'Cloverdale' (205) General Discussion

[SciFiRick]

I think that is really stretching it. Thier is nothing in the past about doubting his relationship in the past and that scene could be interperted differently

The dreams did tell us a few things. Example. It was interesting to see Scott making a pass at Lt James in the party scene, so is he really a one woman man? I thought that they built this up for the ending way to long.

[Gatefan1976]

When you mention the word "dark" with SGA I just shrug. Babylon 5 could be dark. Space: Above and Beyond could be dark. Deep Space Nine at times could be dark. New BSG....well, that may be too dark. But my point is that shows set such a tone that when a character actually had truly dark thoughts or was thinking about committing dark deeds I could buy it. But SG1 and SGA was full of too much fluff for me to ever buy into even the thought that Shep would consider suicide or commit a truly dark act. Heck I couldn't even take the villains that seriously because they were barely more threatening than COBRA of GI Joe. There were no Shadows, no Cylons. So I suppose I just went around the long way of saying that we have totally different views of what "dark" means when it comes to TV shows. To many of you SGU may be an inferior show compared to the previous Stargate series but is there any doubt that its a darker show?

Yes there is some doubt. I see SGU as even more superficially dark than the rest of the franchise because it practically forces the "darkness" down your throat, it does not (from my POV) flow naturally, and thus, to me, feels forced.

I agree with you that there is a basic differance between you and I in how we see the shows. To me, SG-1 and SGA can feel "dark" because it is not the norm for the show. SGU on the other hand can pull off "heroics" better because that is not the norm for the show.
(for example I liked the fact that Chloe's dad died trying to save everyone, It shows the "price" of being a hero)
It really comes down to personnal perception however. You like, I don't and never the twain shall meet. I'm happy to let it lie that way.

[Jim of WVa]

...Given Rush's ambigous amoral behavior I find him as a clergyman quite humorous...

Jelgate,

Rush played the role of a Justice of the Peace, which is a civil magistrate authorized to perform weddings in the United States.

[memnarch]

I like nearly every episode written by Brad Wright. This is the only one I actively dislike though. While it provided a limited insight into his feelings about Chloe, Scott's hallucination did not warrant an almost an entire episode of screen time. It felt so cliched and superfluous.

Although the action on the planet provided some interesting character moments, the entire episode seemed structured around the hallucination; making what would've been an otherwise mediocre off-planet episode feel contrived and stale.

In fact, I would say that I prefer "Life," because at least it provided information on the characters that we didn't already know. We already knew that Scott was hesitant about committing to Chloe. Scott could have actually spoken to Chloe more about it, but instead had to undergo an elaborate dream sequence, designed to maneuver Chloe into a situation where she was required to donate her blood to Scott.

Overall, I'd give it one star on the Gateworld scale (maybe *1/2).

[Frakes]

I fast-forwarded through the hallucination stuff. Been there, done that on many other shows.

[SSJPabs]

Stargate: Cloverdale!

My Rating: 7/10

This episode reminded me of the Chanegling. While this does mean that the writers were a bit lazy with the plot, they did make it fit into the SGU narrative. Notably, whenever they are on a planet it just feels so much more like Stargate than the constant bottle-shows. Park describes Scott as "the nicest guy on the ship." That's fine, but it's not very developed and niether is Scott. This episode reinforces some themes from Air especially in Scott's relationship and views of Young.

A couple other characters get good remarks. The conversation with Rush in his office really nails down how much Scott is looking for a father figure to hero worship. Eli pointing out that a lot like O'Neill said in "Grace" Scott's not a very deep person. However everything about the Scott/Chloe relationship just revolts me. It proved useful like when Chloe remarks on whether their relationship from Scott's point of view is something he is "supposed" to be doing. I think that came out of left field as I don't think Chloe was told about what happened at the party but since it was Scott's hallucination that's acceptable. In the end Chloe got points for curing Scott with the blueberry alien blood. Eli believed Chloe was doing some sort of Romeo/Juliet thing--and you could tell he thought less of her for it. Despite the events at the end of season 1 and start of season 2, Eli still had feelings for her. But it's moments like this that will enable him to really let go--and then I think he will be better for it.

Let's see I also liked how Park told Young that she didn't want the decision to abandon Scott to be on her. Exactly right. I was thinking "It shouldn't be up to her because your not capable of doing your job Young." This was the first episode in a very long time that I haven't just despised Young. Good for him.

As usual I enjoyed the Greer-Rush interplay. I just can't help but get the sense that these two people just understand each other on some base level no matter how different they are.

This was not a particularly awesome episode. But it was better than last week because they got off planet and we got to see the characters react to a situation in a way that developed their characters instead of being the situation. Aside from the action, that's what Stargate's been about when it's been at its best (though this is not one of the best episodes of the franchise).

[SciFiRick]

Though this was not my favorite episode, I did like:

Seeing Young smile & laugh more in this ep than any previous combined.

I liked it when Young told Scott, "Your a piece of work". The characters got to wear different clothing (not counting any "stones" transfers)

Young telling TJ "Don't make me come down there and get you"

The alien plants

Greer having the best time of his life and played hero in the end.

Chloe's secret is out

Rush didn't kill anyone

Brody's place looked like a cool place to go and he was behind the bar.

Eli standing in front of the Stargate horizon. Then looking back toward Chloe with a stare saying Chloe "Bye" and then stepping through the gate.

Using the gate as a weapon

[Kaiphantom]

Hey guys, did you know that Scott sees Greer as his best buddy? I didn't! I'm glad this episode used a dream sequence to tell us that! Oh oh, and another thing! He sees Young as a father figure, AND has some doubts about his relationship with Chloe! Boy, am I glad the writers took time out of the normal Destiny plot line to share these genius revelations to us.

Yes, I mock fun, but I had to get it out of my system. Now I can move onto my deeper thoughts about this episode.

...
...
...

Huh, not coming up with anything too deep to talk about. There's a dream that takes up a lot of time telling us stuff we already knew, and Greer tries to light plants on fire, doing his standard Greer-soldier thing. But not much else.

Although TJ does sum things up nicely with one phrase, "Rush is right!" Look for more of that in the future.

Speaking of which, here we have Rush taking the initiative in trying to help someone, but I guess we'll still have people focusing on how he must still be a sociopath or a psychopath, and that he must have killed people, even though those people aren't dead or actually were killed by someone else. Maybe they just weren't watching the same episodes we were, though...?

At least, we realize that Rush wasn't blackmailing Chloe as some wanted to believe. Since it was obvious that people would find out that Chloe is still super-Chloe. It just happened a whole lot sooner. Really not liking how they are handling it, though. Carter at least had other abilities to fall back on, such that Super-Carter didn't overpower her character. But I suppose that's about all they can do with Chloe.

Anyway, since the main topic of this episode was "THE" relationship, I suppose I should talk a bit about it. If it were the real world, they would be heading for a breakup soon, but I think they're gonna stick with the Hollywood romance: handsome guy + good looking girl that met and bonked within days of each other; of course it's gonna be true love and work out! I suppose if it were more subtle, I could probably stomach it. SG-1 and SGA didn't try to hammer the romantic relationships over your head, so yeah, feels like a teeny soap opera.

Ah well. There are episodes I am looking forward to, that promise to be fairly good, so I can overlook this one. I'm starting to get disillusioned, though, since I really liked SGU at the beginning, but as time goes on, I'm starting to really feel like the show is getting bogged down. At this point, all I wanted to know is what Destiny's mission is, and we'll find that out this season, so if it doesn't get renewed, I can live with it.

At this point, it actually might be interesting to kill Chloe off, and keep Scott as the super person. Killing Chloe would send the message the main characters really aren't safe!

[Fawaz Azim]

This episode was a hit and miss for me. It reminded me quite a bit of the Changeling and Merdian in some parts. However I honestly feel the episode would have been better without the dream sequences and had they been removed, there would have been more room for character development on the planet. And seriously come on. A planet where aliens are hunting you and the writers are obsessed with some pointless dream sequence. This was the perfect setting for a gun fight, explosions, people running, and screaming. I short absolute chaos. Where's the scene parallel to Hudson in Aliens going 'Die mother ****er, die mother ****er'. Of course there'd be no profanities, but you catch my drift. Quite disappointing for me. Maybe I'll change my mind once I watch it again, but for now its average.

[Gatefan1976]

Stargate: Cloverdale!

As usual I enjoyed the Greer-Rush interplay. I just can't help but get the sense that these two people just understand each other on some base level no matter how different they are.

Yeah, these are the two characters I dig the most because of thier, whilst totally different fields of experience, are so "honest" with themselves.
(Rush may be a lying suzzbucket, but he is consistantly "honest" with himself, and I respect consistancy)

[SSJPabs]

Hey guys, did you know that Scott sees Greer as his best buddy? I didn't! I'm glad this episode used a dream sequence to tell us that! Oh oh, and another thing! He sees Young as a father figure, AND has some doubts about his relationship with Chloe! Boy, am I glad the writers took time out of the normal Destiny plot line to share these genius revelations to us.

Maybe it's because I didn't have the ability to watch the back half of Season 1 much but I wasn't aware of just how desperate for approval Scott is. It could also be that I see Young as such a failure that I can't imagine anyone seeking his approval as opposed to simply being dedicated to the chain of command.

[Ashizuri]

I really liked this episode. A lot. Sure, both SG1 and SGA have done similar stories, as have most sci-fi shows, but I think this was really well done. I thought that the Changling was okay (the Teal'c/Daniel bits are the only memorable bits. . . . Well, and Jack the hot fireman ) and not even Jack could save the Real World for me (though, admittedly, I'm not a fan of Atlantis), but I loved every minute of this, which I wasn't expecting after Pathogen was such a snoozefest.

I loved the roles that the cast played in Scott's dream and how they reflected their real roles. I especially liked Justice of the Peace!Rush commenting negatively on Young and Scott only half-heartedly defending him. It seems that Scott is starting to doubt Rush. Greer was awesome with the flamethrowers. And he was wearing hot pink? And purple? I liked the Greer/Rush dynamic, as usual. They are definitely my favorite characters and they were both quite good in this ep. I really liked the wedding music playing over the final scenes, it created a really nice contrast, and the shots of them continuously redialing the gate were very cool. Young's "welcome home son" was a nice way to circle things back to the beginning. Also, Chloe (and Rush) coming up with the solution was a nice moment. I'm glad to see her finally have an active role to play. The aliens were cool too.

All in all, I'd say it was a solid episode, an 8/9 out of 10.

[CJ Master]

I pretty much lost interest after they showed that they wouldn't amputate his arm. I was looking forward to it, too.

[Kaiphantom]

I pretty much lost interest after they showed that they wouldn't amputate his arm. I was looking forward to it, too.

It's cool, dude. Scott still would have had his other arm, for when Chloe leaves him and James won't touch him anymore. Zing!

[Cold Fuzz]

I really liked this episode. A lot. Sure, both SG1 and SGA have done similar stories, as have most sci-fi shows, but I think this was really well done. I thought that the Changling was okay (the Teal'c/Daniel bits are the only memorable bits. . . . Well, and Jack the hot fireman ) and not even Jack could save the Real World for me (though, admittedly, I'm not a fan of Atlantis), but I loved every minute of this, which I wasn't expecting after Pathogen was such a snoozefest.

I loved the roles that the cast played in Scott's dream and how they reflected their real roles. I especially liked Justice of the Peace!Rush commenting negatively on Young and Scott only half-heartedly defending him. It seems that Scott is starting to doubt Rush. Greer was awesome with the flamethrowers. And he was wearing hot pink? And purple? I liked the Greer/Rush dynamic, as usual. They are definitely my favorite characters and they were both quite good in this ep. I really liked the wedding music playing over the final scenes, it created a really nice contrast, and the shots of them continuously redialing the gate were very cool. Young's "welcome home son" was a nice way to circle things back to the beginning. Also, Chloe (and Rush) coming up with the solution was a nice moment. I'm glad to see her finally have an active role to play. The aliens were cool too.

All in all, I'd say it was a solid episode, an 8/9 out of 10.

Agreed. It was certainly an interesting ride into Scott's subconscious. I also like the idea of putting him in a fictional small town (Cloverdale). Anyone who's lived or worked in a small town will recognize the social dynamic. Everyone's "alternate" role, everyone from Rush, Young, Volker, and even Telford as a local lawman, was interesting to watch.