'Hope' (214) General Discussion

[The_Asgard_live]

Its clear we see his comment as two different things. Ill admit that you could be right and it may look like something to me that it isn't meant to look like. I just think that he wouldn't have singled out her being gay as something he didn't like if it wasn't a homophobic comment.

I was just trying to say 'racist', 'homophobe' etc... get thrown around pretty casual nowadays. Of course you could be right also and the person could respond with some good old fashioned homophobia and make me look like an ass. Never can tell I was just giving the benefit of the doubt. As I said, there are a couple reasons I can think of to find her lesbianism annoying that have nothing to do with homophobia.

[Kaiphantom]

People often confuse "tolerance" with "have to like it." There are certain things that some people just don't like, and not liking something does not make them bad. I don't like seeing two guys make out with each other; does that make me a homophobe? I don't mind two women as much, but generally I don't like to see relationship drama in my stargate at all, gay or otherwise.

I remember the days when the heaviest it got was when O'Neill beat around the bush with Carter, or Daniel was seeking his kidnapped wife.

So, before you call someone a homophobe, learn what the word means. It means a fear of homosexuality, and someone who just prefers to not see it, isn't a homophobe. Nor was the statement as such. And a person could like seeing two women make out, but not like seeing Wray and her partner in action, anymore than someone would like watching two fat people make out. Or they don't like it as written or acted, or they feel the storyline detracts from the plot.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I was just trying to say 'racist', 'homophobe' etc... get thrown around pretty casual nowadays. Of course you could be right also and the person could respond with some good old fashioned homophobia and make me look like an ass. Never can tell I was just giving the benefit of the doubt. As I said, there are a couple reasons I can think of to find her lesbianism annoying that have nothing to do with homophobia.

I get what your saying. You could 100% be correct and if the dude has some other reason for referring to it like that then of course ill apologize. Maybe I judged it a little quick and whatnot.

People often confuse "tolerance" with "have to like it." There are certain things that some people just don't like, and not liking something does not make them bad. I don't like seeing two guys make out with each other; does that make me a homophobe? I don't mind two women as much, but generally I don't like to see relationship drama in my stargate at all, gay or otherwise.

I remember the days when the heaviest it got was when O'Neill beat around the bush with Carter, or Daniel was seeking his kidnapped wife.

So, before you call someone a homophobe, learn what the word means. It means a fear of homosexuality, and someone who just prefers to not see it, isn't a homophobe. Nor was the statement as such. And a person could like seeing two women make out, but not like seeing Wray and her partner in action, anymore than someone would like watching two fat people make out. Or they don't like it as written or acted, or they feel the storyline detracts from the plot.

I already admitted I may have jumped the gun a bit. I just took it as a homophobic comment and didnt like it.

[Meshakhad]

Loved it. They brought Ginn and Mandy back! But in a new and different way.

For canceling this show, I CURSE SyFy! May they live in interesting times!

[GATEGOD]

Oh my god!!! I'm 5 minutes in and Ginn is back!!!! <3333 ahhh!!!

[KEK]

No sociopathic rush
No cloe dingbatisms
No 90210 drama
No wray lesbianism

This is quality programing going on right now. This was by far my favorite episode.

Homophobic?

[GATEGOD]

Haha! Best Ipod fail ever! <3

[Airlock]

I seem to be the only one who thinks this episode isn't very good. It was half-assed in so many ways. From the writing, to the production, to the actor's execution. It's as if they were making something out of nothing and not really succeeding. The episode felt like "meanwhile aboard the Destiny..." where the writers and production crew are taking the day off.

I'm guessing the production budget was being conserved for other episodes so they went with a simple theater-style chamber-type piece. There's nothing wrong with that -- if the episode is inspired. But I don't think it was. Stylistically it had the vibe of a webisode. Substantively it could pass for MTV.

My main gripe with it is: there's just too much convenience in the stones use and in the way things work out that it's not that compelling or believable. The writers really took the easy route and imho got really soft. They should have raised the stakes and D.C should have gotten destroyed. Afterall, what's a trivial U.S atrocity in the grand scheme of intergalactic travel and Destiny's ultimate mission? The show's ending anyway, so there might as well be some lasting consequences. Maybe it's those "consequences" that pave the way for a truly original premise to take the Stargate franchise.

I knew it was too good to be true that the writers had killed off Ginn and Perry. Not only did they bring them back, they threw in a bonus: immortality within the ship. Lame. It completely negates the impact of their actual on-screen deaths in "Malice." Bringing them back was #1 on the list for "obvious things to do." And they did. Keeping them around was #2. Did that, too.

If a character is going to come back it mind as well be Perry. I think she adds a great deal to the dichotomy of personalities aboard Destiny. She and Rush can super-collide into a mega force opening up many great storytelling possibilities that can put the Science back in Fiction.

My biggest complaint is really the puppy-love character drama that had me rolling my eyes the whole time because it just seemed so petty and typical and didn't really offer any new information. A question would get asked leaving the stage open for a potentially interesting or scientific answer and each time the opportunity to say something fascinating occured it was blown on meaningless dialogue. And I think the affectionate scenes were heavy-handed. Many of the scenes involving Eli and Scott dealing with their respective love interests felt like a redundant set of variations and the character interactions were quite shallow and uninteresting - felt like I was transported back to the halls of Junior High witnessing the trivial drama of kids as they experiment with dating. Not a whole lot there.

The casual and improvisatory style of awkward humor was clearly the "special guest star" of the episode. I really liked most of it, but the humor also got a little heavy-handed and ultimately it came off like it was compensating for the real lack of substance in every other area. The 2001 Strauss waltz playing over transition from the garden to the infirmary just didn't work for me. That piece is so overused in media, and SGU used it in the expected cliché form in same typical satirical manner. Stylistically it was just a bit over the top without really being warranted. It put the episode in the oddball category of weird off-beat attempts to introduce a new flavor to the show. The Brody/Volker stuff is starting to get borderline goofy. I hear comedic bassoon music accompanying Volker in recent episodes. I'm worried it's gonna get all-out slapstick Stooges

I don't know, I've watched "Hope" three times and haven't yet found my opinion to change. I just think this episode missed the mark. Especially with the clock ticking on the show's life, where every episode counts, I felt the cast and crew wasted an episode. This is one of the only episodes I've had a more negative evaluation than a positive one.

[GATEGOD]

^ Yep you are the only one.

Loved this episode. Just got done watching it fully. 9/10

[Vapor]

Since the cancellation note, I've found it more and more difficult to check out what the fandom thinks. Not because I don't care, but because it's just kind of sad knowing that, no matter what, the show is pretty much over. This episode brought me back.

It's easily the best episode since the end of the hiatus, and one of the better episodes of the season for me. Loved the character moments. Greer is amazing and I've always liked Volker, so I was glad to see some nice interactions between these two who hardly ever share major scenes. Mandy and Ginn were a complete shock to me, so that was wonderful.

Excellent episode. Well directed and well acted across the board.

Now...

No sociopathic rush
No cloe dingbatisms
No 90210 drama
No wray lesbianism

... I'll set aside the fact that I disagree with the dismissal of all the other crudely described elements to the show for the moment and just focus on the one that really irked me.

"No Wray lesbianism?" Really? How do you type something like that and NOT expect someone to accuse you of being a homophobe, whether you identify as one or not? If you had simply mentioned Wray as a character you dislike, that would be one thing, but you specifically single out the concept of her sexuality in a list of what you see as negative aspects to the show.

Ridiculous.

[knowles2]

My main gripe with it is: there's just too much convenience in the stones use and in the way things work out that it's not that compelling or believable. The writers really took the easy route and imho got really soft. They should have raised the stakes and D.C should have gotten destroyed. Afterall, what's a trivial U.S atrocity in the grand scheme of intergalactic travel and Destiny's ultimate mission? The show's ending anyway, so there might as well be some lasting consequences. Maybe it's those "consequences" that pave the way for a truly original premise to take the Stargate franchise.

I have to agree they should have destroyed Washington. I am sad they did not have the gut to do so.

[Airlock]

^^^Comes off homophobic.

I think the original criticism was that the writer's made Wray's character a lesbian not out of necessity to the story but for political reasons -- an arbitrarily chosen archetype.

It's not to say that it is preposterous that a lesbian be written as a character and all must me hetero. But let's face it, each of these characters was preconceived. Their names, personality traits, specialties, everything is thought out with a great deal of pretext -- so it is reasonable to conclude that Wray's being a lesbian was a calculated choice to introduce more variety in the character types -- and that it was likely debated and discussed in some boardroom fashion before the show started filming. Whether SGU's writers are trying to make a statement -- I don't know. For storytelling purposes I think it adds to the variety of the human dynamic. But in all honesty, my first reaction to Wray being a lesbian was: "Oh, that's the show trying to be cool and surprising." I got over that once I realized that nowhere in the show do they treat Wray with any kind of double standard. In the end it's about humanity and we are quite a diversified group.

[Eestlanna]

"No Wray lesbianism?" Really? How do you type something like that and NOT expect someone to accuse you of being a homophobe, whether you identify as one or not?

What's wrong with being honest and admitting nicely that you don't like it? Do everybody have to like it? Why gay people can manifest their views on the streets and straight people can't even say it out? I don't like it either and I'm not ashamed. I have a right to have my opinion, just like gay people too. I don't care what people do at home or with whom they do it. But I feel insulted when they think they can do it in front of me. So yes, I don't like that Wray lesbianism either. In fact, I don't like any of the sex scenes on that show.

[MattSilver 3k]

Can we not have this conversation in this thread? Opinions, varied from sensible to poisonous and all in between, are going to be subject to - LE GASP - opinion, and we really shouldn't have to deal with this in the discussion of an episode that had nothing to with it.

Like seriously, stop.

[Airlock]

Back on topic: Wray wasn't even in this episode.