'Pathogen' (204) General Discussion

[atlantis_babe34]

Overall thought it was a pretty decent episode.. Getting sick and tired of Wray and Sharon, ugh, its getting boring.

- Really liked the scenes between Eli and his mum
- Rush is just starting to annoy me more now >_<


overall good episode

[garhkal]

Which is why I love the scene this week where he actually hands his gun to someone else and tells them to walk away while he gets in Simeon's face. The fact that he has a weapon is not the only thing that makes him powerful. He's going to excercise his authority how he sees fit, gun or no gun.

There's something really fascinating about how he conducts himself, whether we agree with every decision he makes or not. He's still imposing as hell, and it's interesting to see him remove his possession of a gun from the equation and still lose almost nothing.

Fantastic scene.

He did seem to be Wanting Simeon to start something.. Though part of me wanted simeon to take greer UP on his offer and whup his butt...

Good for Eli that his mother visited Destiny in the body of James he was so happy he got to hug James.

Wa... did not realise it was James she was in..

From Chloe, we get to Rush. His development this season has been nothing short of delicious. Rush was getting softer during the latter half of Season 1, but with the discovery of the bridge, that side of him seem to be put on the back burner. The desire to control Destiny, to complete her mission, and to understand it all, has consumed him; he is driven by a single goal, and that means him falling back on "the greater good" - anything could and should be sacrificed in completing that goal

I am just waiting for him to grow a mustache and start twirlling it at the corners.

. To that end, he has made some mistakes, and he clearly feels guilty about them; here, he blackmails Chloe into helping him - for the greater good, no doubt. Rush is basically spiralling down a deep hole, throwing away all parts of him that distracts him from understanding Destiny - and yet, that guilt is still there.

He seems to do guilt well with his facial expressions.

However, I believe there will be redemption. Rush's motivations are pretty clear despite what the writers say; he wants to understand Destiny - in itself not at all a malicious thing; it is this that will set him free, so to speak.

Especially if it helps everyone, not just rush.

Then Eli finally stopped pretending and revealed who he was, only to have his mom break his heart due to the craziness of this situation. You really can't blame her, especially in her emotional state; and yet, seeing Eli like that was, again, very painful.

I give cudos to both her and Eli for pulling off what to me was a hard scene to do.

Oh, and Robert Carlyle directed! He did a great job. The actors' emotions were really teased out, and I can only assume that's partially due to the fact that RC is an actor as well. Considering that Rush wasn't in the episode any less than normal (as they usually are when the actor is also directing), I would definitely love to see him direct more!

Ok, I think that's about it. Of course, the SFX, music, sets, lighting, CGI, etc. etc. are always excellent. Great episode!

I cannot remember which ep of blakes 7 it was, but supposedly one of the actors for that show directed one of the eps, still stared in it and it was a well received one.. So i wonder if that is something us brits are good at... since a good number of US shows that do that, don't seem to hold the same emotions..

Watch the episode again. When she first transfers over you can see Park's face in a reflection.

Thanks for the correction Pabs..

They could also just introduce Tretoin as a newly developed drug, they have already begun to introduce new technology to the public domain anyway. An she the first patent to receive it as part of the human clinical trials.

Being we already have issues with people getting addicted to drugs (medical ones), and this one NEEDING you to continue taking it for life (as the tretonin replaces your imune system), i doubt they would do something like that.

We are beginning to have a grasp on the Blue alien's' influence on Chloe. But what about on Rush? He was kidnapped as well and we don't know how much his actions and present scheming are serving only his agenda or someone else's. Is Chloe the only one changing?

If he is, it might explain why he is so obssessed (more so it seems) than normal about the ship....

Rush is smart, that's a given, but he's not that smart, and Young isn't as stupid as Rush seems to think he is. There's only so much BS he can issue before the inevitable beating ensues ..I'll get the popcorn

Butter, two sashays of salt.. I will bring the soda!

I'm curious if I'll find other Carlyle-directed episodes above average.

I am wondering if he is going to be directing any other episodes... or if he directed any in season 1..

I think Simeon got exactly what he was after there - he's testing the crew, trying to identify weak points and character flaws he can use to his advantage. This little exchange told him something very valuable: he can remove Greer from the equation simply by pocketing a weapon and taunting him into a "fair fight" with no one else around, and Greer will fall for it.

True. Greer does seem to be about honor/glory.. though i do hope if it comes to it, simeon wins. Just to knock greer down a peg or two.

Not really. IMO arguing about means to gain Tretonin to cure people is quite silly, mainly because Tretonin was never meant to cure people. It was created to help the Jaffa, and the Jaffa are an alien race. Another alien race. Why would something design specifically for alien physiology work on human body?

That's a good point. We don't even know if it will work on a full human, let alone one with HIV.

Now that they've let her actually use the stones to visit Destiny, I can't see them not trusting her enough to let her take Tretonin. Since the Air Force is supposed to be taking care of her, and they were responsible for her son getting lost in space somewhere, it doesn't seem like it should be a problem.

See above.

they could force the person who is being cured to keep silent. Quite easy to cover up. and If they try to tell the public about it, they get reinfected wiht AIDS one night mysteriously to cover their tracks.

Being Eli shoudl have signed a NDA, and just BLURTED out what was going on to someone not cleared, how do you expect mommy dearest do not do the same?

Actually, Tretonin was created to help Humans, by the Pandorans. Jaffas, who no longer carry a symbiode, use Tretonin, but it was never created for Jaffa.

I am tryng to remember why the pandorans did it.. Wasn't it cause they no longer had a gou'ald master to give them symbiots or something like that?

Nobody has mentioned this so far, I think.
Just what could be in that box that Cloe was trying to open when Lt. James found her in the storage room?
The box looked like a human made suitcase, not an ancient storage device.
What could Cloe, in alien trance, could possibly want with a human suitcase?

It kind of looked like the container the stones were in...

I was just a little peeved that it was another stoner episode, that for 40+ minutes between last week and the week after that the gate was NOT going to be activated. Assuming that it will be activated NEXT week (which I doubt at this point). Which for a bunch of anythings stuck in a closet... (or coffin per Spencer)... Is an eternity. Without the stones, they would be doing what? Playing poker? While TNG did that a couple times, it's not really something that floats my boat for a Sci-Fi series.

Maybe it was. They use the stones a lot (heck they would have had to keep it up and running since both wray and eli were on earth) but that would then mean the CASE has no need to be in the room...

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Unlike some people, I'm quite enjoying the deviousness of Rush. It doesn't grate on my nerves at all.

his deviousness is perfectly within the lines of his character so in that, yes, I enjoy it. Maybe in a love to hate it way, but that's still enjoyment.

Same here. I wasn't expecting him to stand up quite like he did. Good for him, even though Simeon would have wiped the floor with him.

yep, in a fight, fair or otherwise, Simeon would win but isn't it interesting that Volker would stand up anyway? Would he have before? Is this something new that's developing in him, either because he cares deeply about the people he's with, or because something in the character is toughening up? So many roles shifting here

[Petra]

No. I never bet against a sure thing.

Spoilsport

Actually, Tretonin was created to help Humans, by the Pandorans. Jaffas, who no longer carry a symbiode, use Tretonin, but it was never created for Jaffa.

*cough*PANGARANS*cough* The planet was called Pangar, not Pandora. We ain't talking about Avatar, babe

You are partially right; I forgot about Pangarans, my mistake. However, please note that that's not the version currently used. What Pangarans created was highly dangerous; it required regular doses of the drug, their lack meant death. That's why Pangarans stopped using it, after Egeria told them how to fix the damage already done and that there would be no more Tretonin ever again. Why? Because it was based on Goa'uld symbiotes, and there would never be enough of them to sustain mass production.

After Egeria's death the Tok'ra took the drug for study and they came up with new Tretonin, created specifically for the Jaffa, not the humans. The purpose of the original Pangaran drug doesn't count, because new Tretonin clearly isn't based on Goa'uld symbiotes. I'll say again: Jaffa and humans have different physiologies and it's highly doubtful that a drug created for one race only would have the same effect on the other. And the new drug, that we came to call Tretonin, was never meant for people, only for the Jaffa.

Did you consider the possibility that Young has more than 1 bottle? 1 for his alcohol and another for water? My read is that Young only would bring out the alcohol bottle when re-filling or when he's in his quarters alone.

Sure, except in earlier episodes Young drank his water from his canteen, Greer wouldn't be so suspicious of innocent water and alcohol fits with the booze we saw Young drink in earlier episodes. Unless you want to argue that it was water too?

what made sg1 and sga good was that every episode new planet and new adventure

*sigh*

Dude, if you really want to tell us about alleged superiority of SG-1 and SGA, could you at least make the effort to make some reasonable arguments, instead of the above silliness? "Every episode new planet"? Seriously? Oy, this is too much fun for me to pass...let's take a look at season 1 of SG-1, shall we? In "The enemy within", "Hathor" and "Politics" SG-1 were on base the entire time, in "Bloodlines" they went back to Chulak, already visited in CotG, and in the season finale they gated to a ship, not a planet. See? First season of the franchise alone disproved your claim.

It was REAL surprising Wray ordering it, as it shows she does at least have some compassion (i gave her great cudos), but shows a big fault... Both SGA/SG1 had those out of the loop having to be brought in with a NDA. Even Mccays sister was brought in with one (iirc). Now we have Eli BREAAKING one telling his mom as much as she did IN an open area (the hospital). Then we have her taking a trip to the ship most likely via the SGC (and possibily one of the ships)..

To be fair, things like that happened in the past, for example in Bounty attendees of Cam's high school reunion were told in "an open area", as was Cam's dying friend in Stronghold.

Besides, I'm not sure if Eli broke the NDA. I mean in Earth he was given a choice: he could either tell his mom the truth or not, and he chose not to. But the fact that he could back then tells me, that his mom had been cleared.

we have been the ones making the Tretonin. Not the Tok'ra.

Umm, no. While the answer was never given onscreen, the drug was developed by the Tok'ra and they were the ones supplying the Jaffa. Why would they do that if we were making it?

Pathogen

A few more words about the episode. As I said earlier, I liked it but IMO it's definitely the weakest ep of the season so far and as LoneStar said, it feels like the set-up for the stuff to come. It's also a tad too slow for my taste.

Like majority here, I liked the stuff with Eli and his mom, although I wish it was cut shorter. Like minority here, I also liked Wray/Shannon stuff, and how those 2 plots were combined at the end. Maybe in time families of all Destineers will form a support group? Anyway, as nice as the scenes set on Earth were, I was much more interested in what was going on on the ship.

Chloe's situation develops more slowly than I would have thought, which is not a bad thing actually. I'm still unsure how I feel about her alliance with Rush. Also, her disappearing to temper with various things on the ship reminds me of Jack's behaviour when he had the Ancient's knowledge dowloaded into his brain. Particularly the scene when James finds Chloe in the storage room was similar to the scene when Sam finds Jack in similar situation in "The Fifth Race".

Rush becomes more devious and cunning and irredeemable with each episode, and I'm loving it. Showing Young his secret corridor was a stroke of genius but as I mentioned, I'm growing tired of the bridge being kept secret for so long.

I'm really glad that we got to see all the secondary characters: Brody, Park, Volker, Franklin and especially James, and that the subplot of TJ/James friendship is continued and not forgotten.

Finally, LA/Simeon/Greer. That, to me, was the most interesting part. I get the feeling that while Varro, Ginn and the others were in LA, they didn't want to be. We know Ginn was blackmailed into it, Varro didn't seem to be too happy about it either. I guess they are all genuinely willing to start a new life and put LA episode behind them. All, except Simeon. It seems to me that for him LA means more than for the others. Maybe it really gives him the sense of belonging, maybe, unlike his comrades, he really feels that it's his home. When Varro told him everybody was cooperating, I thought Simeon looked betrayed. I'm certainly looking forward to seeing more of him.

Him and Greer, that is. It looks like TPTB are setting up some big showdown between them. That would be cool. Greer needs to have an equal, worthy opponent and Simeon seems perfect. That scene in the corridor, when Greer handed over his gun and dismissed his subordinates has to be my favourite moment of the episode. I could literally feel the tension; it was extremely well done and I hope the writers will capitalize on it, and not pull another Daniel/Replicarter.

All in all, bring on Cloverdale!

[Misfits]

I am tryng to remember why the pandorans did it.. Wasn't it cause they no longer had a gou'ald master to give them symbiots or something like that?

If memory serves, I believe the Pangarans discovered the Go'auld Queen and found out about their superior illness fighting ability. Started experimenting and eventually created Tretonin.
The original formula had a defect. At the end of the episode, they find a solution, and To'Kra refined the formula to not have such defect. The defect was that it suppressed Human immune system, so, it would be necessary for anyone taking Tretonin to continue taking it.
This would suggest that, for humans, the refined formula would not suppress the human immune system, and therefore, humans won't have to take Tretonin forever.
The situation with Jaffa differ in that the infant Go'auld symbiode they carry in stomach pouch replaces their immune system, giving them a healthy life for over 140 years. For Jaffa, when they are so old that they are no longer able to carry a symbiode, they would quickly die because they no longer have any immune system in their body. Tretonin is the reason T'ealc and Master Brattack are still alive.

[Misfits]

I was just a little peeved that it was another stoner episode, that for 40+ minutes between last week and the week after that the gate was NOT going to be activated. Assuming that it will be activated NEXT week (which I doubt at this point). Which for a bunch of anythings stuck in a closet... (or coffin per Spencer)... Is an eternity. Without the stones, they would be doing what? Playing poker? While TNG did that a couple times, it's not really something that floats my boat for a Sci-Fi series.

Just remembered the answer to your question. There hasn't been any Gated planets around.
In 'Aftermath', they had to uncover a buried gate. Otherwise, Destiny took just over 6 hours in FTL to the seeder ship, 'Awakening' happened, and probably another while to reach the gated planets.
With Rush stopping Destiny so frequently, obviously it's taking longer to get back into the gated corridor.

[Misfits]

Logical given that the LA were released and would otherwise know where it is, if it wasn't elsewhere.

The stones are in constant use, no time to store it.
In fact, it is used so often, it has it's own room.
If it wasn't in constant use, I can see it being stored somewhere, however, with a crew of 80 +people, it would likely have very little down time.

[Misfits]

The universe is the totality of all space. There is nothing outside it. But that doesn't mean it has to be infinite.

Totality of all space would mean infinite.

[Orion475]

What's with Sharon and Eli's mother?

[Misfits]

Not necessarily. Does the 2D surface of a ball have a boundary? Is it infinite?

Here we go again, giving a 2D example for a 3D question.
Again, Just like the Moon orbits Earth, if there are no boundaries, and there are no decrease of speed, the distance the Moon could travel would be infinite.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

could all of the size of the universe, balls and infinites possibly take place on a thread of its own? I don't see what it's got to do with the episode Pathogen

[Misfits]

could all of the size of the universe, balls and infinites possibly take place on a thread of its own? I don't see what it's got to do with the episode Pathogen

Sorry mate. I'll stop responding to that thread.

[PG15]

Sorry mate. I'll stop responding to that thread.

We've actually been talking about something like this for ages in another thread, here:

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/7...ulation-thread)

It's a long thread but we do get into the shape of the Universe, whether it has a center or an edge, etc. etc. later on. If you don't mind, I'll continue this debate there.

[Shadow_7]

Just remembered the answer to your question. There hasn't been any Gated planets around.
In 'Aftermath', they had to uncover a buried gate. Otherwise, Destiny took just over 6 hours in FTL to the seeder ship, 'Awakening' happened, and probably another while to reach the gated planets.
With Rush stopping Destiny so frequently, obviously it's taking longer to get back into the gated corridor.

Yes, I understand that it's necessary for the plot. But it was a bit much to suffer through IMO. They could have at least done a 30 second clip of Telford and those aliens. Versus however many minutes of the LA being escorted around the ship. Just too much like most of season one, which we already know doesn't bode well for SGU and ratings and season 3.

[nx01a]

The Good:
>Rush is really going into evil scientist mode! 3 episodes and he's frelled up 3 people's lives. No sleep, multiple voices in his head, keeping secrets, making obvious mistakes... He can't make it to the mid-season finale sane.
>Chloe! Finally she's useful!
>Nice ploy with the chair, Rush.
>VERY nice ploy deflecting suspicion from yourself onto Chloe, Rush!
>Another stones episode that was actually good. TPTB are slowly making up for the horrendous Life and Earth.
>Dr. Brightman!
>TJ and Varro. Awwwww!
>Greer and Simian! Somebody gonna get a hurtin' real bad!
>Park and Simian! Hey! It could happen!
>Volker standing up for Park. Is he just looking out for his friend or is he also in Park's book club?
>Eli and his mother. Very touching.
>Bringing Eli's mother to Destiny. Nice way to convince her.
>Wray's fragile relationship helping her see Eli's desperation and making her help him and his mom. Hopefully Wray and Sharon'll make it work.
>Carlyle directed this episode? Hmm. Nothing really outstanding about the direction, though the final shot of Chloe's eye against the darkness was nice.
>No emo music montage! Some very nice instrumental music and another twist of the knife right before the end. THAT'S how episodes should end.
>So... What exactly do the blue aliens hope to achieve by making Chloe have high function autistism? I assume the blue aliens know Ancient from probing Rush's mind... since they never actually got aboard Destiny. They modified Chloe really fast! They must have been preparing to do it to Rush but decided to do her instead.

The Bad:
>Everyone who's involved with Destiny turns to alcohol? Wray's lover, Young... *groan* More shots of Young having shots of 'something'.
>And again Young is obviously too drunk to have someone tail Rush.
>The editing and transitions just before the montage at the end were quite abrupt. I'm not sure if that's the director or the editor... but it didn't work.

The Ugly:
>With all the alien technologies at their disposal, not to mention Tok'ra symbionts or a Goa'uld sarcophagus, they can't cure a case of HIV/AIDS in someone whose well-being is pretty much integral to the smooth running of Destiny?

The Verdict:
>'Pathogen'... Quite infectious.