'Pathogen' (204) General Discussion

[Sami_]

SGU seems to be going backward again *sigh*...after such a promising start to the season.

The most boring episode since Life.

[dvdrts]

Pretty sure it was Park, not James.

sorry, i tought it was James. anyone that can confirm who it was?

[PG15]

Looks like once again I'm in the tiny group of people who liked the Wray/Sharon storyline. Well, nuts to you guys!

Seriously though, I thought this episode was great, and if it were a standalone episode it would easily be the best of the season so far. However, ever since Subversion the episodes have (almost) effortlessly ran together to the point where it's hard to really separate them. For instance, Chloe's arc has been present since the last few minutes of Incursion II, with minor moments leading back to Lost and of course, Space and Divided.

Speaking of Chloe; her story is obviously a setup. Her problems are addressed, then promptly hidden so as to develop quietly in the background under Rush's manipulations. I wonder where they will go with this. During the first season I made the argument that having Chloe suddenly get alien-y would be a bad move since it detracts from her natural growth into a useful member of the crew; still, I'm intrigued. Perhaps this will merely aid her in that growth; she has enormous inner strength as shown in a few scenes of Season 1, so perhaps seeing how she deals with this very-personal threat would reveal more of what makes her tick? I would like that.

From Chloe, we get to Rush. His development this season has been nothing short of delicious. Rush was getting softer during the latter half of Season 1, but with the discovery of the bridge, that side of him seem to be put on the back burner. The desire to control Destiny, to complete her mission, and to understand it all, has consumed him; he is driven by a single goal, and that means him falling back on "the greater good" - anything could and should be sacrificed in completing that goal. To that end, he has made some mistakes, and he clearly feels guilty about them; here, he blackmails Chloe into helping him - for the greater good, no doubt. Rush is basically spiralling down a deep hole, throwing away all parts of him that distracts him from understanding Destiny - and yet, that guilt is still there.

This is obviously an ongoing thing that will reach a head pretty soon, and I'm practically salivating at what will become of him. I'm sure he will spiral further until his secret is out, and when that happens, there will be a helluva show. However, I believe there will be redemption. Rush's motivations are pretty clear despite what the writers say; he wants to understand Destiny - in itself not at all a malicious thing; it is this that will set him free, so to speak.

Running parallel to Rush, you have Young. Like Kermee, one of my only major complaints is that Young is getting short-shrifted this season (so far). The man is spiraling as well, and yet he isn't getting nearly the amount of attention Rush is; I guess this is an unfortunate side effect of having a large cast, but still. A few shots of him drinking can only express so much, you know? What we're missing is seeing Young face his demons on his own, like Rush is doing on the Bridge. Having Telford acknowledge Young's slow breakdown in Awakening was a good start, and shows that the writers are paying attention, but I definitely hope that his arc will come to a head soon as well.

Perhaps it's not as bad as I make it out to be though. So far, we have Young drinking, which has been present in every episode besides this one; plus, he seems to have stopped shaving, and his hair is getting out of control. He is also acting a bit more arrogant, and there are hints of rebellious thoughts regarding Homeworld Command. The signs of his breakdown are everywhere; however, like I said, I just really hope this is all going somewhere. The worst offender here is his sudden reversal this episode with regard to the LA. For a while after that I was trying to rationalize how that happened. In Awakening he was all "they have no rights" and now he quotes Wray in saying that he can't keep them locked up forever? Why the contradiction? Zainea13 above there said that Young merely came to his senses and decided to follow the orders - but why? This is literally a 180-degree change, and I find it difficult to accept.

I will have to ask Joe or Carl about this one. Very puzzling.

Moving on. The highlight of this episode is without a doubt Eli's story. David Blue knocked it out of the park. Right from the beginning, with Eli running off to the stones room before Young finished his sentence, I knew it was going to be special. Then, I got misty during Eli and his mom's first encounter. It was so obvious that Mommy Wallace missed her son, and the pain in her face knowing that her son won't come visit her was difficult to watch, especially for me, as I'm about to live alone for the first time in my life, away from my mom and dad. I know that I will miss them, and they will miss me, and it's going to be difficult.

Then Eli finally stopped pretending and revealed who he was, only to have his mom break his heart due to the craziness of this situation. You really can't blame her, especially in her emotional state; and yet, seeing Eli like that was, again, very painful. "You're not my son!" echoed in my ears for a good while after it was uttered. From there on, the story got even better; seeing Eli putting his foot down about not going back until his mom's troubles were taken care of was great, and his story about the time when his dad left left me misty once more.

Nothing beat the stone scene though. First, we have Eli with the kind of grin only reserved for sons to give to their moms, and then we have that ecstatic, teary face mommy made while embracing Eli for the first time in almost a year. That scene was incredible, as it had the build-up of the entire show so far. I mean, I literally felt her shock and surprise and happiness as the camera swung from Young to Eli, knowing that it's finally happened, that she finally saw her son again. I majorly teared up here.

I had hoped that the Rush plot of stopping the ship randomly and Eli plot of proving his identity to mom would dovetail into having the latter two on the Observation deck, and I was delighted to see that I hoped correctly! It's always magical to see a "normal person" exposed to the wonders of the Universe, and this was no exception. Added onto that the fact that Eli is basically me and his mom is suspiciously similar to mine (besides the AIDS thing, thank God), this became an extraordinary, if not much-too-short scene.

Then there was that continuing LA plot. Varro is continuing to show integrity while Simeon's character is starting to get teased out, finally. He is basically a slimy, opportunistic git - excellent villain material. Robert Knepper plays him so well that after a performance I just want to physically wash the slime off of him. Opposite him we have Greer, who was extra badass in this episode. After a season of build up, who once was labelled to be a loose canon or a "psycho" has firmly established, at least for me, his strength and authority as a Master Sergeant. Damn, he was Awesome.

Finally, we come to Wray and Sharon. Like I said at the beginning, I like and have always liked their storyline; sometimes it's just nice seeing a couple that's been together for ages interacting because of all those quirks that they develop together; all those little looks, little wordless moments where the two understand each other perfectly without uttering a sound - they are precious moments showing the bond and familiarily between them. This time was no exception. Wray saw right through Sharon as she pretended everything was fine during that first dinner scene, but she hasn't realized just how deep that hurt was, resulting in her being surprised at Sharon's demeanor when she couldn't find her keys. Wray has always seen Sharon as herself, never understanding fully that Sharon didn't have that luxury. This was a deeply personal storyline resulting from the very-science-fiction-y nature of the stones, and I loved that they finally explored this. And, at the end, when Sharon finally tells Wray of why she's been acting differently, I loved how she was so quick to say "I'll be fine", as if to make sure Wray doesn't worry; that's what I'm talking about with the "precious moments" remark; seldom do you see two people so much in love; despite Sharon's distress, she wastes no time in making sure Wray is alright. I love those two.

Of course, at the end, it is bittersweet, as Wray could not have the same chance as Eli did with his mother. You can see Wray nod half-heartedly at Eli's appreciation, knowing that she couldn't do the same with her own loved one. Her actions here just reinforces my opinion that she is a decent human being who cares about "her people" on the ship - which I never doubted.

And now, you have Eli's mom talking to Sharon; I hope this is something they will pursue down the line. It was odd seeing Eli and Wray together in "Faith", but with this episode and with their loved ones connecting, it seems the writers are willing to develop their relationship; colour me intrigued. Let's see where they go with this one. At least, we can have some more feel-good family stuff with them.

Oh, and Robert Carlyle directed! He did a great job. The actors' emotions were really teased out, and I can only assume that's partially due to the fact that RC is an actor as well. Considering that Rush wasn't in the episode any less than normal (as they usually are when the actor is also directing), I would definitely love to see him direct more!

Ok, I think that's about it. Of course, the SFX, music, sets, lighting, CGI, etc. etc. are always excellent. Great episode!

[MattSilver 3k]

Now all that’s left are Scott’s homelife, Chloe’s mom and the Young’s wife. And frankly I don’t think TPTB need to even address the first two.

Agreed. Chloe and her mother are fine, and Scott's son is more of a personal representation for his struggles throughout the remaining episodes. Young's wife on the other hand... Definitely need to have a scene there.

<Snipped only because the original post it refers to was deleted.>

Episode was good. Actually, what surprised me most was the fact that it's not getting totally slammed on by everybody here. Guess I can't predict the fanbase sometimes (Happened with Light too). But it's a pleasant surprise.

Now, I personally figured that Chloe wouldn't get healed - trailer strikes again - but her teaming up with Rush adds intrigue. They have an odd bond, really - from their little confrontation in Air and their bond in Divided over events of Space... But it's a good bond. Rush doesn't really have any allies or willing pawns or whatever, and I hope Chloe's smart about whatever Rush gets her to help him with. It's a great development for her to have too - one that increases her character importance in a subtle and awesome way, and I have no idea how it'll end up. That's a good thing.

The Lucian Alliance stuff was intriguing (But no Ginn! Aww... ). Most of all, I'm digging the increased relationship between TJ and Varro, unsubtle though it may be, and I especially liked the reveal that Simeon is playing everybody and Varro and the others are not. Wow. The writers are building Simeon up to be someone crafty and all that, and I bet after these setbacks (His charming personality currying him no friends and this reveal that everybody else is actually playing nice), he'll turn into someone to look out for. I just hope it doesn't end badly for anybody IE Greer.

You know, I feel like Scott doesn't get enough credit. I mean, this time last year we were all hounding on him for being a manwhore or what-have-you, but after that, he's kinda always just been there, you know? There, quite there but not there, but still feel's there. I've been watching him, and although he's kinda characterised a little less than Young or Greer, he's still very solid. Heart on his sleeve kinda guy (Here and Awakening), but a solid leader under crisis (Aftermath) and a good soldier nonetheless (Intervention). I like that he was worried about himself and Chloe, really vulnerable even, and he was always trying to be there for her this episode, always with her wellbeing at the forefront, and for that, he definitely earned his spot as one of my favourite characters as of late.

Young was sane this episode - good for him - and I think it's because of Telford's most recent sacrifice. If so, great. He's still drinking though... TJ was TJ, all doe-eyed, smoking hot and compassionate. Rush was Rush... Blah blah everybody else was cool, and they all had their moment. Greer <3.

Now, back on Earth... Hmm... I know Carl Binder gets a lot of flack. A LOT of flack, mind you, about the episodes he's picked to write, but I gotta say that there's a reason for him writing these ones - he does character emotions and interactions like a champ, as evidenced here with Eli/his mother and Wray/Sharon, even though it may not look like it at first (He also pulled off Life better than anyone else would've, and Pain and Water were great to me). The fraying edges of the latter relationship was great once highlighted, and the whole thing dovetailed excellently in the end, playing off the relationship between Eli and Camille, which is probably my favourite random friendship - it balances out Camille's 'moments', gives her a human side, and it's nice to see Eli's not mooning over Chloe so much anymore (Or is as depressed as he looked in the back half of season one). My shipper heart is so conflicted when it comes to Eli/Chloe/Scott triangle these days - Scott and Chloe do seem to actually work in their own way, but another part of me does want to see Eli get the girl...

Good episode overall. Some cool emotions played about, and, while it's not one of my favourites, it was still a great character episode, and SGU does 'em best.

[SSJPabs]

sorry, i tought it was James. anyone that can confirm who it was?

Watch the episode again. When she first transfers over you can see Park's face in a reflection.

[PG15]

They're both very immature... and it's obviously not been a stable relationship since the beginning of the show. I'm not so sure if it ever was one.

Uh, considering that they've been together 12 years, I'm pretty sure they've been stable for a long time.

It's only been unstable since Wray is now on the other side of the Universe - a pretty good reason, if you ask me.

[dvdrts]

Watch the episode again. When she first transfers over you can see Park's face in a reflection.

sorry, i was wrong. we only saw her face in the reflection of that little mirror and i tought i saw James here face.

[knowles2]

We can't use alien technology for everyone with security clearence.

Thier isn't a big risk for her to use the stone versus asking the Tok'ra for some tretoin. If they would even give us some

Anyway I thought it was us that were producing the synthetic version.
I would not of thought the Tok'ra would have the resources to manufactore it themselves. An they have share the chemical weapon they built to fight the Gould with so it would makes sense for them to have shared Tretoin chemical formula with us.

I think what ever happens, his mother illness will take a turn for the worst, an someone, the Lucian alliance or some third party will take advantage of that eventually by telling Eli that they have a cure for his mother an the government have been denying her it.

Being cured of HIV as been known to occure in patents, but it extremely rare with only a hand full of recorded cases world, there was a news story about a bloke in the UK who was found to have the virus, two seperate blood tests confirmed this but months later a other one found his contained no traces of the virus. So the SGC got nothing to worry about people become suspicious about her being cleared of the virus.
They could also just introduce Tretoin as a newly developed drug, they have already begun to introduce new technology to the public domain anyway. An she the first patent to receive it as part of the human clinical trials.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I thought it was a great episode. Not exactly at the top of my list, but it was still good.
They finally focused on Simeon a little more and that stuff with him and Greer was great set-up for what's to come.

I'm glad they finally found a use for Chloe because she's not a bad character, there just hasn't been much for her to do that didn't feel like "Hey, let me help cause I'm one of the main cast!" and now she has a purpose that feels more natural. And I like where they're going with it.

The Earth stuff was alright. Eli's story was better than Wray's and I liked the idea of having Sharon and Eli's mom meet so there's someone they can relate to.

The more Rush lies and manipulates, the more I like him. Not because I like to lie and manipulate... I just think it makes a great character on a tv show Though I've noticed that the more he lies and manipulates, the more I want him to think of a way to think of a good way to lie and manipulate his way out of it when he finally gets busted... and he will get busted eventually. That's just how good RC has been at making the unlikable character likable I guess.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

I think Simeon is the one we really have to worry about. Varro may end up not being so bad.

I think Varro is really trying to make things work.

What was that stuff that Teal'c used to take? That was used to replace his immunity system. As you know HIV/AIDS is a Immune deficiency virus. So problem solved.

Tretonin.

Well the Young/Lucian Alliance angle has me completely lost. In one week we went from "Enjoy your cage your never getting out" to personal quarters for all. It just doesnt make any sense to me. Young hated the LA with every fiber of his existance and now things are OK?

Well they're still under guard and aren't allowed to roam free.

[Stormtrooper]

Or give Eli's mom a Tok'ra.

[JadedWraith]

Not a bad episode, all in all. I think Eli and Wray/Sharon story lines were there to illustrate the pressure and consequences of ground breaking explorations on those who get to make them on those left behind. And to Carlyle and the writers' credit they were done in a not too soapy or melodramatic way. Go Carl Binder!

We are beginning to have a grasp on the Blue alien's' influence on Chloe. But what about on Rush? He was kidnapped as well and we don't know how much his actions and present scheming are serving only his agenda or someone else's. Is Chloe the only one changing?

[kellx]

Great episode. Lots of story filler. Not a bad thing though. The montage at the end was the best of the series i think. The lack of emo music made the episode seem more real. It gave me a very "descent into darkness" vibe, which pretty much summed this episode up. I really enjoyed the Eli story with his mom. it was a little slow at first but i thought it was going to be long drawn out and slow. But the way it was resolved was best of all possible outcomes. Halfway through the episode i thought, ok here we go, another person dies, 4 episodes in a row, but i was completely caught off guard. Great job Robert Carlyle!

[ussrelativity]

The music at the end was excellent.

It appears to be a licensed track.

Ludovico Einaudi - Ascolta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_xqKAGMgNI

However, with it just being an instrumental, it blended perfectly. If SGU keeps doing it this way, it would be even better to watch. For me, the vocals were distracting. This time around, the music was really nice to listen to.

Anyone agree?

[YoshiKart64]

I wasn't the biggest fan of the Wray storyline. Wasn't this just a repeat of what we've seen before? However it did come together well with her pulling strings to get Eli's mum on Destiny even though she knows her partner wants to.

Overall there was a lot of great stuff in the episode but I'm not sure why they insist on cramming that much character development into one episode. I don't see any reason why they couldn't have had these stories develop alongside some forward momentum with the "Destiny" plot.