Death in Heaven (3412/812)

[knowles2]

wtf what just happened? was missy the master and how did she come back from the dead?

She didn't come back from the dead, she escape Gallifrey and Rassilon and the Timelords and escaped from wherever Gallifrey was sent to The Time of the Doctor, probably at the cost of his life which is why he regenerated into Missy. The master was still alive when he went through that portal in The End of Time, .

Of cause there the little mystery of where the Master Tardis is or what ever device he use to escape Gallifrey.

[knowles2]

Oh, and I presume we're all agreeing that Missy teleported away at the end, and wasn't "killed" by her own device?

Actually she was shot by the Brigadier using a Cyberman weapon. An it quite clear how she reacted at the end when the doctor was going to pull the trigger on her weapon that she had no way out which is why she tried to talk the doctor down and delay him pulling the trigger.

[Quizziard]

I don't deny (in hindsight) it looks like she was shot by Cyber Brigadier. But the effects were for her teleport, and didn't match those of the (admittedly little seen) cyber-weapons.

[Coco Pops]

They didn't kill the Master....... It was the blue transmat beam not the red one.

Overall I think this was a great episode even if it conjures mixed feelings. I loved it.

Wow what an episode?

Clara was going to use the killer iphone to zap Missy to bits so she must have figured out the red setting, but the Doctor intervenes and instead uses the blue transmat setting..

Sorry I saw that as a bit of a cop out.

Of course had that not happened the Master would be dead for good I suspect.

Did love the scenes in the cemetery. I thought there was more James Bond type music in the fall from the plane, sounded different to the trailer..

Nothing. No Galifrey. She lied.... Not surprised. But that raw emotion and all from the Doctor. That was brilliant.

But why smash the poor console? Poor TARDIS...

So much to stew on......

Santa Clause, Really? knocking on the door in mid flight? Really..... I know kids show but this is just stupid.

EDIT:

BTW plot point..

How did Clara get so much knowledge about Galifrey, its locaion and the Doctor to try and fool the Cybermen?

[Baron Of Hell]

Didn't really care for this episode which surprised me since I thought the first part was great. There were some moments I really liked. Really liked Missy as the new master and her Mary Poppins like ways. I loved Danny in this episode. His sacrifice was great.

Didn't like the fake Missy death scene or that doctor seems to believe she is dead. They couldn't have made it more obvious she teleported away. Same green energy that looks nothing like the regular cybermen weapon fire that we seen when cyberman Danny blasted those cybermen. I guess they wanted a easy way to explain her shocking return that would only shock a child. With that said I hated that they didn't explain how she escaped whatever dimension Gallifrey was trapped in. The fact that she escapes opens up a hundred questions. Did anyone else escape? Where she get that Tardis? Did any of the bad things attacking Gallifrey escape with Missy? Then I just didn't care for the crazy plot. Missy creates a army for the doctor because she thinks that will make him her friend again. The master is crazy but not being played that crazy. This reminds of the show Defiance where they have one guy come up the craziest plans so he can date a girl. All he has to do is ask her out. All the master has to do is tell the doctor where Gallifrey is. Then the doctor as president of the world was just dumb.

Some of the interesting things are that Clara is almost certainly pregnant. I actually like that they only hinted at it. I kind of liked Clara and the doctor lying to each other at the end. I actually think the doctor got Missy's message wrong.

Any way this season was up and down. I liked half the episode and hated the other half.

[Coco Pops]

Didn't really care for this episode which surprised me since I thought the first part was great. There were some moments I really liked. Really liked Missy as the new master and her Mary Poppins like ways. I loved Danny in this episode. His sacrifice was great.

Didn't like the fake Missy death scene or that doctor seems to believe she is dead. They couldn't have made it more obvious she teleported away. Same green energy that looks nothing like the regular cybermen weapon fire that we seen when cyberman Danny blasted those cybermen. I guess they wanted a easy way to explain her shocking return that would only shock a child. With that said I hated that they didn't explain how she escaped whatever dimension Gallifrey was trapped in. The fact that she escapes opens up a hundred questions. Did anyone else escape? Where she get that Tardis? Did any of the bad things attacking Gallifrey escape with Missy? Then I just didn't care for the crazy plot. Missy creates a army for the doctor because she thinks that will make him her friend again. The master is crazy but not being played that crazy. This reminds of the show Defiance where they have one guy come up the craziest plans so he can date a girl. All he has to do is ask her out. All the master has to do is tell the doctor where Gallifrey is. Then the doctor as president of the world was just dumb.

Some of the interesting things are that Clara is almost certainly pregnant. I actually like that they only hinted at it. I kind of liked Clara and the doctor lying to each other at the end. I actually think the doctor got Missy's message wrong.

Any way this season was up and down. I liked half the episode and hated the other half.

Part 1 of the finale 9/10
Part 2 6/10

That's how I rated them, and it's always the same with these as part 1 turns out fantastic but the 2nd part just falls in a heap.

Oh and thank you for remininding me of Pottinger.. What a douchebag and did he survive, or did they really kill him off?

[Coco Pops]

The Masters plans are always too showy and flashy..... Especially in new Who.........

A real nemesis would have enacted their plan already without all the posturing and grand standing..

[Nth Chevron]

Intelligence doesn't sell these days

[GodAtum]

So we got it all wrong, Clara is really Clara?

[Coco Pops]

So we got it all wrong, Clara is really Clara?

And Santa is real....... :/

I have very mixed feelings about this two parter.

[Sealurk]

The more I think about it, the more I dislike this story. I won't deny there were some great moments and lines, but on the whole, now I've had time to properly digest things, the more I dislike it.

The subject matter made me a little uncomfortable for reasons I couldn't quite articulate, and I'm not easily bothered. Death is a tricky and touchy subject for most people, so there is always going to be an issue there. However, for a programme airing one day before Remembrance Sunday the idea of the dead being raised and turned into a hostile army of cybermen strikes me as a little tacky and thoughtless, especially when combined with the Doctor's aversion to soldiers.

Am I overthinking this, overreacting or is this a valid concern?

[Coco Pops]

The more I think about it, the more I dislike this story. I won't deny there were some great moments and lines, but on the whole, now I've had time to properly digest things, the more I dislike it.

The subject matter made me a little uncomfortable for reasons I couldn't quite articulate, and I'm not easily bothered. Death is a tricky and touchy subject for most people, so there is always going to be an issue there. However, for a programme airing one day before Remembrance Sunday the idea of the dead being raised and turned into a hostile army of cybermen strikes me as a little tacky and thoughtless, especially when combined with the Doctor's aversion to soldiers.

Am I overthinking this, overreacting or is this a valid concern?

I can wholly understand your sentiment........ I do think similar the more I think about the two parter.

And as I said part 1 was a definite 9/10 but the 2nd part just kind of goes everywhere..... 6/10 It had good moments but it just didn't gel for me fully.

[knowles2]

They didn't kill the Master....... It was the blue transmat beam not the red one.

The cybermen weapons in this episode were blue, see the scene where Danny is rescuing Clara his weapon fire at the cybermen was blue.

[rkgardner2003]

I guess I'm in the minority but I liked this episode, not loved it, but I thought it was good. I was pretty sure Missy got shot by the Brigadier.....

I didn't expect The Doctor to really find Gallifrey so that wasn't too surprising. His reaction was heart wrenching, as was Danny sending back that boy and sacrificing himself, that was the best moment of the episode.

I felt that Clara was going to tell The Doctor the truth until he seemed content after telling her he had found Gallifrey. She must be pregnant, hadn't they met Danny's descendants in the future, or is that all rewritten now?

I'm not sure what Remembrance Sunday is, sounds like it might be like our Veterans Day?

[Coco Pops]

One thing I remember that was mentioned in more then one episode..

Clara and her 3 mirrors.......

Was this some kind of plot that they thought might lead somewhere and just vanished?

It still lingers in my mind and I wondered why they even made a fuss of that?

One of the best scenes for me was the emotion of him finding she lied about Galifrey and then he smashes the console.... That felt really angry and raw. I loved that one scene. Also liked the bits with Clara and Mickey 2.0 I mean Danny.... Hell he feels like Mickey 2.0... Anyway those scenes were also good.