Journey's End (3013/413)

[Merlin's_Legacy]

Just had a thought on the "Everlasting death for the most faithful companion" thing... Might Caan have been referring to the Daleks???? The Daleks have been a fixture since the beginning. Just about every Doctor has had an encounter with them. The Doctor obviously has enough respect for them to offer them another chance (Daleks in Manhattan), and our Doctor chastised the half-human doctor for destroying them.

If the Daleks really are "the most faithful companion" then maybe this truly is the ultimate end for them.....

Thoughts?

[Coco Pops]

I'm surprised so many fans here are content with the towing the Earth scene.

On the Dr.Who list at yahoogroups that scene caused a lot of discontent and hate.

[gateship15]

i liked that toeing the earth and i like that the tardis is usually piloted with more then one person

[ijffdrie]

From what I can remember, I think it was because she didn't actually exist when the TARDIS decided to take things into its own...well it doesn't have hands, but you know what I mean. By going to that planet, Jenny was created, and the Doctor then needed to help her. So I think the paradox was that the TARDIS wanted the Doctor to help someone who didn't actually exist, meaning he had to create her first.

It's probably all to do with the wibbly wobbly timey-wimey...stuff.

it could all be explained by saying that the creation of Jenny was a set moment in time and thus always gonna happen

[Coco Pops]

it could all be explained by saying that the creation of Jenny was a set moment in time and thus always gonna happen

Which would make her "an immutable fact" or words to that effect to quote the Doctor.

Like Captain Jack Jenny is an inescapable fact.

[P-90_177]

Which would make her "an immutable fact" or words to that effect to quote the Doctor.

Like Captain Jack Jenny is an inescapable fact.

It's not quite the same thing. The event of Jenny's birth is a "fact" not Jenny herself.

[gateship15]

really what do u mean?

[Mr Prophet]

In Who, there are some things that have to happen, otherwise history goes kablooie. That's why the Doctor can meddle with some things, but not with others (although the distinction is largely arbitrary). Jack, on the other hand, is unchanging, almost outside time, which is just... wrong.

[Coco Pops]

In Who, there are some things that have to happen, otherwise history goes kablooie. That's why the Doctor can meddle with some things, but not with others (although the distinction is largely arbitrary). Jack, on the other hand, is unchanging, almost outside time, which is just... wrong.

And wouldn't we all like to be like Jack...Undying, immortal, and an inscrutable fact? I know I would.

But what happens when you are immortal at the end of the universe? And what did the Doctor mean in "The sound of drums" when he said to jack "do you want to die?" Did he have a solution for him?

[gateship15]

i don't know but if jack really is the face of boe him giving it to jack would change history wouldn't he. thank u for the explanation

[Coco Pops]

Just had a thought on the "Everlasting death for the most faithful companion" thing... Might Caan have been referring to the Daleks???? The Daleks have been a fixture since the beginning. Just about every Doctor has had an encounter with them. The Doctor obviously has enough respect for them to offer them another chance (Daleks in Manhattan), and our Doctor chastised the half-human doctor for destroying them.

If the Daleks really are "the most faithful companion" then maybe this truly is the ultimate end for them.....

Thoughts?

That's very interesting.....Mind if I borrow this idea? The Doctor Who list is quiet at the moment and maybe this could spice up some discussion

[gateship15]

it is an interesting thought

[Coco Pops]

Minor quibble with the plot, while I think - if the Daleks had detonated the reality bomb and made themselves the only race in existence... where would they have gone? There would have been no planets, nothing!!

I'm about to watch this again and that is something that bugs me too. What would they have done had they detonated the bomb and no one else is around to hassle? They'd have no purpose....

Also a real issue that bugs me.

How can the Daleks have stories and legends. It strikes me rather odd that a race this hell bent on destruction would find the spare time to make stories and legends about the Doctor.

[gateship15]

well the Daleks would want every dalek to know of the doctor because they fear him right so maybe when it comes to him they have to have storys as a warning to all of there race about the doctor

[P-90_177]

I'm about to watch this again and that is something that bugs me too. What would they have done had they detonated the bomb and no one else is around to hassle? They'd have no purpose....

Also a real issue that bugs me.

How can the Daleks have stories and legends. It strikes me rather odd that a race this hell bent on destruction would find the spare time to make stories and legends about the Doctor.

There would be nothing to make the daleks happier. They are the ultimate racists. All they want is what they consider genetic perfection. That being them. If all was left in the universe was themselves, in their minds, they would have been perfectly happy....

Well I actually find it interesting to think that they have myths and legends. They are a civilisation spanning millenia. Maybe they do have some sort of culture beyond killing the genetically impure.