Asgard Tech vs. Ancient Tech

[thekillman]

Well I dunno if it has been mentioned, but Thor said in one episode when O'Neill had the repository in his head the second time that the asgard had been studying the repository for a very long time and had bearly scratched the surface of what it contains. So while the asgard are an advanced race, I wouldn't put them up their with the ancients, perhaps in the past 10,000 years they have had made some considerable advances, some of that could be down to studying ancient tech and finding new applications of it or something.

unfortunately it's one of the most misquoted quotes. it wasn't to illustrate advancedness but size. the Repository holds some 50 million years of knowledge. that's a lot

[beire]

Complexity doesn't always mean superiority. I'm not denying the ingenius and inherently complicated designs of Ancient weapons and tech, and ultimately the Stargate, but that doesn't automatically make them better.

Socially I suppose that the Ancients were more advanced than the Asgard, but militarily I'd say that the Asgard have surpassed them. No, we haven't seen an Asgard shield as powerful as Atlantis' shield, even with the Oddy's ZPM. But the beam weapons own drones. BAMSR seemed to imply that drones don't penetrate all shields, and thus the hundreds of drones necessary to destroy a Hive (and presumably many more to take down an Asgard shield) pale in comparison to the ease with which a beam weapon can slice through a shield in only a few shots, and has a theoretically limitless endurance (as long as there's power).

Asgard beaming > Ancients

Asgard shields on ships > Ancients

Atlantis city shield > Asgard

ZPM's > Asgard (as far as we've seen at least).

Asgard weapons > Ancients

Ancient Holograms > Asgard

Asgard Hyperdrive = Ancients? We really haven't had much chance to compare the two. I doubt the Ancients were that much faster than ours.

Ancient travel >>>>>>>>>> Asgard.

Ancient Ascension >>>>>>>> Asgard cloning.

Ancients also seeded life throughout how many galaxies.

Exploration is where the Ancients obviously excelled, by far.

So militarily, I'd go with the Asgard. But socially, the Ancients wiped the floor.

Hey,

There are somethings i do not totally agree with
If you count in merlin's tech, then everything will be a lot different..
Asgard beaming > Ancients ?
In Episode Avalon 2 (9.01) Ancients had very nice beaming tech too (the treasure get beamed inside the cave)

Asgard shields on ships > Ancients ?
In episode No Man's Land (3.01) The only reason why the aurora shields failed is because they had to chose betweenpowering the shields or firing drones.

Asgard weapons > Ancients ?
I don't know that, the asgard beams are lovely but the Ancient drones are extremely powerfull if they use a lot at a time (see O'niel in Lost City, Part 2 (7.22) and No Man's Land (3.01)) and the defence satelites could cut a hive in two in just one hit (=stronger then asgard beams?)

Ancient Holograms > Asgard ?
Asgard can talk while in a hologram (see Carter in Revelations (5.22))
While the Ancient hologram tech in The Return, Part One (3.10) can speak but they can not hear what you say back.
Then again the Ancient Holograms can even kill others (see Avalon 2 (9.01))

[sman789]

I think we're missing a few key points here. Ancient weapons are a million times more devestating than Asgard ones. Take the Dakara weapon... plug in a ZPM and point it at Ida and say goodbye to the Asgard! Then there's the transporters, seen on the later episodes of SG1, which looked pretty much the same as Asgard beamers, though that's nothing we can really ever confirm. Then there's the Ancients' spontanious ascension devices, basically granting any individual the ability to wipe out the Asgard race with a click of their finger. Then the Atlantis shield which, face it, is better than anything the Asgard have. Then there's the Asurans, which if unleashed fully could have also beaten the Asgard with their ability to just reproduce and fight with Ancient knowledge.

I mean, beam weapons aren't even that great. Sure, they can take out a few older varients of the Aurora class. For all we know, the Aurora class could be a light cruiser, there's certainly no evidence to suggest that it's the primary class of warship or even that it is in the upper divisions. Also, according to Malozzi in his blog, the LA were able to upgrade their shields to be effective against beam weapons, so if the LA can do it, I'm sure the Ancients could.

We're also forgetting that the Ancients are now ascended and have a knowledge that is infinately greater than the Asgard. Also, Thor said they had only scratched the surface of the repository that they found, so it's a good bet that a lot of Asgard technology is just random bits 'n' bobs from the repo. We've seen next to nothing of the Ancients in their later peorid (After their return from Atlantis), but it's clear from the repository of knowledge, and how O'neill, one half-Ancient, was able to defeat the replicators after just a few minutes of thaught in a way the Asgard had never been able to do for years and took a while more to even understand after they got an ARG, that just before they ascended they had more knowledge and greater technology than when the Asgard died.

[beire]

Take the Dakara weapon... plug in a ZPM and point it at Ida and say goodbye to the Asgard!

The Asgard can probably shield them from that..? At least Adria could with her personal shield.

Then there's the transporters, seen on the later episodes of SG1, which looked pretty much the same as Asgard beamers, though that's nothing we can really ever confirm.

I also said that in my previous post but you have to know we have never seen this as Ancient tech, only as tech that Merlin made after being ascended so there is a good chance the Ancient's had no beaming tech at all.

Then there's the Ancients' spontanious ascension devices, basically granting any individual the ability to wipe out the Asgard race with a click of their finger.

They were not really 100% heh..

Then there's the Asurans, which if unleashed fully could have also beaten the Asgard with their ability to just reproduce and fight with Ancient knowledge.

There tech is a lot weaker then ancient tech.. Asgard beams go true their ships without any resistance.

We're also forgetting that the Ancients are now ascended and have a knowledge that is infinately greater than the Asgard.

The Ori are ascended too with "infinate" knowlage and still the asgard beams kicked their asses

For all we know, the Aurora class could be a light cruiser, there's certainly no evidence to suggest that it's the primary class of warship or even that it is in the upper divisions.

Yeah, for all we know the Asgard had 1000 Cityships 1000000 times stronger then Atlantis..

Also, according to Malozzi in his blog, the LA were able to upgrade their shields to be effective against beam weapons, so if the LA can do it, I'm sure the Ancients could.

Really? I did not know that, can you give me a link please? I'd love to read it!

Thor said they had only scratched the surface of the repository that they found, so it's a good bet that a lot of Asgard technology is just random bits 'n' bobs from the repo.

True but their is also a chance that they picked things like weapontechnology/hyperdrive/..(the things they had most intrest in) and improved it.

[sman789]

Just google Mallozzi's blog, it's in the mailbag section of one of the recent ones, but I have no idea which one it is, sorry

And Adria could shield against it because the Ori built the pendant to shield her from everything, it's probably the single most advanced shield in the universe. The Ori do have infinate knowledge, it's just that because of their followers' reletive primitiveness, they only tell them to build ships to do what they need doing to increse speed of production etc. The shields are designed to resist Tau'ri weapons and Ha'tak weapons, but they probably couldn't even see Ida so they couldn't see what was there - they didn't send priors.

The Ascension machines wern't 100%, true, but I bet they have a fairly high success rate and only one user actually has to ascend to make it worthwhile, and it's much less lives lost than in all out warfare.

The thing with the Asurans is that they were fighting as machines pretending to be Ancients. They only had like a week to adapt to Asgard weapons. But anyway, if they had faught as what they were, individual nanites that can take larger forms, they would have been virtually unstoppable. They could do everything the replicators and ancients could do, put together, plus the ability to enter the body and scatter and reform at will, and the only way the Asgard even beat the old replicators was by using Ancient knowledge!

[beire]

Just google Mallozzi's blog, it's in the mailbag section of one of the recent ones, but I have no idea which one it is, sorry

Can't find it :/
If someone can, please send me the link!

The Ascension machines wern't 100%, true, but I bet they have a fairly high success rate and only one user actually has to ascend to make it worthwhile, and it's much less lives lost than in all out warfare.

Yes that would hurt
But they never used their tech like that, they used it to ascend and get away from war and not use it to battle (because of their non interfering law or something like that)

The shields are designed to resist Tau'ri weapons and Ha'tak weapons, but they probably couldn't even see Ida so they couldn't see what was there - they didn't send priors.

They had Daniël and Vala for some time, i think they know everything that Daniel knew so then they should know earth has the Asgard as Ally's. So would'nt it be logical if they also made the shields work against more advanced weapons?

The thing with the Asurans is that they were fighting as machines pretending to be Ancients. They only had like a week to adapt to Asgard weapons. But anyway, if they had faught as what they were, individual nanites that can take larger forms, they would have been virtually unstoppable. They could do everything the replicators and ancients could do, put together, plus the ability to enter the body and scatter and reform at will, and the only way the Asgard even beat the old replicators was by using Ancient knowledge!

I know, that is the reason why i love the old replicators more, they used their tech a lot better, not using ships but making a ship out of blocks.. a lot more effective if you sask me

[thekillman]

If you count in merlin's tech, then everything will be a lot different..

merlin is an ascended.

Ancient weapons are a million times more devestating than Asgard ones.

asgard had no use for uberdevastating weapons. but that doesn't mean the asgard don't have the ability to do it.

the LA were able to upgrade their shields to be effective against beam weapons, so if the LA can do it, I'm sure the Ancients could.

considering the rather sudden change in weapons effectiveness regarding asgard tech, specific weapons are the asgard's speciality. also did it occur to you that the LA in their ambush probably took out the APBW's when the hammond didn't have it's shields raised?

[beire]

the LA were able to upgrade their shields to be effective against beam weapons, so if the LA can do it, I'm sure the Ancients could.

considering the rather sudden change in weapons effectiveness regarding asgard tech, specific weapons are the asgard's speciality. also did it occur to you that the LA in their ambush probably took out the APBW's when the hammond didn't have it's shields raised?

Yes i m also thinking that, or the Hammond does not have Asgard Beam weapons.. Because I have never seen the Hammond firing the Beam weapons.

If you count in merlin's tech, then everything will be a lot different..

merlin is an ascended.

I know that, that is why i said "if you count in merlin"
But now i think of it I have a question, when someone ascends you can not become all knowing? You maybe know what the other ascended Ancients (because they probably share the knowlage they have) but that should be it?
So if that is true then everything that Merlin made was made with Ancient tech?
Maybe a little off topic but i would love to know what everyone thinks of that

[Giantevilhead]

Hey,

There are somethings i do not totally agree with
If you count in merlin's tech, then everything will be a lot different..
Asgard beaming > Ancients ?
In Episode Avalon 2 (9.01) Ancients had very nice beaming tech too (the treasure get beamed inside the cave)

But that cave was built by Merlin, who had ascended knowledge. We never see any beaming tech from pre-ascended Ancients.

Asgard shields on ships > Ancients ?
In episode No Man's Land (3.01) The only reason why the aurora shields failed is because they had to chose betweenpowering the shields or firing drones.

The 304's are able to take a ton of damage from Ori, Wraith, and Asuran ships despite being a fraction of the size of Ancient ships. If shield technology scales well then an Asgard ship the same size of an Ancient ship would definitely be able to match or exceed Ancient shields.

Asgard weapons > Ancients ?
I don't know that, the asgard beams are lovely but the Ancient drones are extremely powerfull if they use a lot at a time (see O'niel in Lost City, Part 2 (7.22) and No Man's Land (3.01)) and the defence satelites could cut a hive in two in just one hit (=stronger then asgard beams?)

But the defense satellite was about the size of a Ha'tak while a 304 isn't even half that size and has half a dozen Asgard beams. We don't know what an Asgard weapon the size of the Ancient defense satellite can do.

Ancient Holograms > Asgard ?
Asgard can talk while in a hologram (see Carter in Revelations (5.22))
While the Ancient hologram tech in The Return, Part One (3.10) can speak but they can not hear what you say back.
Then again the Ancient Holograms can even kill others (see Avalon 2 (9.01))

Asgard holograms can create realistic illusions as we saw in Thor's Chariot. And again, the holographic knight was made by Merlin, who had ascended knowledge.

[beire]

But that cave was built by Merlin, who had ascended knowledge. We never see any beaming tech from pre-ascended Ancients.



The 304's are able to take a ton of damage from Ori, Wraith, and Asuran ships despite being a fraction of the size of Ancient ships. If shield technology scales well then an Asgard ship the same size of an Ancient ship would definitely be able to match or exceed Ancient shields.



But the defense satellite was about the size of a Ha'tak while a 304 isn't even half that size and has half a dozen Asgard beams. We don't know what an Asgard weapon the size of the Ancient defense satellite can do.



Asgard holograms can create realistic illusions as we saw in Thor's Chariot. And again, the holographic knight was made by Merlin, who had ascended knowledge.

I have to agree with all of what you just said
But there was i reason why i said "if you count in Merlin's tech".

My previous post:

I know that, that is why i said "if you count in merlin"
But now i think of it I have a question, when someone ascends you can not become all knowing? You maybe know what the other ascended Ancients (because they probably share the knowlage they have) but that should be it?
So if that is true then everything that Merlin made was made with Ancient tech?
Maybe a little off topic but i would love to know what everyone thinks of that.

I can not believe that, if you ascend, you suddenly know all there is to know about the universe/technology/... I think you just know everything that all the other ascended Ancients know because they maybe share it? So if that is true, then all Merlin's technology most have been made with Ancient tech
Please correct me if i'm wrong (and say why i am wrong)

Greets
Beire

[mickhhh]

I have to agree with all of what you just said
But there was i reason why i said "if you count in Merlin's tech".

My previous post:


I can not believe that, if you ascend, you suddenly know all there is to know about the universe/technology/... I think you just know everything that all the other ascended Ancients know because they maybe share it? So if that is true, then all Merlin's technology most have been made with Ancient tech
Please correct me if i'm wrong (and say why i am wrong)

Greets
Beire

when u ascend u do not become all knowing but u would become way smarter. beaming tech is probly very simple to them. merlin probly just created it him self.

[Mike.]

We never see any beaming tech from pre-ascended Ancients.

Atlantis has transporters all over the city.

If shield technology scales well then an Asgard ship the same size of an Ancient ship would definitely be able to match or exceed Ancient shields.

A shield is only as reliable as its powersource. Atlantis' shields that can take almost anything + ZPMs own anything else.

But the defense satellite was about the size of a Ha'tak while a 304 isn't even half that size and has half a dozen Asgard beams. We don't know what an Asgard weapon the size of the Ancient defense satellite can do.

Yeas, but can an Asgard weapon powered by a crappy Mark I naquadah generator so easily destroy a hive ?

Regarding the tech made by Merlin - while he may have had ascended knowledge, he himself was not ascended when he built it.
Besides, other ancients close to ascension (way before Merlin) would have also had the opportunity to invent new technology. Even McKay made significant breakthroughs in the time he had in that state.

[mickhhh]

Atlantis has transporters all over the city.



A shield is only as reliable as its powersource. Atlantis' shields that can take almost anything + ZPMs own anything else.



Yeas, but can an Asgard weapon powered by a crappy Mark I naquadah generator so easily destroy a hive ?

Regarding the tech made by Merlin - while he may have had ascended knowledge, he himself was not ascended when he built it.
Besides, other ancients close to ascension (way before Merlin) would have also had the opportunity to invent new technology. Even McKay made significant breakthroughs in the time he had in that state.

they are more like ring transporters.

been a power hoge is a bad thing.

304s have stronger shield than ancient ship without ZPMs. not atlantis but atlantis is in a different class to warships.

ascended or not he was not part of the ancient race anymore. its possible he built everything while he was ascended.

[Mike.]

they are more like ring transporters.

Still a transporter.

been a power hoge is a bad thing.

Yeah. That was the point. The ancient satellite was a very effective weapon considering the weak power source it had (mark I naquadah generator).

than ancient ship without ZPMs

Of course. But an Ancient ship with ZPMs has much more powerful shields.

not atlantis but atlantis is in a different class to warships.

Doesn't matter, it's still Ancient tech.

Ancient shields > any other shields.

ascended or not he was not part of the ancient race anymore.

He was still an Ancient. The fact that he was ascended some time ago didn't influence what species he was when he returned to a physical body.

its possible he built everything while he was ascended.

Ascended beings are not allowed to influence anything in our dimension. Noninterference and all that. He had to regain his corporeal form to build anything physical.

[Giantevilhead]

A shield is only as reliable as its powersource. Atlantis' shields that can take almost anything + ZPMs own anything else.

There is a matter of efficiency. A 304 can probably only generate a fraction of the power of a Hive and yet it can take more damage, travel faster at hyperspace, and have better weapons.

Yeas, but can an Asgard weapon powered by a crappy Mark I naquadah generator so easily destroy a hive ?

That's tough to answer since we don't know what kind of power source the 304's have. However, each 304 does have about half a dozen Asgard beams installed and it doesn't seem to cut into their power consumption that much.

Regarding the tech made by Merlin - while he may have had ascended knowledge, he himself was not ascended when he built it.
Besides, other ancients close to ascension (way before Merlin) would have also had the opportunity to invent new technology. Even McKay made significant breakthroughs in the time he had in that state.

But having ascended knowledge gives him a much bigger advantage. Orlin built a home made stargate.