Homeworld Defense

[Imgnryflagdotcom]

That's good and all.... nut one thing.

Spaceships and Ships are two very different things. And plus, if we were to build more ships, we would need more trinium, and we only have one trinium mine in opeartion, which means we'll need more trinium mines. In english, we won't have enough resources.

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

We'd find 'em. Not too much of a problem, that.

[zatniketel]

Isn't the stargate program already an integrated command? Admittedly the Air Force has taken the lead role in gate operations, but we have seen Navy Seal teams, US Marines and Air Force personnel all actively explore through the gate. Does anyone ever remember an Army team going through?

If earth is to defend itself, the optimist in me sees the need for an integrated nations command that takes from everyone's military and uses resources where they are needed the most. Say a Chinese general would command a composite fleet made up of American, Russian, and European BC-303's or whatever. A British Admiral could be in charge of a different composite fleet, and wings of F-302's from different countries would be assigned to carriers. Much like the navy rotates wings through carriers and back to shore based duty. As for helicopters, there would need to be a massive support system to keep them flying on another planet. I do think an alternative to beaming technology would be ideal for moving people and material between space and the surface. Perhaps something larger than a puddle jumper that had some hyperspace capability but could be carried be the Daedulus in her flight decks. Maybe with mission specific modules, like a space Humvee. As for building ships, why not park a space dock over Antarctica and beam completed modules up to the spacedock for final assembly?

[helio9]

So, why not get the US Navy, who have considerable experience in building large, combat vessels, in on the Stargate Program?

I'd just like to point out that considering that Anubis blew away an entire carrier battle group...I'm guessing the Navy isn't in the dark about the stargate program.

[immhotep]

Well, Hammond didn't do too badly. And the Air Force trains it's special forces guys in ground combat like Army Rangers and Navy SEALs. As for a fourth branch of the military, the SGC is practically that already. Just adding more of the other three branches into the SGC would be easier.

Now, I'd like to propose a weapons system for use against threat vessels. A modification of our current rail guns, with existing technology.

Have you ever heard of "Metal Storm?"

http://www.metalstorm.com/

Essentially, they build guns with multiple barrels, that fire stacked, electronically-ignited bullets. These weapons can reach firing rates of over a million rounds a minute.

Now, apply some of this technology to our rail guns. Stack rounds, fired electronically (maybe with an anti-gravity boost as well) in multiple barrels mounted in rotating turrets. We could literally put out hails of fire against enemy targets, easily decimating threat fighter formations. With a slightly-larger version of the Metal Storm rail gun system, you could do serious harm against capital ships, especially if the rounds had naquada-tips.

Thoughts?

I think this is where is going, when the time come the SGC will build some kind of naqudah feul cell, this will lead to them being able to power smaller, yet just as powerfull rail guns. handhelfd rail guns are on the way IMO.

As to adding extra firepower, i dont know why they havent used this rottating cylinder design, they could have say 15 rail guns in a cylinder surrounding the main rail gun. this could be powered by a seperate power source to make it reliable and then you could have main rail gun power surrounded by a hail of extra fire power.
also why not get orginary staff weapons, we must have millions! and find a way to fire them remotely, effective and powerfull energy weapon (& if used in greater numbers like formation blocks for point defence would be fast).
in fact with this we could upgrade to any of the old goauld weapons, from glider cannons to anubis superweapons. but of course the logistics of this would be imense and only really viable after public revelation...probley past the point when we'll be watching.

going back to the idea about personell on the ships. You have to remember that our fleet is tiny, we have 3 ships, including the orion, thats nothing, once we have 10-12 ships then they will have enough of a force to be worth reconsidering the organisation of the fleet.
most likely there will be a fleet command,where advisers or commanders frm the navy will monitor the ships themselves, while navy and air force personel man the ships themselves.
the army will probley take a greater role in gate opperations, or more likely take over the offworld sites, beta, gamma, mining ops and the like seeings as the have more experince of ground combat and operations.
the AE will still be air force/IC, remaining unchanged except by the rearngement of the ships personel form air force to air and navy force combined.
the orion will most likely be sent to earth ( if this was real life) wither by its own hyperdrive or by being towed via the deadalus ( we know asgard drives have that ability). this wont happen on the show because it would take from the SGA show. once agian highlighting the somewhat unrealistic strategic position TPTB are taking in comparion with what the real PTB would do.

[Seastallion]

There is another option concerning where to construct the ships... Do it offworld. Hear me out. In the long term, the offworld bases (such as the Alpha, Beta, and Gamma sites) are intended to eventually become Earth colonies. They are chosen largely for their viability as a new homeworld for the human race if worst comes to worst. This is why the SGC goes through so much trouble to build permanent infastructure. For instance, the Alpha site is built into a mountain much like the SGC itself is. They also have a permanent runway running right outside of the mountain. The Gamma site (before it was destroyed), was made up of permanent buildings, rather than aluminum buildings as we've seen on some offworld bases.

One of the biggest advantages to building the ships offworld, is you don't have to worry about secrecy from the general public. You can build the ships in plain sight without worrying about prying eyes. You can use the Stargate to transport the needed materials from where ever they are coming from. They might also build metallurgical refinery facilities, so that the Trinium and other metals won't need to go through the SGC at all. Granted, you would need to bring a lot more people from Earth to make such a facility possible, but since the Stargate is going to go public in the next few years anyways, select people might be allowed to bring their families with them to live offworld. (Assuming everyone in the immediate family agrees to sign a non-disclosure form. Childless couples might be the best first choices to allow through.) Such a massive scale of facilities would probably require a small town to be built to support it. This is not at all unusual however, because many bases (even relatively small ones) have small communities made up of military and related personnel. They would need homes, shops, a commisary, and other facilities.

In essence, Earths security needs would lead to the founding of its first offworld colonies. Eventually those small communities would become small cities, and other smaller towns would grow around them. By that point they'd already have their own tele-communications network, such as radio, television, phone lines, and Internet. The vast majority of the materials that can be completely pre-fabricated on Earth would continue to be shipped in, but technologies that can't be built by private companies on Earth for security reasons would be built at the offworld construction facilities.

Of course, by the time the Stargate IS made public, those offworld construction facilites will STILL be valuable. Their locations would protect them from misguided terrorist acts, and other security breaches. At that point, larger families (i.e.- with children) could be moved offworld, so that the people working there could stay for long term periods, rather than on a short term rotating basis, as is the case right now. Currently the offworld personnel are probably staying on 6 month rotating schedules, much like the military does with its personnel anyways. Marines often leave their families for about 6 months out of the year. They have no choice in the matter, it is just common Marine Corps. practice. With larger families able to travel through the gate, this would allow personnel to stay for years at a time, rather than months. Some of them might even decide to stay permanently, establishing the first permanent offworld colonies.

[immhotep]

I hear you, off world production is very logical and viable, however the IC and the SGC program doesnt have the funding to cope with large scale production offworld, they already contract out to the public for the BC's and 302's. Yes the off world sites would be the most logical explination and they may well be considering doing this.
the other option which has become apparent is the setting up of a tauri mini empire of worlds, im not surgesting we go terraform the galaxy to our specs but if we had say a dozen worlds, some farmed, some mined and some industrialised and one or two metropolis's then we would have the logistical and substantial infrastructure to increase all of the things earth is currently doing.
4 naquadah mines, 4 trinium mines, 3 shipsyards and 1 major administrative centre incombinations to the SGC/Earth would be able to not only be secret but productive within a decade. this is long term, and by then earth tech, with support from atlantis, the asgard and the coming fallout of the war with all of our enemies may well come about quicker.

[Seastallion]

I hear you, off world production is very logical and viable, however the IC and the SGC program doesnt have the funding to cope with large scale production offworld, they already contract out to the public for the BC's and 302's. Yes the off world sites would be the most logical explination and they may well be considering doing this.
the other option which has become apparent is the setting up of a tauri mini empire of worlds, im not surgesting we go terraform the galaxy to our specs but if we had say a dozen worlds, some farmed, some mined and some industrialised and one or two metropolis's then we would have the logistical and substantial infrastructure to increase all of the things earth is currently doing.
4 naquadah mines, 4 trinium mines, 3 shipsyards and 1 major administrative centre incombinations to the SGC/Earth would be able to not only be secret but productive within a decade. this is long term, and by then earth tech, with support from atlantis, the asgard and the coming fallout of the war with all of our enemies may well come about quicker.

I would think that offworld construction of ships would actually be cheaper than building them on Earth, as well as more secure. The reason I think this, is because to build them in secret on Earth would require considerable infrastructure construction in order to keep them hidden from public eyes. Although it is true that it would cost money to set up construction facilities offworld, it would not include camouflaged infrastructure to keep it hidden. The vast majority of the construction components and materials can still be brought in from Earth, where private companies can continue to be utilized to build parts and components for the ships. It really wouldn't cost any more to ship them to an onworld construction facility. They'd just have to be shipped to Colorado, and then sent through the stargate. From there, security would not be as much of an issue, because your virtually out of reach. Hell... if they're really worried about being seen shipping materials around the country, then all they need to do is use the Asgard transporter technology to ship them to Colorado instead of trucks and trains. If the Asgard beams can transport an entire sky scraper into space, I have no doubts that a few prefabaricated materials and components will be any sort of an issue. Not to mention way cheaper and faster. You don't have to pay for a driver, and gasoline for the long trips cross country. Just drive a tractor trailer into an isolated hanger somewhere, and beam the trailer to a Colorado hanger, with a waiting truck to carry the stuff to the SGC. Or just beam the stuff straight into the Gate room, right after it had been put into the trailer in the first place.

My point is, it wouldn't cost anymore to build the facilities offworld than onworld. All you have to do is send all the building supplies to Colorado, instead of someplace else on Earth. Also you wouldn't have the extra security issues to deal with, which also reduces your cost. Honestly, I think it would ultimately be cheaper to build offworld than on world. Less security related costs, which can be quite expensive over the long term. By this I mean that every structure related to construction of secret ships, would be geared towards security and stealth. To be able to build without such concerns means that you can go with more conventional facilities and equipment. You also wouldn't have to build giant cavernous facilities (such as the Prometheus was built in), to build the ships. You could simply build them out in the open, with temporary shelters over them to protect them from weather during construction. Once the ship was sufficiently constructed, they could be removed and the rest of the construction would involve the installation of the internal components. So... Like I said. Cheaper, and safer.

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Indeed. Construction of starships offworld is probably the safest and most secure method. However, it wouldn't hurt to have a few facilities on Earth as backups and drydocks.

Possible Construction Methods

I did conceive of the notion of building each large section of a starship in different areas all over the country (or planet, for that matter), then use, say, the Odyssey to beam each part into place in a secure hanger facility for final assembly. This method would eliminate the need for trucks, aircraft, or cargo vessels to move the parts around, and would make assembly much faster.

Another way is to build the sections of the ship on Earth, and as soon as they are done, have them beamed into a finished ship's computer (keeping the transporter patterns in their memory, if they can), the ship hyperspace-transiting to another planet, and beaming down the components for final assembly in that fashion. This method, however, is much more difficult than simple, final assembly on Earth. The finished ship can then use a cloaking device to lift off, or simply fly at night in black-out mode.

Building the ship's separate components like engines, the central hull, shields, and weapons on Earth saves money and resources by not building whole manufacturing facilities off-world. Though we're going to have to do that someday, for the moment, building on Earth is easier logistically.

The Making of a Starship

All of our spacecraft require these eleven things: engines, powerplant, life-support (atmosphere, inertial dampeners, and artificial gravity), hull, computers, sensors, weapons, crew support systems (bunks, food, recreation, hygiene, medicine), shields, communications, and the various distribution and support systems for these items (i.e. plumbing, ventilation, wiring, etc). As far as more specific components go, we'll use the Daedalus-class as an example.

The Daedalus-class starship, or BC-303 (or 304, depending upon your point of view), is composed of these seven primary sections: Central hull/main hyperdrives, main sublight drives/F-302 small recovery bays, main F-302 hangers/supplemental sublight drives, "main deck", and the "island". The outboard F-302 hanger pods in particular seem very modular. The bulging sections that hold the main sublight drives/F-302 small recovery bay modules also appear somewhat modular, but this is unconfirmed. The "main deck" and "island" are almost certainly modular.

Each section could easily be constructed in separate facilities across the continental United States. The main engine blocks would best be build at Area 51, while the central hull and hanger modules could be easily accomodated at several enclosed dry docks all along the East or West seaboards. The island structure could be put together in a large aircraft hangar, while the large main deck module could be built in a suitable drydock. Once all seven sections are complete, the final assembly facility (possibly the Prometheus drydock in Nevada) is prepped to receive the final parts thanks to the Odyssesy beaming them in. Like a crane operator, the Odyssey would have to beam each section carefully, starting from the bottom up, and exactly aligned with the section above, below, or to the side of it. Once this is done, workers could then manually connect every cable, pipe, wire, and bolt, securing the two modules together, before the next section is beamed down and also connected. After all this is done, final ground-testing of the vessel's systems, deployment of her crew, installation of her weapons, shields, and powerplant, can all commence. Once completed, the ship could then lift off and assume a stable orbit above the planet, beginning her shakedown cruise.

[Ludofjn]

We Need A Big Fleet With A Ship That Has Good Carrier Capasity

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Um... Thanks. Yes, I agree. [/Jack tone]

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

They should also try and develop a satellite defense system though thats kind of difficulty with the whole...secrecy thing. But still it would be useful rather then rely on ships to keep coming back to defend earth.

[immhotep]

Ive already put forward several designs for satalite defence's but in practice i know thwey would for the most part be unavalble prior to public revelation.
A satalite defence is a massive undertaking, before public revelation and even after it the best chance for a sataite defence would simply be atlantis, in the MW powered by 3 ZPM's or another powersource in orbit of earth. powerfull, advanced, and massive atlantis is an inhabited, powerfull and accessable satalite defence that could be put in place reletively easily.

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Well, we've been deploying satellites that were more than meets the eye for decades. During the Cold War, for instance, we deployed communications satellites that, in fact, monitored comms traffic between major Soviet military bases. As well as weather satellites that had cameras so advanced you could make out individual faces in a Moscow office building from low-orbit.

We could just put up a few early-warning satellites or armed space probes whose "true purpose" is to serve as communications sats or to do scientific surveys on the sun or gamma radiation from distant galaxies. We've used Hubble to track Gou'ald motherships in our solar system, after all. And we've got plenty of weapons developements we could "tack onto" our current satellites for some added defense.

Still, all of this is beans compared to the Ancient outpost as far as Earth's direct defense goes. Focusing on powering that up, without ZPMs, is as crucial as building more ships.

[norbe]

Still, all of this is beans compared to the Ancient outpost as far as Earth's direct defense goes. Focusing on powering that up, without ZPMs, is as crucial as building more ships.

Yes you are right, but we already know that the Mk2 Naquadah generators are enough to power the chair, that was proved in The Siege Part2.