'Cloverdale' (205) General Discussion

[lordofseas]

I thought it was a sappy and sweet episode of SGU, something the show needed. Continually having dark episodes is irritating.

[nx01a]

I loved how it went from undermining the 'wife, 2.5 kids, white picket fence' dream / showing it to sometimes be a nightmare... to all out Greer-with-a-flamethrower action!

[Shai Hulud]

Make progress, and make it often enough. Once or twice a season isn't enough.

Nail. Head. Bang!

Quarter of the way through the second season and the main plot line - Destiny's true reason for being launched by the Ancients and the fact that they never intended to get back 'home' - is conspicuous by its absence. The producers and writers really are missing a trick here because the Ancient storyline / mythos really is IMHO one of the most intruiging aspects of the SG franchise.

[antipodal]

Just because she isn't a genius doesn't mean she can't put two and two together. The stuff got on her clothes yet didn't infect her despite touching her. She took the chance and let the plant sting her. It worked. It wasn't dangerous to anyone but herself because she left the group behind, a fair distance at that, and made her infection apparent the moment she came back.

I thought it was very convenient that Chloe and Scott have the same blood type that would allow for direct blood transfusion. I mean, what are the odds? And how did TJ know that they did? It would be easy to know Scott's blood type (it's on his dog tags), but Chloe's?

[garhkal]

The internet yet again shows how different people are!
[edit] Would people really watch Irresistible over Cloverdale? Say it isn't so!
[edit again] Oh, Family Ties, one of the few eps I refuse to watch a second time. And I could have done without watching it a first time.

That and one false step are the only 2 SG eps i will willfully skip..

[JadedWraith]

That and one false step are the only 2 SG eps i will willfully skip..

Yep, but even False Step has a Daniel meltdown that makes me giggle.

And come on: Cloverdale wasn't that bad. It had a lot of redeeming features, we got some insight how Scott feels about his travel companions, watched Chloe show some initiative, for once, it raised the question of the possible infection of Scott and we watched Greer being his heroic self with flame throwers. I could do without the mutant plants, but heck, it's Halloween (that's what you get for over using the unwither in Farmville )

[Misfits]

Yep, full points!
I wonder whether Rush has been thinking about the deaths he's caused and wanted to help save a life this time.

Imagine that! This is the only time when Rush's schemes actually saved a life.
If it wasn't for Rush, Cloe would still be in quarantine and probably not in the away team, which would have led to Scott's death.

[Misfits]

[I]>Poor Rush. His plans for Chloe won't be coming to fruition.

Now we can call him Nicholas 'Wiley Coyote' Rush.
All schemes that he tries evaporates so quickly.
You would think a brilliant, motivated scientist would be able to achieve better schemes to further his goals.

[blackluster]

I greatly enjoyed this episode. Normally I'm not a fan of these kind of divergences from a running plot, but I found the nature of the illusion interesting in that the things that were happening and the things that were said linked so closely with the real world the characters were experiencing.

[Misfits]

It's not as simple as you make it out to be. There are a number of factors, among which is how much the show costs, vs. the viewership it is pulling in. Also, the last season of SGA pulled in an average of 1.3(and previous seasons got between 1.5 and 3.0!). Season two of SGU has pulled in so far:

Intervention: 1.175
Aftermath: 1.07
Awakening: 1.222
Pathogen: 0.974
Cloverdale: 1.01

If SGA was canceled when it had better ratings, what chance do you think SGU has? And note the two worse performers in terms of ratings, which were also the two worst episodes this season, as far as yawn-factors go. Objectively speaking, Cloverdale is one of the worst SGU episodes, and one of the worst SG episodes in general, in the minds of the viewership.

If you want to save the series, it might behoove you to find out why. I've already outlined it.

SGA had a solid 5 seasons, thanks to it's ratings. Let's see if SGU can do the same. If I were a network exec, looking at the more expensive nature of SGU, and the fact that it's getting worse ratings than SGA, I'd wonder who the idiot was that canceled SGA, and why we're not pulling the plug on SGU.

Note: I don't particularly want to see it canceled, but I'd be hard-pressed to justify it. And I've already provided my reasons for why the studio is killing it, and how I would save it.

You forgot that everything is relative.

Is SGU numbers lower than last year? Yes. However, that is not the ONLY factor.
There are many channels of viewership that needs to be added, and then, the last factor would be the percentage of viewers available.

Just canceling a show would be short-sighted without a capable replacement.

[Perelandra]

I really liked this episode. I liked it for many of the reasons that Petra above listed. I loved seeing how Scott saw those close to him in his subconcious.
I also liked the real world story line on the planet and I thought Rush was great in this one. I'm really liking SGU a lot. I know it's different than SGI and SGA but I'm liking the focus on character development and the longer story arc.
I'm also liking the fact that it's more realistic(if you can call wormhole, FTL travel realistic)and ends don't always get wrapped up so neatly. I am a huge SGA fan and I was dissapointed when it was canceled-but I wanted to give SGU a chance and I'm glad I did.

[Kaiphantom]

Imagine that! This is the only time when Rush's schemes actually saved a life.
If it wasn't for Rush, Cloe would still be in quarantine and probably not in the away team, which would have led to Scott's death.

It actually wouldn't be the only time, but I actually agree with you for once. I wonder how many people will go, "Hmm, well, if it wasn't for Rush, someone would have died." If it wasn't for Rush, people would have died and been stranded on the planet in Incursion, and that isn't even the first time he's helped saved lives. Reminds me of an old poster that had a picture of a puppy on it: "When I do good, no one remembers. When I do bad, no one forgets."

You forgot that everything is relative.

Is SGU numbers lower than last year? Yes. However, that is not the ONLY factor.
There are many channels of viewership that needs to be added, and then, the last factor would be the percentage of viewers available.

Um, Nielsen ratings are used because they aren't relative; they are used a direct comparison. And you sound a lot like JM: "Well, um, yeah, ratings are lower... but but but! They aren't counting downloads, yeah!" Always an excuse, when he didn't need the download excuse before when ratings were high. Also, ratings determine ad revenue. Even if you feel they are relative, that affects the bottom line over at Syfy, for how much they can charge for commercials.

Just canceling a show would be short-sighted without a capable replacement.

Caprica was just canceled. It's Syfy, dude. At the least, they can replace things with wrestling until they find some other syfy show.

[Blackhole]

SGU is much more of a character driven show. SG-1 and Atlantis were much more action driven shows. Since the show’s inception there has been a segment of the Stargate viewer ship that has been lamenting that SGU should be more like the prior two. I am here to tell you that after one full season and 5 episodes into the second season guess what - it is not and it is never going to be. The show is much more realistic; the characters are far more flawed and whatever problem or turmoil isn’t going to work out by each episode’s end. Whether this difference will lead to early cancellation or ten seasons remains to be seen. I am not saying that this segment isn’t entitled to their opinion of dissatisfaction I am just saying there comes a point when SGU needs to be appreciated on its own unique merits.

I want to add that personally, I prefer action driven shows and this story from a dream is my least favorite type of episode. Why then am I supporting this episode? Because imo I recognize that it is an effective vehicle to promote character development and understanding.

Let me be clear:

The point I am making is whether an episode is good or bad is largely a matter of personal opinion. We all have different tastes and are going to like some episodes more than others. It is like arguing an apple is better than an orange.

Another poster attempted to “prove” using Nielsen statistics that Cloverdale was a bad episode. I disagree and I don’t think their statistics support their conclusions. Cloverdale’s rating was only 15% less than the highest of this season and was 8% above the average episode rating. I certainly am not an expert on Nielsen ratings but I do know that there can be a host of factors that can determine and affect an individual episode’s rating especially when the differences between them are relatively small. I don’t think the ratings of the five episodes quoted are significantly statistically different to warrant the conclusion that Cloverdale is widely viewed as a poor episode.

The episode reinforced that Scott has an idealistic view of Young both as a commander and a father figure. We learned from his conversation with justice of the peace Rush that Scott is aware of Young’s developing alcohol problem and later at the wedding when Young becomes very defensive after he asks him for advice Scott realizes that Young doesn’t have all the answers and is not handling the pressure of command well. He realizes he needs to start thinking more for himself and make his own decisions both personally and as second in command.

It was made clearer Scott loves Chloe but is torn with doubts. He knows they are very different and his love may be partially motivated out of a sense of obligation and duty. He recognizes his attraction for James and her strong feelings for him.

And imo the last interchange between Young and Scott and Chloe was particularly telling. Young appeared clearly upset and angry that Chloe’s blood had been used to save Scott. Instead of being relieved he was cold and formal when he notified them that they would both be placed in indefinite quarantine. It was not his fault Chloe’s blood was used to save him considering the alternative was death. Scott appeared very surprised, hurt and betrayed that his commander whom he held in such a high regard was appearing to going to cavalierly lock them both up. I suspect Young’s poor handling of the situation will be a very strident wake up call to Scott and will damage his relationship with him.

I made this point in another thread and someone pointed out that Young may have been upset because he hadn’t been told that Rush’s extraction procedure hadn’t worked on Chloe. The poster made a very valid point, one which I hadn’t considered.

That being said, I still maintain that Young was short sighted to treat Scott and Chloe in this fashion. I am not suggesting that Young’s decision was wrong just the manner in which he handled it. Given what Rush has falsely told Young I can certainly understand how he may now view them as a possible threat. In actuality, I don't think the behaviors she has exhibited warrant their confinement only monitoring.

Another poster indicated that from an upcoming preview…

Warning – possible future episode spoiler:

Spoiler:

Scott takes a swing at Col Young in the next episode. If this is true then it would confirm my assertion. We will have to wait and see to find out.

[nx01a]

Imagine that! This is the only time when Rush's schemes actually saved a life.
If it wasn't for Rush, Cloe would still be in quarantine and probably not in the away team, which would have led to Scott's death.

For some reason, considering that it's been Rush's tampering with Destiny that's led to most of the crap that's befallen the crew since the LA incursion, I think that he's responsible for them being on that planet in the first place. It wasn't stated in the episode, but it's what I think happened.

[morbosfist]

For some reason, considering that it's been Rush's tampering with Destiny that's led to most of the crap that's befallen the crew since the LA incursion, I think that he's responsible for them being on that planet in the first place. It wasn't stated in the episode, but it's what I think happened.

Rush left the autopilot on. The ship could just as easily have stopped there on its own.