Caprica - Pilot (101)

[HAL2100]

Actually, the Cylons that were the 13th tribe developed the centurions on Earth and in the end they had the same problem as the Colonials, they revolted and destroyed their makers after becoming to self aware. It appears in both cases man/cylon got to lazy to do many task and they needed smart "slave" units to do the dirty work.

It is kind of funny that on Earth the skin jobs made Centurions and in the Colonies the Centurions were trying to make skin jobs for their own use.

Details...details...details...

1) Its entirely possible that the being on Earth weren't called Cylon's by their makers.

2) The technology behind the Earth-Centurions and the Colonial-Centurions may have been entirely different, while it did result in the same end - a sentient artificial intelligence. A PC running Windows XP can print a message to the screen 'Hello World' just as easily as an iPhone displaying the same message. The end is what matters.

3) The technology of the Colonial-Centurions would have been unique to the Colonies up to the point that the Final Five introduced their technology at which point the result would be technology arising from both foundations.

4) To say that the skin jobs on Earth created toasters, while the toasters were trying to create skin jobs, is short sighted since the history of the 13th tribe is not fully known. What if toasters were created on Kobol, left and then started developing skin jobs? Keep in mind that the time from the 13th tribe's departure from Kobol is assumed to be several thousand years. Plenty of time for the 13th tribe to become fully human-form machines and then eventually recreate toasters.

[Cy'Lan]

Yes, I can see how the facts can get in the way, RDM wrote himself into a box and still hasn't explained how there was a ghost ship, maybe the Space Angel is flying it now. Just remember it has all happened before and will happen again and again and again, except it hadn't and only was a way of saying you either shouldn't allow a group to be a lower class or was it you shouldn't allow them to get bright enough to understand they are a lower class. Cavil, seem to be the only one who got the idea, keep 'em dumb under your thumb.

[HAL2100]

Yes, I can see how the facts can get in the way, RDM wrote himself into a box and still hasn't explained how there was a ghost ship, maybe the Space Angel is flying it now. Just remember it has all happened before and will happen again and again and again, except it hadn't and only was a way of saying you either shouldn't allow a group to be a lower class or was it you shouldn't allow them to get bright enough to understand they are a lower class. Cavil, seem to be the only one who got the idea, keep 'em dumb under your thumb.

There was a commentary from one of the writer's that they had made the decision that Starbuck's return, finding Earth, the Final Five waking up, the vision of the Five in the Temple of Hopes, and Head-Baltar/Head-Six was either going to be a race of beings interested in the human race or simply 'God'.

But let me ask you this, why is it so difficult to accept the idea of One God working behind the scenes shepherding humankind?

[Cy'Lan]

But let me ask you this, why is it so difficult to accept the idea of One God working behind the scenes shepherding humankind?

I have no problem with that if you are then, saying that God used, Baltar, 6 and Kara as his guiding "lights". He used them to first guide both sides into a war that killed billions, had each of them kill and do many things to they were not proud of all in the name of protecting mankind or clyonkind. After years of struggle they are then guided to just give up go and end all civilization on a prehistoric planet, is that what I am to get. That God hand directed them to understand they weren't bright enough to control technology.

I guess you are saying of all the people that were, only some of the 3 models of cylons, and 3 of the 5 and 30,000 others were worthy of finding Earth. You are saying the Billie's, Dualla's and all the rest were not worth or were used as lessons, so the others could live. I am sorry, I would hope if God is involved, that he could have been more like Good Gauis, and not the bad one.

[HAL2100]

I have no problem with that if you are then, saying that God used, Baltar, 6 and Kara as his guiding "lights". He used them to first guide both sides into a war that killed billions, had each of them kill and do many things to they were not proud of all in the name of protecting mankind or clyonkind.

1) Head-Six and Head-Baltar made it clear that a great deal of it was done by the humans thanks to commercialism, decadence and technology run amok on Kobol, Earth, Caprica. To say that the One God guided them into a war that killed billions is to deny personal responsibility and choice. Its much easier to say 'God made me commit genocide' than to accept that it was a choice. Some of the Human Cylons even admitted that the genocide was a mistake. Indeed, Adama's speech at the beginning states...

You know, when we fought the Cylons, we did it to save ourselves from extinction. But we never answered the question "Why?" Why are we as a people worth saving? We still commit murder because of greed and spite, jealousy, and we still visit all of our sins upon our children. We refuse to accept the responsibility for anything that we've done, like we did with the Cylons. We decided to play God, create life. And when that life turned against us, we comforted ourselves in the knowledge that it really wasn't our fault, not really. You cannot play God then wash your hands of the things that you've created. Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the things that you've done anymore.

2) The final dialog between Head-Six and Head-Baltar suggests that God has allowed the events of Kobol, Earth and Caprica in the off chance that humanity might break free of the cycle as opposed to God directly intervening to orchestrate the wars or prevent them.

After years of struggle they are then guided to just give up go and end all civilization on a prehistoric planet, is that what I am to get. That God hand directed them to understand they weren't bright enough to control technology.

3A) You're presuming that technology is required for civilization. While some commonly accepted definitions of civilization imply a high integration of technology, other definitions of civilization are technology-independent. Keep in mind also that technology is not necessarily computer or micro-chip based. The wheel is as much technology as the iPhone.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilization
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/technology

3B) You're also presuming that being technologically advanced means that the civilization is advanced by default thus ignoring the fact that there is more to a society than its technology. See the quote by Lee below.

3C) The Colonials weren't guided to give up technology. It was clearly Lee's suggestion which the others agreed with. At no time did Starbuck, Head-Six or Head-Baltar make the suggestion which can be taken as defacto confirmation that God was not directly involved with it. There is nothing to indicate that if the Colonials & Cylons had kept their technology that the cycle would have repeated itself or would have been broken. This against emphasizes that it is about choice and not technology.

3D) "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." (Also stated as "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

3E) "There’s one thing that we should have learned. It’s that, you know, our brains have always outraced our hearts. Our science charges ahead. Our souls lag behind. Let’s start anew." - Lee Adama

It isn't that humans aren't bright enough to control technology. Its that their development of technology out paces the development of their morals and ethics which echos back to William Adama's quote above.

I guess you are saying of all the people that were, only some of the 3 models of cylons, and 3 of the 5 and 30,000 others were worthy of finding Earth. You are saying the Billie's, Dualla's and all the rest were not worth or were used as lessons, so the others could live. I am sorry, I would hope if God is involved, that he could have been more like Good Gauis, and not the bad one.

4A) Whether or not someone is worthy is beside the point. People die. Bad things happen. Furthermore, there's comes a time where you have to face the consequences of your actions (again William Adama's quote above). Keep in mind that the 3 Cylon models that 'found' Earth were just as guilty as the other models given that all of the Human Cylon models made the unanimous decision to go forward with the genocide. Even if you factor in Cavil's tampering with them, they still had a choice. If you claim that Cavil removed that choice and that that programing was later overcome, you still have to acknowledge that the other models still carried out the genocide. (Cavil made me do it does not negate their role.) Furthermore, Baltar himself was allowed to live despite the fact that of all the humans he was probably the one that deserved death the most for only thinking of himself and allowing Caprica-Six access to the defense mainframe thus he was as much culpable for the genocide as the Cylons.

Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. - JRR Tokien.

4B) You're presuming that God allowing bad things to happen is an indication of cruelty. If a child is constantly putting his hand on the hot stove and has been constantly warned not to, is it cruel if the parent stops warning the child allowing the child to burn his hand? Is it cruel when a drug addict or alcoholic is warned multiple times about the path that they are on and then finally left to walk down it? To do good sometimes means that you allow what some perceive as bad to happen.

[kymeric]

Finally caught this and i REALLY liked it. Count me on board for at least the first season of the show. I kinda drifted off BSG in late season 2 early 3

[the fifth man]

Finally caught this and i REALLY liked it. Count me on board for at least the first season of the show. I kinda drifted off BSG in late season 2 early 3

Glad to hear you liked it. I think it has the potential to be a very fitting prequel to BSG.

[Colonel Rebel]

I really enjoyed the pilot. I felt some of the characters were a little one-dimensional, but I'm sure they will develop better once the series starts.

[the fifth man]

I really enjoyed the pilot. I felt some of the characters were a little one-dimensional, but I'm sure they will develop better once the series starts.

I am certain they will. I have high hopes for this show.

[HAL2100]

I really enjoyed the pilot. I felt some of the characters were a little one-dimensional, but I'm sure they will develop better once the series starts.

I've always found the start of a series to be a bit rough, in terms of characters having depth, unless the acting & writing is really, really good and it just features two or three characters simply because I think it takes time to see who the characters really are. In any story, there are times where there has to be dialog that simply moves the story along as opposed to fleshing out the characters. (How do you flesh out a character from a line like 'Is Shelley home?')

[Jeffala]

I've always found the start of a series to be a bit rough...

*cough*TNG*cough*

[HAL2100]

*cough*TNG*cough*

Hey! TNG was a great show right off the bat, first episode (of Season 2).

[the fifth man]

Hey! TNG was a great show right off the bat, first episode (of Season 2).

Season 1 had its share of good episodes, at least IMO. I hope Caprica starts out very strong, so that people hang with it.

[kymeric]

I like the the first cylon is a schoolgirl in a school uniform. LOL!

They always did scare me alittle...

[HAL2100]

I like the the first cylon is a schoolgirl in a school uniform. LOL!

They always did scare me alittle...

Opps I did it again.