'Pathogen' (204) General Discussion

[Callie]

I never wish this on any show but please, I am begging you cancel this show.

Why would you say that? There are still many of us who enjoy the show. To wish it cancelled just because you don't want to watch it is really unkind.

[AndSoItBegins]

I dont get why they dont use the character of Simeon more. .

Because when one character gets to dominate screen time amongst a large ensemble its kinda hard to get everyone else their moments to shine.

That being said I do feel this Simeon character will get his moments in the sun in the future.

[jelgate]

Why would you say that? There are still many of us who enjoy the show. To wish it cancelled just because you don't want to watch it is really unkind.

Don't feed the trolls

[AndSoItBegins]

Why would you say that? There are still many of us who enjoy the show. To wish it cancelled just because you don't want to watch it is really unkind.

In all fairness he or has that right to want to see it cancelled. Why should he care about those of us who watch the show? Nonetheless at least we will be spared more awful attempts at humor as he provided with his not so clever blow-by-blow account.

[thewalter]

what was the Haunting piano music at the end of this episode?

[Eternal Density]

Perhaps you need to watch Avalon again! (SG-1 season 9)

"There is only one truth: the universe is infinite"

Hallowed are the Ori.
Anyhow, I think the point was about our universe, not the SG universe, but I've forgotten what that point was or who made it. Oh well.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Pathogen Review [SGU 204]
By xxxevilgrinxxx | Published: October 24, 2010 | [crossposted at my personal blog - pics removed]

The fourth episode of SGU’s season two, “Pathogen” continues in the tradition of an aptly named episode. The word pathogen is defined as “a specific causative agent (as a bacterium or virus) of disease” [Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary]. In the case of Chloe, while we don’t know the exact causative agent, it’s believed to have been due to the action of the Blue Aliens implanting something in her, somehow.

True to SGU tradition, the term ‘pathogen’ isn’t held to strictly one character, and the theme of ‘pathogen’ echoes throughout the episode. Eli’s mother, the existence of the Lucian Alliance, the alcoholism exhibited by different characters and Rush’s actions all echo the term ‘pathogen’.

The first and most obvious is of course Chloe’s transformation, into what we can’t exactly be sure but that she may be turning into a Blue Alien is definitely suspected. While this transformation is interesting enough all on its own, it is the rest of the crew’s reaction to her and her change that I find interesting.

It’s not surprising that Eli, still strongly connected to Chloe, should be the first to note her strange states. In dealing with the situation, Scott moves through inexperience in the relationship aspect, to putting the good of all above his desire to respect Chloe’s privacy, and hands over her diary.

The quarantine option is juxtaposed with the treatment of the Lucian Alliance, where Chloe is accompanied everywhere she goes, when she’s not confined to her quarters which, perhaps in the eyes of the crew, paints her as a threat on a par with the Lucian Alliance. At the end of the episode, when Chloe is sitting at the table with her friends, it seems as though some of the crew might be watching her warily.

Lastly, there is Rush’s reaction to Chloe, which is something I found quite frightening, especially when Rush is alone, speaking into the radio and suggesting that Chloe sit in the chair. There was something slippery and dangerous about the scene and I can honestly say that I got chills watching it. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if we saw manifestations of parts of Chloe in later episodes, separated out by Rush while she sat in the chair.

The second occurrence of the ‘pathogen’ theme is in the scenes with Eli’s mother, who is fighting HIV back on Earth. There is the direct ‘pathogen’ in the disease itself and there is the subtler ‘pathogen’ – something from the outside that is causing harm to Eli’s well-being aboard Destiny. Eli’s absence is also an outside agent acting on his mother’s health, furthering the progression of her disease.

In the scenes with his mother, Eli is completing the trip that he took in Season One, when he couldn’t tell his mother who he really was, with the benefit that he is now in a position to prove out his story. While HIV cannot (in this universe) be cured so easily, the loneliness and worry of Eli and his mother are pushed back for a time when Eli is able to bring his mother to the Destiny, sharing the wonder with her.

Aside from the beautiful visual of Eli and his mother on the observation deck, three interactions really stand out for me in this segment of the storyline.

First, Young defending Eli’s absence when Brody insists on Eli being there. Young pushes Eli hard but with this he shows that he will only push so far. If that is the case for Eli, it’s the case for everyone.

Second, in Wray’s insistence that Eli be allowed to bring his mother to Destiny, she shows once again that when she is fully backing the crew of the Destiny, she is at her best. I do wonder if there will be fallout from this act, especially if others wish to bring their loved ones to destiny.

Last but not least, getting Sharon together with Eli’s mother, for support, for company, has a certain finality to it. In a way, Wray and Eli have found a way to begin the act of dealing with the situation at home, and so are one step closer to acceptance of their fate.

In the form of an outside causative agent comes the Lucian Alliance on Destiny. Through previous episodes, a good deal of the “illness” has been removed and, through the actions of Wray, Earth, the IOA and lastly Young, much of the “threat” has been taken out of the remaining Alliance members.

Trust remains a key issue and, while the Alliance members strive to prove their sincerity, they continue to be contained and quarantined by the military contingent aboard Destiny, as well as being distrusted by the remaining crew. Even among the Lucian Alliance members themselves there is distrust and they appear to have quarantined themselves from Simeon’s volatile actions, leaving Simeon out of the loop and isolated.

The desire to be seen not as an outside force but to belong comes through very effectively in Simeon’s dialogue with Young. Even this late in the game, I am left wondering who to trust among the Alliance. Varro and the others appear to be trustworthy but the fact that they were so easily able to mislead and exclude even their own has me wonder how wise it is to trust them.

The goal was to misinform and as odd as it may sound on its face, Simeon remained true to the goal that they had set – to misinform. It is a strange thing to find something honorable in a man that held true to that goal, even when that goal is to be dishonest. Lastly, the existence of the LA ‘pathogen’ is prompting a fighting response from the crew of the Destiny, where the unlikeliest of members will come forward to fight for the crew. What Simeon said to Park is irrelevant, but Volker’s willingness to defend a crew member is, as is Greer’s defending “his people”.

A more subtle ‘pathogen’ echo is the alcoholism beginning to be exhibited by Sharon, as a way to deal with the continued absence of Camille, as well as its effects on Sharon, resulting in her being short tempered and despondent. While Young;s drinking wasn’t as evident in this episodes as previous episodes, I wonder if, when Wray returns to the Destiny, she will be looking anew at Young and Young’s behavior. Will Young’s growing reliance on alcohol to cope with the burden he is carrying be more evident to her? Further, will her reaction to Young be tempered by her own experience with Sharon? Given the experience, I hope that Wray uses this for good, as that tends to be when she truly excels as a character.

The reference to Rush and his actions has been made, in reference to Chloe, but it bears some repeating. While it may not be so much a ‘pathogen’ as ‘pathological’, Rush’s actions are definitely becoming a concern. His actions regarding Chloe are frightening and in continuing to lie to and divert the other members of the crew, he continues to threaten all of them.

In showing the others his ‘study space’ he may have placated the rest of crew temporarily but this deceit isn’t likely to hold for long, especially as the rest of the crew, Young included, don’t trust him. What is more unfortunate, for Rush’s sake, is that this distrust is mirrored by the Destiny itself. In this episode, Destiny’s manifestations stand farther back from Rush, rather than coming in close to talk to him. In body language and tone of voice, Gloria appears distant, almost sad when she is interacting with Rush. If he has gone so far as to distance the ship, can he ever come back?

Lastly, a ‘pathogen’, classic or otherwise, doesn’t disappear in a day and this true for all of the characters and scenarios aboard. Chloe has not been ‘cured’ although I suspect that was never Rush’s goal. Eli’s mother, while she now has the friendship of Sharon, will continue to sicken, both with her ongoing HIV and with the loneliness of missing Eli. The fallout from what the Lucian Alliance has and hasn’t told Earth will continue to play out, with Simeon being a pivotal character. Does he strive for acceptance from Young, someone he appears near-deferential to, or side with Varro and the others, possibly playing a dangerous game? The presence of alcohol, and the burdens and pains that have caused their overuse, continue. Possibly the most dangerous point of all is Rush, something that should prove interesting in later episodes.

Rating: 8/10

[david2708]

Finally caught up with this episode. Not as bad as I was led to believe it was.
I liked the Eli/mother stuff, Chloe's transformation has some interest as well. The lesbian love angst is a total snorefest and pretty cliche. It may have had some resonance about 15 years ago but to think TPTB think it's daring is a total laugh. Well, to Americans it maybe?
If they had made Lt Scott the gay character then it may have been more interesting and probably would have started a thousand and one girly slash fan fictions.
Rush, I find a bit one note and I kinda don't much care about his character nor his fate.

[hassel]

Boorfest, especially after the last episode that was just fantastic. Greer was great, the only part that kept me awake.

[PG15]

I've been married 26 years. I think I'm qualified to opine that they're both immature. My wife's a uterine cancer survivor and our relationship did not become "unstable". In fact, our relationship grew deeper than ever. So, now everyone knows not to come to you for relationship advice based in reality.

Really? Was that last line really necessary?

Ok, I seem to have hit a nerve. Perhaps if I had psychic powers and knew that you had experience in this matter instead of being just some random newbie poster posting a one line critique without explanation or backup, I would've posted a different response (if any).

Well, here's your chance then. Rather than sling crap at me, how about explaining why you think they're immature?

By the way, let's not make a mountain out of an anthill here. Wray and Sharon are obviously going through a rough patch, but that doesn't mean their relationship is/was "unstable" - what does that mean? Does it mean that they're now on the verge of splitting up? I don't think that's what's happening.

[SGeff]

I've been married 26 years. I think I'm qualified to opine that they're both immature. My wife's a uterine cancer survivor and our relationship did not become "unstable". In fact, our relationship grew deeper than ever.

No matter how many years you have been married, it is different situation. How long you have been departed from each other? Like in Riley's Kino, "it's not being there is torturing me". The project has made them not seeing each other for a year or more. That is the thing made their relationship unstable, not the cancer. So you are not qualified to judge them.

I admire you and your wife could get through that. But I bet if when your wife had the cancer, you left like Eli's father, your relationship won't be stable at all. That is much qualified the situation like Wray and Sharon, not being together or even will not see each other face to face any more.

And I apologize if it sounds rude.

[garhkal]

Funny, I don't remember anything of the sort when Maj Ferguson was dying in a hospital and Cam decided to tell him because he felt like it (Stronghold).

I will give you that point, in so far as he told someone else.. BUT that person was a fellow military member who at least had a security clearance.

Regardless of whether you remember it or not, Eli obviously could tell his mom what was going on.

Point conceeded.

Why would you say that? There are still many of us who enjoy the show. To wish it cancelled just because you don't want to watch it is really unkind.

Agreed. I can't stand some shows, but i won't call for their termination, since others DO like it.

True to SGU tradition, the term ‘pathogen’ isn’t held to strictly one character, and the theme of ‘pathogen’ echoes throughout the episode. Eli’s mother, the existence of the Lucian Alliance, the alcoholism exhibited by different characters and Rush’s actions all echo the term ‘pathogen’.

That is an interesting POV, that the term Pathogen here was more than just chloe..

Second, in Wray’s insistence that Eli be allowed to bring his mother to Destiny, she shows once again that when she is fully backing the crew of the Destiny, she is at her best. I do wonder if there will be fallout from this act, especially if others wish to bring their loved ones to destiny.

If anything, i could see HER fighting to get her GF on the ship.. BUT i doubt the others would begrudge eli having his dying mother there.

A more subtle ‘pathogen’ echo is the alcoholism beginning to be exhibited by Sharon, as a way to deal with the continued absence of Camille, as well as its effects on Sharon, resulting in her being short tempered and despondent. While Young;s drinking wasn’t as evident in this episodes as previous episodes, I wonder if, when Wray returns to the Destiny, she will be looking anew at Young and Young’s behavior. Will Young’s growing reliance on alcohol to cope with the burden he is carrying be more evident to her? Further, will her reaction to Young be tempered by her own experience with Sharon? Given the experience, I hope that Wray uses this for good, as that tends to be when she truly excels as a character.

Hmm.. I am wondering if her seeing Sharon devolve into her state cause of the alcohol, be a wake up key that Camile uses ON young to snap him out of it. Would make for a change Wray 'saving the day' for young.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

That is an interesting POV, that the term Pathogen here was more than just chloe..

If anything, i could see HER fighting to get her GF on the ship.. BUT i doubt the others would begrudge eli having his dying mother there.

Hmm.. I am wondering if her seeing Sharon devolve into her state cause of the alcohol, be a wake up key that Camile uses ON young to snap him out of it. Would make for a change Wray 'saving the day' for young.

It's something I've noticed in quite a few episodes, that the titles could be taken so many ways.

Another aspect of this show that I like - lines dropped in one episode ripple out to later episodes. They might not begrudge Eli so much as begrudge Wray for not allowing others to do the same.

I'd love to see that happen, where Wray stepped up like that. Not out of any desire to take power and cement it back with the IOA as in Divided, but purely on a human to human level. Wray didn't start out with great leadership skills but she's getting there

[Artemis-Neith]

[…] I'd love to see that happen, where Wray stepped up like that. Not out of any desire to take power and cement it back with the IOA as in Divided, but purely on a human to human level. Wray didn't start out with great leadership skills but she's getting there

Maybe that's what Wray always did, since the beginning? Step up for "her" people. The exception this time is, she was the first time able to order someone to let something happen. In this case to back up Eli.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Maybe that's what Wray always did, since the beginning? Step up for "her" people. The exception this time is, she was the first time able to order someone to let something happen. In this case to back up Eli.

I think it's the definition of who "her people" are that's changing. There was a time when "her people" weren't on the Destiny and she did what she did for the IOA. I think that's been changing.