling, and yet...very somethingicantsayoutloudinmixedcompany.

                            Thanks so much for sharing that with me.

                            das
                            I loved that bit. He's an amazing actor, very well paired.

                            I really think Helen still carries a torch for him, but struggles to be pragmatic. What an impossible situation.

                            suse
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                            Mourning Sanctuary.
                            Thanks for the good times!

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by suse View Post
                              I loved that bit. He's an amazing actor, very well paired.

                              I really think Helen still carries a torch for him, but struggles to be pragmatic. What an impossible situation.

                              suse
                              Exactly...it's going to be so so interesting to see what happens when he shows up again...I can't wait! (and I really want to know what Helen did to him exactly at the end of the pilot...)

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