Journey's End (3013/413)

[Madeleine]

But he didn't say, "Btw, I shut the TARDIS door on Donna." There isn't really any literal/metaphorical dichotomy to be had. What I'm wondering is, if Caan is not the weaver of the pattern identified by Human!Doctor, who do viewers who think otherwise think is?

I reckon the pattern wove itself around Donna, because of Donna. She was 'special' and she had this unique destiny. Rose finding Donna's specialness all over the timeline wasn't about anything Caan did, I reckon, it was about Donna and what she was going to become. And even though her ultimate fate was only one of many possibilities, it was such a big deal that it exerted an influence on the timeline anyway. Sort of like Jenny was only a possibility, at the point that everyone got into the Tardis after the Sontaran thing; but just the possibility of her was such a big deal that the Tardis went to where she would be created, so that she could be created.

Maybe someone else did shut the door at that moment, but I can't think who fits that role given the narrative we have before us.

Probably the Tardis itself. Whether it's conscious in any way or not, it's not just a box, after all; it is psychic enough to know that a snap of the fingers means 'shut', and it does have a tendency to follow its own agenda (viz turning up in Cardiff instead of London, or on the wrong part of New Earth, because 'weirdness' was afoot) and it's even been known to respond prematurely to the necessities of wibbley wobbley timey wimey stuff (viz turning up ready for the Doctor to have his cells turned into a daughter, because the very fact of the daughter existing in the future drew the Tardis there, even though the daughter hadn't happenned yet.)

[huntress]

I also think it was the TARDIS itself that closed the doors. I do think it is conscious. She decided to help Rose instead of rendering her mad as a punishment for looking straight at her heart. It was her way of helpong the doctor or turned the Slitheen back into an egg and gave her a second chance. Even the Enterprise D developed a consciousness so why shouldn't the TARDIS? She is after all much, much older then the Enterprise. Also in the movie the TARDIS revived those people at the end it was certainly not the doctor doing it.

[Madeleine]

I do think it is conscious. She... turned the Slitheen back into an egg and gave her a second chance.

Fair point, you're probably right.

[Bob790]

I just rewatched this episode and something suddenly occurred to me.

one: (pronoun) (...) 3 third person sing. used to refer to the speaker, or any person, as representing people in general.

What if Caan's "One will die" was referring to his own death?

[huntress]

I just rewatched this episode and something suddenly occurred to me.



What if Caan's "One will die" was referring to his own death?

You are not alone there. That also occured to me too but Caan wasn't a companion. Caans role was weird. He is clearly the enemy yet he helped the doctor over time and space to distroy his own kind because he hated what Davros has created but he also still hates the doctor and is gleeful about the demise of a companion.

[Bob790]

You are not alone there. That also occured to me too but Caan wasn't a companion. Caan's role was weird. He is clearly the enemy yet he helped the doctor over time and space to destroy his own kind because he hated what Davros has created but he also still hates the doctor and is gleeful about the demise of a companion.

He didn't say that a companion would die (at least I didn't notice it Journey's end. He said "One will die" which as my dictionary quote made clear, could have been a self referential pronoun, meaning that he was just trying to trick Davros. "The children of time have gathered and one will die," is a great piece of deceptive word play. (I know RTD never uses word play to fool people but...)

[Reefgirl]

Who said that 'The Children of Time' exclusivly meant the Companions, Children of Time could have meant the Daleks too, the phrase covers a lot of ground

[Alipeeps]

He didn't say that a companion would die (at least I didn't notice it Journey's end. He said "One will die" which as my dictionary quote made clear, could have been a self referential pronoun, meaning that he was just trying to trick Davros. "The children of time have gathered and one will die," is a great piece of deceptive word play. (I know RTD never uses word play to fool people but...)

He also sais "everlasting death for the most faithful companion" (back in The Stolen Earth I think) which is pretty unambiguously about one of the companions.

[lacourse]

I was sure it was going to be the TARDIS as well, which it almost was (and I'm really annoyed at Donna's fate!!), but as for the music, I can't help you. I've never heard it before on Who, but I expect it was another piece by Murray Gold, who as far as I am concerned has done wonders for the new series (I think his Gallifrey theme is amazing). It'll probably turn up on the season four soundtrack CD.

I did think towing Earth was one of the standout moments of the episode, something so jaw-droppingly huge only a Time Lord would even think of it, and positive to boot (rare in TV sci-fi, I think!), what with all the companions and the outcome. The music certainly suited it.

do you no the title of that track it sent shivers down my spine.

[Sealurk]

Not yet, as I don't think the soundtrack is going to be available for a while. However, if it's of any use or interest, its basically the same as the song the Ood sing at the end of Planet of the Ood, only much more dramatic and orchestral. It's a great piece of music - Murray Gold doing what he does best again.

[huntress]

It sucks that we will probably have to wait a year or a year and half until we will get the new soundtrack. Maybe ...just MAYBE the Beep will be really, really nice and allow a realease for Christmas. That would be grand. Maybe if enough people begged them?

[scarimor]

I reckon the pattern wove itself around Donna, because of Donna.

Aieee! A sentient pattern! *glances warily at my tartan cushion cover*

She was 'special' and she had this unique destiny. Rose finding Donna's specialness all over the timeline wasn't about anything Caan did, I reckon, it was about Donna and what she was going to become.

Oh I'm pretty sure that's true. Caan didn't create. In his own words, he helped.

And even though her ultimate fate was only one of many possibilities, it was such a big deal that it exerted an influence on the timeline anyway.

The notion of self-reflexive potentialTM is quite a nice scary one. I think I like it. I mean, the implications - what you could do with that in story-telling terms... *dreams*...

Probably the Tardis itself. Whether it's conscious in any way or not, it's not just a box, after all; it is psychic enough to know that a snap of the fingers means 'shut',...

I have a vague memory of the Doctor describing the TARDIS as sentient.

Anyway, I still say that the Doctor's handy hand snapped its fingers

[Alipeeps]

Anyway, I still say that the Doctor's handy hand snapped its fingers

His handy spare hand.

[scarimor]

His handy spare hand.

Hand in vitro

[P-90_177]

It sucks that we will probably have to wait a year or a year and half until we will get the new soundtrack. Maybe ...just MAYBE the Beep will be really, really nice and allow a realease for Christmas. That would be grand. Maybe if enough people begged them?

why do we? season 3 soundtrack came out just before christmas as i recall.