'Hope' (214) General Discussion

[Kilgharrah]

Around two minutes in Volker talks about the 2001 theme which is orignally called "Also sprach Zaratustra"(see here). The titel is German and Volker's pronounciation is way too harsh (a problem that is quite common when Americans or other English speakers give German a try). Really stuck out to me when I watched it.

You were right. I rewatched it. Now I understand y I didn't understand it the first time. Thought there was something wrong with me. When I rewatched it, it made me ROFL. Volker is acting like a know-it-all and bragging about knowing its name in German and he can't even say it right. Best scene... in a comical way.

[Eestlanna]

Volker is acting like a know-it-all and bragging about knowing its name in German and he can't even say it right.

Well, there are many titles that are not in our native language and we have to pronounce them anyway somehow. And when we do it not so correctly, it's simply because we really can't do better. I think it's normal. I for example can read music for I know the notes, but it doesn't mean that I can sing them prima vista. I recognize their names, but as I don't have absolute pitch, I'm not able to sing them correctly.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Hope Review [SGU 214]

By xxxevilgrinxxx | Published: March 30, 2011 | crossposted at my personal blog

Situations aboard Destiny are often dire, with risk to the crew, to the ship, to the mission, or to humanity as a whole. Like faith, hope also survives and, in true Stargate Universe fashion, it is offered in several guises – the hope offered in the Destiny’s technologies and mission, the hope offered about people that are gone, and for people on Earth. The hope offered by the crew, to each other.

Coming after the events of the last episode, all thoughts are hanging on the fate of Earth but I’m going to hold off on that briefly.

It’s been more than twenty years since I’ve watched “2001 – A Space Odyssey” and even longer since I’ve read Nietzsche’s “Thus Spake Zarathustra” so I won’t go into great detail but it bears mentioning that this is the second episode that referenced “2001”. Granted, it’s a science fiction classic and it would probably be odd for Eli not to mention it but “2001” struck me as being central not only to the idea of hope but to the idea of Destiny and her mission.

To look at the two ships, perhaps it would be easy to toss out that they’re nothing alike. In 1968 when the film aired, I believe we had a very different idea of what our future in space would look like, but I raise this not to point out those differences but to point out the ways in which they are the same.

The willingness to explore and the hope about what we will find, about the cosmos or about ourselves, hasn’t changed. I think a good many of us can relate to Volker, sitting in his backyard, looking up at the stars and wondering about all that is out there.

To look further into “2001” and its references in SGU, both shows have alien beings that have progressed through different stages of being, in the end becoming pure energy. Perhaps it could even be said that they became gods, but in any case, they moved from one to state to another state, and we can reach them, interact with them, perhaps understand them and possibly even follow them. In “Thus Spake Zarathustra”, man is also seen on this continuum from something less to something more. And in the Stargate universe, man has followed the Ancients, learned of their progression from one state to another through the transformation known as Ascension.

The way to Ascension, in the way ‘currently’ used by the Ancients, is not available to humans but in the Destiny, humans may have at hand the initial method of achieving a sort of Ascension. This has been shown at several points: when Franklin sat in the chair and disappeared, only to reappear later on the bridge, along with Rush’s wife, Gloria. Now, those two are joined by Ginn and Amanda Perry. While perhaps not recognized as Ascension in the form that has been defined by previous Stargate incarnations, these humans have clearly progressed beyond the need for their physical bodies. Franklin’s body has disappeared, Gloria and Perry both remain on Earth and Ginn is buried on another planet, and yet they all exist, as energy, on the Destiny.

The mission to find the signal isn’t unlike the humans in “2001” seeking the monolith, and then there’s the idea of the ship’s AI. In “2001”, this was HAL 9000, a sentient, artificial intelligence that misled the astronauts about the mission. To deepen the ties between SGU and “2001”, HAL 9000 plays chess with astronaut Dave Bowman, mirrored by Rush and Eli playing chess. Given Rush’s nature, perhaps Rush is HAL in this scene.

This brings us back to hope, and Destiny’s AI. There are now four characters who have been uploaded into the ship. Is it possible that, upon the start of Destiny’s journey, the Ancients could have uploaded themselves into the ship and that has been the mind, the AI, that has guided her all this time?

Eli reassures Ginn that the current situation is a temporary one, that the crew will somehow find host bodies for their consciousnesses, but how probable, to say nothing of ethical, is that scenario? Who among the crew would give up their body and what would happen to the host’s consciousness? Why download into another strange body, when those people exist, as themselves, aboard Destiny, if in a different form?

It may be enough to be able to talk to loved ones and know that they continue to exist, in some form, but there is a terrible sadness in knowing that they can never touch. What if Eli, what if all of them, are going about it all wrong and the method is not to find very human host bodies for consciousness to reside in, but to join those others in their transformation?

Ginn may not be able to touch Eli in her current state but if she chose, I believe she could touch Franklin, or Perry or even Gloria and maybe this is hope for not only those “trapped” in the Destiny’s AI, but for all of the crew. To become beings of pure energy, their needs supplied by the Destiny, who has already shown that she’s more than capable of creating scenarios in the minds of the crew.

In Mandy and Ginn’s return, not only are two well-loved characters returning, but there is also hope that others who have been killed may be able to return as well, in some way, if only their signals could be found. That two of those people returned in the body of Chloe made for some great scenes between Eli, Scott and Rush, as all of their conflicting desires played out. Furthermore, it only stresses that simply having a consciousness in a physical body is not going to be a viable solution for those left to “share”. Chloe’s sacrifice echoes Greer’s, when she is willing to put her life at risk, to put herself in the chair in order to save the two others.

Briefly, by the end of the episode, we find out that the bomb has been defused on Earth and while this is positive, I don’t have hope that this is the end of the threat. That Telford is the one to return to Destiny certainly doesn’t make me feel any better about it.

Lastly, there is Greer and Volker.

The seriousness of the disease, the unfamiliarity with the tools, the inability to stone aboard a more capable doctor and TJ’s fear of failure all weight heavily on her shoulders and even Young’s faith in her can’t ease that. The entire “medical team”, such as it is, comes together to get her through it. There is a good deal of humour scattered through the episode and while I found laughing about erectile dysfunction to be a little juvenile, it certainly did break the tension and provided a much needed emotional break for those close to both Volker and Greer.

The decency displayed, especially by Brody, when he played Volker’s favourite piece of music, and by Greer were especially touching. That Greer stepped forward, despite having another donor available, didn’t really surprise me but that doesn’t take away from the impact, not only of the sacrifice itself but in what he endured to make good on it. Would the other man have stepped forward so easily? Doing the right thing is not just words for Greer, it’s something he lives. When Greer says that Volker would do the same for him, there’s a flicker of shame on Volker’s face, perhaps knowing that this certainly wasn’t true at one time. Perhaps that’s changed.

There was a tenderness I hadn’t expected to see so openly when Greer took Volker to the garden. Greer has great depth and to see that displayed so openly is a bold move. The onset of infection gives me a sinking feeling and I hope it gets resolved in the next episode. Without Greer, the Destiny’s spirit would be lessened.

A deeper than expected episode and, much like “2001 – A Space Odyssey”, something that needs a re-watch.

Rating: 9/10

[LtColCarter]

"No Wray lesbianism?" Really? How do you type something like that and NOT expect someone to accuse you of being a homophobe, whether you identify as one or not? If you had simply mentioned Wray as a character you dislike, that would be one thing, but you specifically single out the concept of her sexuality in a list of what you see as negative aspects to the show.

Ridiculous.

I concur. The writers haven't gone overboard on this, and Wray wasn't even in this episode. People think we've come a long way in the human rights realm...but comments like this poster's shows how much further we have to go.

^^^Comes off homophobic.

I think the original criticism was that the writer's made Wray's character a lesbian not out of necessity to the story but for political reasons -- an arbitrarily chosen archetype.

It's not to say that it is preposterous that a lesbian be written as a character and all must me hetero. But let's face it, each of these characters was preconceived. Their names, personality traits, specialties, everything is thought out with a great deal of pretext -- so it is reasonable to conclude that Wray's being a lesbian was a calculated choice to introduce more variety in the character types -- and that it was likely debated and discussed in some boardroom fashion before the show started filming. Whether SGU's writers are trying to make a statement -- I don't know. For storytelling purposes I think it adds to the variety of the human dynamic. But in all honesty, my first reaction to Wray being a lesbian was: "Oh, that's the show trying to be cool and surprising." I got over that once I realized that nowhere in the show do they treat Wray with any kind of double standard. In the end it's about humanity and we are quite a diversified group.

Very good points.

What's wrong with being honest and admitting nicely that you don't like it? Do everybody have to like it? Why gay people can manifest their views on the streets and straight people can't even say it out? I don't like it either and I'm not ashamed. I have a right to have my opinion, just like gay people too. I don't care what people do at home or with whom they do it. But I feel insulted when they think they can do it in front of me. So yes, I don't like that Wray lesbianism either. In fact, I don't like any of the sex scenes on that show.

Really? Welcome to 1950. I'm not certain what you mean about gay people manifesting their views on the street. However, focusing on one aspect of a person is a narrow point of view. Wray is a lesbian, yes, but there's so much more to her than just her sexuality. A person's sexuality is just a small part of what makes up that person. People need to look beyond labels.

Can we not have this conversation in this thread? Opinions, varied from sensible to poisonous and all in between, are going to be subject to - LE GASP - opinion, and we really shouldn't have to deal with this in the discussion of an episode that had nothing to with it.

Like seriously, stop.

Like, it was a good, like, conversation. But you are right...this episode didn't even have Wray in it...or any kind of sexuality for that matter. It was all about the human condition.

[Ukko]

Look what you people have done! You've got Matt asking folks to get back on topic..MATT!!
I hopt you're pleased with yourselves.

[Lahela]

Spoiler:

Nr.6 MCKAY, WOOLSEY AND JONAS QUINN NEXT WEEK!!!!!

Spoilers untagged? Thanks a lot and welcome to my ignore list.

[flappo]

I liked this episode, I hope Ginn will be on screen more often. Also can't wait for the next episode. Anyone else who ask himself why Greer acts like an uncredited hero?

[Eestlanna]

Spoilers untagged? Thanks a lot and welcome to my ignore list.

I'm so sorry, this was my son posting accidentally under my name while using my computer, not me and I deleted that post.

[Skiznot]

Overall, I think TPTB are starting to learn from their past mistakes on season 1 and first half of 2. Finally!!!! But it's too late, unfortunately.

I disagree, there weren't mistakes in the writing of SGU. The only mistakes may be with how Atlantis was handled. If you rewatch from the beginning you'll see that what is happening now was where they were headed all along. Everything like controlling the ship, working together, finding purpose were all part of the adventure from the beginning. The problem was many people didn't have faith in what the writers were doing and needed more immediate payoffs. For me the sense of wonder and mystery and the excellent character interactions were payoff enough but hope is just another example of things SGU was doing from the very start. It's an ongoing chapter style where something that happens in one episode can come back several episodes later; rewarding the fans.

[Lahela]

I liked this episode, I hope Ginn will be on screen more often. Also can't wait for the next episode. Anyone else who ask himself why Greer acts like an uncredited hero?

I often wonder at his motivations. We got a little glimpse in Lost, now another glimpse, but he's quite enigmatic in that way. He's a great character and not at all the stereotype I thought he'd be at first.

[LtColCarter]

I often wonder at his motivations. We got a little glimpse in Lost, now another glimpse, but he's quite enigmatic in that way. He's a great character and not at all the stereotype I thought he'd be at first.

I too often wonder what Greer's motivation is when he acts like a hero. He did it up big in this episode.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

This is the last ill sat about the homophbic topic because as other people said it is off topic.

The_Asgard_live is right when he brings up the comment may not be meant to be homophobic or something of that sort but its clear that a few people besides me took it that way. Maybe we should think about what we all say (me included) so we don't offend anyone?

Thats the last thing im going to say on the matter on this thread only because it is in fact off topic and im sure the people who are in the middle who dont care just want to talk about the episode. Maybe someone will make a topic in another part of gateworld where we can debate this. If so ill be there to express my belief and if not then whatever.

[Lahela]

I too often wonder what Greer's motivation is when he acts like a hero. He did it up big in this episode.

It almost seems self-destructive, but not in a Spencer way. Like he is trying to punish himself (somebody else made that suggestion earlier in the thread, but I can't find it now). In fact, in reminds me a lot of the way Jack was, especially early on.

[Shan Bruce Lee]

NUMA NUMA YAY!

Favorite part. Possibly the best humor since Window of Opportunity.

The scene with the music before the transplant was definitely on that level of funny.

i'm getting tired of his i'm fine i don't need rr. i understand sacirfing for others but

I'm starting to think that that's actually his way of relaxing. He's only in his comfort zone when he's active or helping someone.

[The_Asgard_live]

KEK isn't say that a person's sexuality can be conditioned. What he's saying is that we learn hate...or we are conditioned to hate. We're not born hating people of different races (for example). However, if you constantly hear that white people are evil, white people are dirty, etc. while you're growing up...you grow to hate them. (I am caucasian btw) People are constantly told that being gay is wrong, etc. Noone is born hating people on the basis of race, sexuality, age, gender. To use your food reference...my Mom used to always say that shrimp was nasty. Its all I heard my whole life. I tried shrimp for the first time when I was 38, but I'd not tried it before because I was conditioned to think it was nasty. BTW...I liked shrimp once I tried it!

Hmmm... this why its complicated. I absolutely agree that some people are conditioned to hate. I just don't know that what we are talking about here is that kind of hate. I believe that its the case that people can and are born where to them certain kinds of sexualities are as I said anything from uncomfortable to gross. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with them.

Not just sexualities either. You don't see alot of ugly people on tv? We are born to be drawn toward certain traits and repelled by others. That whole evolution thing...