Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

[Gatefan1976]

You are in direct contradiction with God's prime directive. Isn't he the one doing the judging?

Welcome to hypocracy in religion 101.

[SGalisa]

You are in direct contradiction with God's prime directive. Isn't he the one doing the judging?

I am not in direct contradiction of what you stated. When I got disgusted with how my fellow Catholic neighbors were acting like hypocrits and treating other people harshly and basically bullying them, I personally walked away from the Catholic Church's list of *code of ethics* (which included "Mary worship") long before I ever walked out of that Church. I was stuck in there, because as long as I was living with my parents, I had to live by my parents "rules". And, I am being brutally honest, here.

So, during my own personal conversations with God (the Father, Son, & Holy Ghost / Spirit) in prayer, I sort of bargained with God about what would happen if I made my *own* "rules" or code of ethics up for living... Years later, I figured it was folly thinking, because somewhere along the way, I'd mess up and break a cherished "rule" I didn't really want to break, but did it any way. This happened long before I ever became "born-again" in the Biblical, dedicated sense with Jesus (Christ) at the helm with His Holy Spirit guiding me under God the Father... something like that.

So, my comment was based on personal experience. Plus, I have learned over the years that other people have basically said the same thing I just wrote... What if someone didn't know God or never heard of Jesus... then what? The answer they gave was what I just noted.

What if under "your own" ethics code they are not punishable offences?

See my reply to Chaka-Z0. The answer is there.

[Gatefan1976]

I am not in direct contradiction of what you stated. When I got disgusted with how my fellow Catholic neighbors were acting like hypocrits and treating other people harshly and basically bullying them, I personally walked away from the Catholic Church's list of *code of ethics* (which included "Mary worship") long before I ever walked out of that Church. I was stuck in there, because as long as I was living with my parents, I had to live by my parents "rules". And, I am being brutally honest, here.

So, during my own personal conversations with God (the Father, Son, & Holy Ghost / Spirit) in prayer, I sort of bargained with God about what would happen if I made my *own* "rules" or code of ethics up for living... Years later, I figured it was folly thinking, because somewhere along the way, I'd mess up and break a cherished "rule" I didn't really want to break, but did it any way. This happened long before I ever became "born-again" in the Biblical, dedicated sense with Jesus (Christ) at the helm with His Holy Spirit guiding me under God the Father... something like that.

So, my comment was based on personal experience. Plus, I have learned over the years that other people have basically said the same thing I just wrote... What if someone didn't know God or never heard of Jesus... then what? The answer they gave was what I just noted.



See my reply to Chaka-Z0. The answer is there.

Yes you are, and you admit it.
You are blaming one for having their own ethical code, by the standards -AND punishments- of your own.

[SGalisa]

Yes you are, and you admit it.
You are blaming one for having their own ethical code, by the standards -AND punishments- of your own.

Past tense. I stated That happened YEARS before I became a dedicated, "born-again" Christian, and started *trying* to live according to God's plan... not my way...
¿Comprende?


Now, as a generalized statement to some of the "issues" about *eternity* above... here is a little side trip for you all to *think* about. My *spiritual* life is NOT so rigid that I cannot discuss these other items. I am just not as well-versed in understanding them as other people are. Anywho...
Been planning for months to write about this, but kept getting distracted. So, if it sounds like one of those something that just popped up "out of the blue" skies above -- well, maybe it did. But perhaps now is just as good of a time to make some notes about it.

I probably should also add that in recent months, I was listening to some testimonies by people, where several of them were NOT Christian believers, but had NDE ("Near Death Experiences") similar to those who claimed to be "Christian". A few were devout atheists or agnostics, and some were so vigorously against Christians that they either strongly resented or hated Christians (and Jews), etc. These anti-Christian people flat-lined, some actually died, but they all (claimed that they) met Jesus / God in their NDE. Each of the people who had an NDE also mentioned about *being forgiven* and feeling "unconditional LOVE" in return, while meeting up with "God" or Jesus (depending on how they wrote their story. These NDE'rs all came back (to life) with a mission. They never explained what their ultimate *mission* was, but they had also become believers (in Jesus or God) thru those NDE moments, which I found extremely interesting.

So, apparently, (and as my own assessment of this (study*), it *is* entirely possible to be against believing in the Christian ways thruout one's life, temporarily "die" or flat-line and meet and talk with God. IDK...cannot explain beyond what I have written thus far. Each story had so many similarities to them, that the end result of comprehending what they saw, experienced, and decided to ultimately accomplish upon their return to their mortal bodies, was something that is difficult to explain. Or maybe we *should* take it at its face value, and simply accept that such moments can and do occur (in real life!).

Recently, I also actually met a lady (from another web forum) who had an NDE, and talked with her in person about her experience, and found her to be an amazing person. I wanted to hear her story! Plus, she and I discovered we both had (or share) a common interest with each other-- we are very fond of shelty/miniature collie dogs, and both of us had or have a cat with same coloring and same name! (how awesome is that???!). When "God/Jesus" brings certain people together, sometimes there are just too many parallels to simply discredit the encounter into sheer coincidence with nothing else behind it. ...NO...! This was *definitely* destiny... The dogs and cats were just a bonus treat for both of us! It was meant to be for us to meet. We were both astonished at the series of *WOW!!!* events that were woven together for us to meet, as we did. Pleasantly happy *jaw droppers*

As for the other NDE people, I've only gone thru a tiny portion of the testimonies. There were too many to read, and what I did read, I was simply overwhelmed from it all and had to stop to take a breather... Got involved with other things, since then, so I haven't finished reading the whole group, which I am sure should be as intriguing as the ones I have read.

Think whatever you all will about NDEs. I've heard many reasons for why they happen, and what causes them (the so-called "dream" or nightmare sequences), and meeting up with "the Almighty" (or some other entity persona), but this is something that may never be understood until we are dead-dead... Just hope it isn't too late by then. But, there are also those deathbed conversions that none of us will ever hear about in this life, since those are private, and happen in secret to the person facing death in those last moments without any further communication with other living souls on this side of eternity.

[Gatefan1976]

I comprehend you are moving the goal posts.

[SGalisa]

I comprehend you are moving the goal posts.

No. You (GF) are misunderstanding what *may be* an actual truth.

[Gatefan1976]

Nice and safe.
That's all you want.

[Annoyed]

*Innocent* as in never committed anything morally bad in your life?

(In hopes of gaining eternity into paradise...?)
I've heard that people who live by their own ethics code (and not any established "religious" system) will be judged by their own ethics code. So, if you broke your own code, even a few times in your life, you will be judged by your own *value* system. (That includes telling fibs, lies, or stealing minor things, etc.)

That doesn't track. Don't most if not all religions teach that you must follow that particular church's ethics code if you hope to achieve salvation?

[Chaka-Z0]

What about a Jelgate psychopath that believes dismembering people is ethically sound? Heaven for him too?

[Chaka-Z0]

Everytime I save a spider I try to make a mental note of that so I got arguments during the final judgment

[Annoyed]

Everytime I save a spider I try to make a mental note of that so I got arguments during the final judgment

That reminds me of something I deal with weekly in the summer.

I try to respect all life, for the simple reason that it's life. Unless something does something that justifies forfeiting its own life, it deserves to live. If possible, I'll capture & eject spiders and other insects from my home, rather than killing them.

Part of weekly chores in the summer is cutting the lawn. While doing so, I often see toads and such frantically hopping away from the lawn mower as it approaches. The motion catches my eye. If I see them, I'll stop and wait for them to get out of the way.

But I also know that I'm not going to see all of them, particularly in taller grass, and I always find myself hoping that there wasn't any small critters that I didn't see in the path. Sometimes they seem to think that staying motionless is a better way to avoid the large noisy predator that hopping away, and while I occasionally see one in time, they do blend in with the ground very well, and I'm sure that I've not seen some of them. There's nothing that I can do to prevent it, but it bothers me that toads and such are inadvertently killed as a result of cutting the lawn or other activities.

[aretood2]

Chaka, GF, SGalisa....

None of you are making any real sense, if you ask me. Well, SGalisa rarely makes sense (no offense intended).

SG's comments are empty in the way that she knows that what she is saying is off, so instead of looking into that and examining what she believes she displays a complex poorly choreographed set of mental gymnastics which just becomes canon fodder for all the anti-Christian resentment (irregardless of how justified it may or may not be, it is what it is) that comes out with nonsensical or illogical quibbs (I'm sure we can debate some of these quibbs ad infinitum). And all I see are a bunch of glass houses with broken walls, and stones everywhere.

Anyone care to explain why there is never a happy prophecy in religion? Idk like in 2243 humanity will be at peace and beer will be on tap in each household.

That's not entirely true. But yes, they are cyclical so there will always be destruction and death before rebirth. People just tend to focus on the destruction and death because people are butt holes. This is the nature of man and also the reason why the news ever only talks about bad things, because butt holes don't care about good happy things. For example, Mexico, the Media's favorite punching bag.

There's all this talk about how it is falling apart, doom, gloom, and so on. Yet no one mentions that Mexico has just gone through 18 whole years where there have been 4 free, open, and fair elections and 4 transfers of power and that the Mexican people are the only ones determining their own fate and controlling their own resources with no undue external interference. That situation has never happened in Mexican history, but every once in a while people mention that Mexico will soon be a failed state because...butt holes. Or how more than half (53%) now live above the poverty line when it was less just a few decades ago. Or how for the first time ever, former presidents don't feel the need to fun off to some country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with Mexico...or that protesters aren't being shot by the army...or that the media is actually pointing out the issues the country has instead of working as the Government's PR firm (the Mexican media that is).

In a sense, it's this butt hole phenomena that produces things like this thread. Death, gloom, destruction, conspiracy "Wake up sheeple!!!" and so on. It's why it's so easy to take a corporeal and literal understanding of things like the beast, the anti-Christ, stars falling from the sky, and horsemen of the apocalypse and fire breathing chinese trains...It's the spirit of butt holness.

The essence of the book of Revelations should be understood not from a nation state perspective (that's the Old Testament though I am sure Jews would beg to differ in a few areas with me here) but that of individual's and the spiritual battlefield and the spiritual lives each individual has. Sure there are some communal things, but within the context of that spiritual battlefield. As for what a spiritual battlefield is....I call that life. Life changes between generations. And it's okay, the idea that we don't have all the answers. I don't understand all of Revelations, a lot of it actually. No one I know who is honest on this does. Not my ministers, not the people I see in Church. And we are fine with that, because we understand that we will only know what we need to know and when the time is right. Maybe Chinese people will breath fire, smoke and sulfur for all I know and SGalisa can dance around saying "I told you so". Maybe Gog and Magog are foreign ideas (As in alien to God's will, not as in Russian or whatnot) and Israel is the individual Christian. Maybe it's something completely different.

But for many people, it's easier to think of the threat as very real and very current. It brings some calm, some clarity into what can appear to be a messed up and chaotic world. That doesn't really offend me as it appears to offend others. Plenty of Catholics think I will go to hell, but that doesn't offend me at all. I really can't understand why it would. I mean, unless they drive by your house every day saying "You'll burn and deserve to burn!!!" In which case I can understand that. But I have no imperative to make people believe as I do or to say that they are harmful for believing such things (with the exception of things like rape and stuff. Normally these exceptions are understood but I feel the need to point them out).

I'll tell you how I think the world will end.

I think things will progress as they are now. And at some point, it will all just stop. Like a shift where all of a sudden the barriers and walls that contain what we know about the universe around us will fall...or like say the heavens being rolled back like a scroll (Not sure if anyone other than SG will get the reference). History will stop, the dead will return, and many of the living will become something else. Then Judgement in a way we can't quite understand. And after that, a new existence will happen. And that's it. There's no knowing when or how or where. I think most of what happens in Revelations isn't a geopolitical commentary on events, but much more specific than that. Things meant for the individual.

I'll say one more thing. I don't think God cares about Geopolitics, pretty sure he doesn't differentiate the US government from the North Korean government. And unless you can point out which prophet guided Jews back into Palestine, I am not entirely sure even Israel gets the distinction of being seen differently by God. He certainly didn't favor the Judean government and didn't seem to mind when Rome assumed direct control either back during New Testament times.

[SGalisa]

Chaka, GF, SGalisa....

None of you are making any real sense, if you ask me. Well, SGalisa rarely makes sense (no offense intended).

SG's comments are empty in the way that she knows that what she is saying is off, so instead of looking into that and examining what she believes she displays a complex poorly choreographed set of mental gymnastics which just becomes canon fodder for all the anti-Christian resentment (irregardless of how justified it may or may not be, it is what it is) that comes out with nonsensical or illogical quibbs (I'm sure we can debate some of these quibbs ad infinitum). And all I see are a bunch of glass houses with broken walls, and stones everywhere.

Why *thank you* ...One of these days, you'll figure it out, because you just might see certain events (mentioned in the book of Revelation) actually happen... Until then, *future* life is still just a mystery...

I'll tell you how I think the world will end.

I think things will progress as they are now. And at some point, it will all just stop. Like a shift where all of a sudden the barriers and walls that contain what we know about the universe around us will fall...or like say the heavens being rolled back like a scroll (Not sure if anyone other than SG will get the reference). History will stop, the dead will return, and many of the living will become something else. Then Judgement in a way we can't quite understand. And after that, a new existence will happen. And that's it. There's no knowing when or how or where. I think most of what happens in Revelations isn't a geopolitical commentary on events, but much more specific than that. Things meant for the individual.

(I see prior to Rev.21-22) The book of Revelation basically reveals WHO the players are in each geographical location, that is, if the reader can figure out what that location actually is... And NO, God isn't playing *favorites*... just making notes of WHO's who and possibly where ...on earth or in the heavenlies...

I'll say one more thing. I don't think God cares about Geopolitics, pretty sure he doesn't differentiate the US government from the North Korean government. And unless you can point out which prophet guided Jews back into Palestine, I am not entirely sure even Israel gets the distinction of being seen differently by God. He certainly didn't favor the Judean government and didn't seem to mind when Rome assumed direct control either back during New Testament times.

Oh, aretood2, you are touching on opening up a hot can of proverbial worms...
Tho I do agree with certain portions you have stated, I don't have the time to explain right now. Sorry. Further discussion about this from my side will have to wait a bit longer... Been working on summaries about these very things for a very lonnnnnnng time, now. Just haven't pieced it into the proper words, yet.

There are a few more important items I think should be mentioned first.
Later.

[SGalisa]

What makes your religion right?
Are Bhuddist's liars?
Sikh's?
Pagan's?
Jews?

How many people will you condemn to feel you are "right"?

I'm not condemning anyone here. Just presenting the *evidence* as I have learned or discovered it...

Here is the rub SG.
IF you are right, and you interpretation of Christian prophetic text IS correct.....
Everyone else is either wrong, or damned. (probably both)

There is no "out" here, you believe, by default, that people who either defy "god's will", or believe in a different god are going to "hell" for want of a better term.

In a broader scope, why do people care about the damned?
Saving means converting, and if you won't convert, you stay damned, no matter how much personal sympathy you might have with someone.

You don't realise it, but you, by virtue of your beliefs are damning billions to hell.
The fact you don't see that is frankly, scary.
The fact that the organizations BEHIND such thinking, think that's ok and a way to treat people as less than human is absolutely terrifying.

Noting the above, as is, to toss a *curious* angle it with the below.

It's easy to chastise my comments. But would you say a similar chastisement against a hard-core, devout Muslim? Seriously? They do claim they have the FINAL say against ALL religions on this earth.
Yes, most people disregard Islam as the FINAL authority, etc., but Muslims do not. They take it very seriously...So seriously, that they are willing to kill (slaughter, in some situations) and lie to further their expansion of their "religion" and goals. Why aren't the Islamic people being confronted about their religious "agenda" for this world, and their political tactics that are being used to incorporate those goals into locations when they begin to increase in numbers against the native populations of other religions in those areas?

Listen to what Brigitte Gabriel has to say about her own Muslim neighbors... she has lived thru what they have been enforcing over many decades, if not centuries. There are others who have spoken up about these things, so heed what they are saying, since those people are the experts with Islam, specifically.


(Generic) You people here blast me for condemning you, even tho what I've shared in the past is what and how I was told / taught to share. Fine. I cannot change the past, as it can be erased from print, but cannot be removed from the actual timeline it occurred within. It is what I was *trained* to speak about when noting it straight out of the Bible. There is NO middle, wobbly ground and NO mincing of words there. Is it the ONLY truth? Or perhaps a better way to say this--- is it the ONLY source and way to explain how to gain entrance to an eternal paradise? IDK.

So let me just note the following tidbit... over the years, new info has come across my path, on understanding "what" may be closer to how people *might* be entering "eternity" without (ever) experiencing having the traditional "missionaries" reaching out to them, and thus offering them a choice (apart from these people meeting "God" in their own dreams or "visions") to believe or not. How they came to believe is not something I need to think about or dwell on. Just accept it, as is.

Besides the testimonies shared by NDE'rs who claim to have met Jesus in their NDE "death" experience... Here is an example about certain people dreaming (some medically minded people might regard this as "hallucinating while on drugs (or occurring during some illness)"...

There are testimonies of a select few, *chosen* Muslims, which have been circulating ...both on the internet and straight off the Christian *missionary* fields... specifying that some of these Muslims "claim" to have been approached by Jesus (Christ) in dreams. This is NOT the Jesus of their Quoran, whom Islam teaches their "Jesus" was never crucified, but lived and had a family... and went into heaven, but will return in the future to be killed...Thus, "Muhammad -- the Messenger of God", is more important than Jesus.
(BTW, the spelling of "Mohammed's" name, depends on who wrote it, which I don't know what the correct Name spelling is...too confusing, even Muslims write it differently..!)

Anywho... So... No, instead, the Jesus these (formerly Muslim) people have seen or met in their dreams is the one as described in the Judaeo-Christian Bible--this is the Jesus who was crucified and rose again, etc. These people were confronted in their dreams on their beliefs and denial of the Judaeo-Christian scriptures. They have since become *born-again* Christian believers, after their in-person dream encounters with Jesus, but keep their "Christianity" (beliefs in the Judaeo-Christian Bible) secret from the public and their own families.

People who were raised as Christians most of their entire life, would normally say that by keeping Jesus, as the "world's Messiah", a secret in their new life, would be considered as "hiding their light (of Jesus' and His WORD / truth) under a bushel" ... but in order for them to reach out to others about their new belief in "born-again" Christianity, they have to stay quiet, lest their own Islamic families and *brethren* oust them to be either *honor* killed or outright murdered.

It has been stated many times, by people who have actually communicated with Muslims, this is why some of the more devout Muslims TEST their own "believers" with committing an offense or crime that goes against the Ten Commandments given to Moses, because it proves how strong the faith of the newborn Christian (former Muslim) truly is.

This is important to remember, because it is believed that such a (similar) system of TESTing will be used during the time of the final Anti-Christ ruler (and system) on earth. People will be tested to prove their loyalty one way or another to either Jesus (thus, might end up slaughtered as martyrs for Christ), or be deemed *worthy* enough to remain living under the "Anti-Christ" system that will be enforced upon everyone (as possible) living on the whole earth at that time. In other words, this story is NOT over, until ALL of it is OVER. Expected time frame for it----is the latter half of a 7-year time frame, thus, about 3-and-1/2 years of "hell" on earth... or bliss, depending on WHO and HOW that person is being protected. Also, try to remember that certain Events occurring in Israel will mark as the key signals on when these things begin to happen.

[Chaka-Z0]

Can't quote because phone and walls of text but for the record I'm not making much sense on purpose

Feels like we're trying to convince a medieval man that the images in the tea cup are not omen of the future. And for the record I love your end of day scenario which sounds like zombie apocalypse (some will rise in something else).