Death in Heaven (3412/812)

[BruTak]

My one big gripe is that the portrait of the Brigadier on the UNIT plane was a terrible likeness of dear ol' Nick Courtney.

As far as I could see, it was based on a publicity still from "Battlefield", but - honestly? - it made him look like Josef Stalin.

[Blencathra]

rkgardner2003 - I'm not entirely sure what Veterans Day is, but you can read about Remembrance Sunday here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Sunday

Count me as another that liked some parts of this but not others.

I found the parts with Clara and Danny's farewell, the Doctor's despair at not finding Gallifrey and Danny's final sacrifice in sending the boy back, to be both moving and powerful. I was surprised, but not totally shocked, at Osgood's death and I was touched to see "the Brig" for one last time, doing his duty.

I was amused by the Doctor adding about 7 sugars to his tea. Didn't the third Doctor do the same? And there was one part where Peter Capaldi did a gesture that was pure fourth Doctor.

The bits I didn't like... Once again the 12th Doctor is completely sidelined by Clara and Danny. Once upon a time the Doctor would have been two steps ahead, he would have formulated a plan and saved everyone. But in this episode he might as well not have been there for all the good he did. It was Clara and Danny who saved the earth and the Brigadier who saved Kate and dealt with Missy. Together Clara and Danny make the Doctor look like a secondary character in his own show. I have to admit my heart sank at the change to the opening credits. Danny has become the noble hero, whilst beside him the Doctor looks petty and inept. For goodness sake, Peter Capaldi is a brilliant, brilliant actor - give him something to do.

Like Sealurk I felt uncomfortable at the way death has been treated both in this episode and Dark Water, and like Sealurk I can't exactly say why. It felt disrespectful andf insensitive somehow. So while I enjoyed seeing the Brigadier save the day, I rather wish they had left him to rest in peace. I feel very confused by my feelings about it.

As for Missy, I had an idea based on something that I'd seen on the Doctor Who filming location website.

Spoiler:

When Danny shot the cybermen & saved Clara, the cybermen exploded.



But when the Brigadier shot Missy there wasn't even a puff of smoke. She seemed to disintegrate & then vanished.







Also, just slightly before she was shot, she moved backwards and stretched out her arms behind the gravestone.

So looking at this picture taken by a fan during filming

http://www.doctorwholocations.net/al...28103830474752

I wonder if there was a weeping angel cherub behind the headstone and Missy touched it a fraction of a second before the Brigadier shot her.

Perhaps we may get to see on Children in Need on Friday?

Brutak - I agree. It was a terrible portrait.

[BruTak]

Well, Blen, I suppose the Cybermen exploded because they're armoured, and Missy (apparently) disintegrated because she wasn't.

[Lucycat]

When Clara was walking through the cemetery there were a few angel statues and the Weeping Angles did come to my mind, but I guess that would have been too much with Cybermen and the Master. I can't believe that was the end of the Master, I'm sure she must have teleported away somehow.

Enjoyed hearing the phrase "Bowties are cool." again.

Question... so it was revealed that Missy was the one keeping the Doctor and Clara together, but what was the reason behind that? I don't remember what Missy said other than calling herself bananas over and over. And, geez, the most inept guards watching her! Did they not search her for weapons? And Osgood should have known better not to approach her like that. Made them all look stupid.

I was happy that Clara and Danny had a final farewell. If Clara was pregnant, which is a good prediction, then wouldn't the Doctor have known? He knew when Amy was pregnant with the whole pregnant/not pregnant mystery of the Amy doppelganger. I also think the Doctor knew Danny was dead, and Clara was referring to her unborn baby when she said she and Danny would be fine, she probably calls the child Danny (or Danielle) Jr.

Bring on the Christmas special! The special effect noise the creature used in the preview sounded familiar. Did anyone recognize it? I know I've heard it used before, but it could have been from another sci-fi show.

[GodAtum]

I was disappointed that Danny did not have a secret, I was very suspicious of him thoughtout the series.

[knowles2]

I was happy that Clara and Danny had a final farewell. If Clara was pregnant, which is a good prediction, then wouldn't the Doctor have known? He knew when Amy was pregnant with the whole pregnant/not pregnant mystery of the Amy doppelganger. I also think the Doctor knew Danny was dead, and Clara was referring to her unborn baby when she said she and Danny would be fine, she probably calls the child Danny (or Danielle) Jr.

They were both lying trying to make the other one feel better and they both knew they were lying to each other the whole time. She knows the doctor didn't find Gallifrey and the Doctor knows Danny didn't come back.

[jameshawking]

I keep seeing people upset that the episode on death like this the day before the UK honors its fallen veterans, but I see it as the opposite.

UNIT (humanity) recognizes its betters; the people who have fought for and saved them countless times (parallel for the military). Even the humble wish of the Brigadier, to be treated with the same respect as he treated the Doctor (the salute, and a metaphor for how soldiers are often ignored after the war). I may be reading too much into that, though.

The Doctor being a general, being forced to make excruciating decisions that change them. It even goes in line with the ideal "I will not ask a soldier to do something I wouldn't do" with him being willing to kill Missy himself, his own sacrifice to protect Clara (the protected population).

Danny Pink's "The promise of a soldier", that (excuse any false memories) "You will sleep safe tonight"

Complete discipline, selflessness and sacrifice for the human race (cybermen self-destruction)

Even the Brigadier coming back to save his daughter; their sacrifices will keep us safe for longer than we will really ever know.

I can't be the only one who sees the parallels as I do, and the demonstration of, well, greatness, that it puts at the feet of lost soldiers.

Literally.

[P-90_177]

I keep seeing people upset that the episode on death like this the day before the UK honors its fallen veterans, but I see it as the opposite.

UNIT (humanity) recognizes its betters; the people who have fought for and saved them countless times (parallel for the military). Even the humble wish of the Brigadier, to be treated with the same respect as he treated the Doctor (the salute, and a metaphor for how soldiers are often ignored after the war). I may be reading too much into that, though.

The Doctor being a general, being forced to make excruciating decisions that change them. It even goes in line with the ideal "I will not ask a soldier to do something I wouldn't do" with him being willing to kill Missy himself, his own sacrifice to protect Clara (the protected population).

Danny Pink's "The promise of a soldier", that (excuse any false memories) "You will sleep safe tonight"

Complete discipline, selflessness and sacrifice for the human race (cybermen self-destruction)

Even the Brigadier coming back to save his daughter; their sacrifices will keep us safe for longer than we will really ever know.

I can't be the only one who sees the parallels as I do, and the demonstration of, well, greatness, that it puts at the feet of lost soldiers.

Literally.

I agree. And very well put.

[Rufus185]

If the doctor is mainly anti-military that is probably a good thing, as too many shows tend to over glorify them. Easily done as in principle their jobs are more interesting of those of accountants.

However, this ep seemed to show some genuine respect with Danny leading his 'army' to sacrifice and the doctor saluting the brigader

[Matt G]

1. So...Clara was just pulling a fast one...still, will miss her.

2. Yes Missy was nuts but so was JOhn Simm's Master. Wouldn't mind seeing her again though.

3. Cyber-Danny...very cool.

4. President Doctor. Had to laugh.

Generally...one hell of a way to end the season...not sure WTF they are doing with Father Christmas though!

[Rufus185]

just so long as they don't bring back Frank Skinner to replace Clara!!!

[P-90_177]

just so long as they don't bring back Frank Skinner to replace Clara!!!

Actually, that would be awesome!

[knowles2]

just so long as they don't bring back Frank Skinner to replace Clara!!!

That would be pretty cool.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

So Missy was the one who got The Doctor and Clara together.. But what I still don't understand is why.. Did I miss the explanation of why it was so important to Missy to get them together? Other than "control freak Assistant with The Doctor who doesn't like to be controlled"?

If that's all it was they could have kept Donna a bit longer

[Rufus185]

So Missy was the one who got The Doctor and Clara together.. But what I still don't understand is why.. Did I miss the explanation of why it was so important to Missy to get them together? Other than "control freak Assistant with The Doctor who doesn't like to be controlled"?

If that's all it was they could have kept Donna a bit longer

it does seem a convoluted way just to have brought him to 'hell'. Though given the entire plan with the cybermen was to give the Doctor an army, it also does not make much sense she was happy enough to see him plummet to his doom at one stage