'Cloverdale' (205) General Discussion

[morbosfist]

Anybody else notice that Greer left the dialing device behind?

He leaned down just before heading in the gate, so he could have grabbed it. If not, may be a plot point for later.

[nx01a]

I checked it again. Neither Greer nor Chloe pick it up. I'm hoping it's not just a goof. If the blue aliens get it...

[morbosfist]

I checked it again. Neither Greer nor Chloe pick it up. I'm hoping it's not just a goof. If the blue aliens get it...

He picked it up. You can just barely see it.



Bottom left corner, just right of the logo.

[nx01a]

Hmm. I guess he did. Greer's good.

[mmaadd]

Oh look everybody an episode where there is a dream sequence. Wow, that is a first for the SG franchise. I thought season 1 sucked. Cloverdale has sealed it for me. I am not watching anymore episodes of SGU!

So long and thanks for the fish.

[jocknuke]

Cloverdale seemed very cliche to me. I have seem this plot, probably 100 times.
The entire story around the wedding was just painful. To me this episode was a waste.

We are approaching the middle of second season, we are yet to find out what is Destiny's potential. Every episode seems to go in a whole different direction.

I give 1/10- poor

[hercthx]

Ok just finished watching this ep for a second time. I got to say i am really hooked. I found myself actualy saying "awsome!" when cloe turned and her face was half blue. You guys know what amid all this detracting and speculation you know what I dont care anymore I really don't.I know that I have found a show that I can really get lost in, and even if it ends I am perfectly pleased to have been able to at least watch what has been shown. I have finaly been givin a Stargate for ME, and well damn it thats all that matters to me. that parts with Eli staring back at the closed gate, man i reall felt that. the dream sequences were very fluid and tied in perfectly to what was going on in real life. and that last shot....in a word, beautifull. At this point no matter what you lot say, my advice to the writers is forget all of us, write for yourselves. you will never please everyone. and those of us that like what you are writing will join you for the ride. those that don't well, they will eventualy find their own adventures. i really cant wait for the next episode. soap opera or not, sci-fi or not. wher this show is going whatever it is i am digging it. so much that I am now at the point to let the detracters detract, the doom sayers doom on, and me, I'll be tuning them out and tuning SGU in from now on.

[garhkal]

It actually wouldn't be the only time, but I actually agree with you for once. I wonder how many people will go, "Hmm, well, if it wasn't for Rush, someone would have died." If it wasn't for Rush, people would have died and been stranded on the planet in Incursion, and that isn't even the first time he's helped saved lives. Reminds me of an old poster that had a picture of a puppy on it: "When I do good, no one remembers. When I do bad, no one forgets."

That's an interesting quote. Almost like what we Electronic techs/Information techs (ET/ITs) in the navy have.
no one cares about us comm guys, unless something is broke!

Well, if you're going to be looking at cold numbers, Young got no one killed at Icarus Base, by his decisions. Whereas, Rush, by dialing the 9th chevron address, has gotten 8-9 people marooned in 'Faith' Planet, 80+ people stranded on Destiny, and numerous people killed so far, starting with Senator Armstrong and Sgt. Riley.

There were a number which did die though.

And his lacking the spine to decide, got how many killed during the LA incursion?

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/76933-FAN-REVIEWS-Cloverdale-(205)?p=12028558&viewfull=1#post12028558

Cloverdale Review [SGU - 205]
By xxxevilgrinxxx | Published: October 30, 2010

Living in Canada, I have to wait until Friday to watch the latest episode of Stargate Universe, which means that, from Tuesday on, I often treat myself to a great deal of spoilers from the airing in the US. Not clips mind you, but screencaps, often the transcript and of course, a great deal of talk about the episode on forums and blogs. From all of that, I already knew that this was going to be a “dream sequence”. I knew that Scott was going to offer us a vision of people that are on the Destiny with him. All that and more. You’d think that from all that, I would “spoil my dinner” and perhaps be utterly let down by Cloverdale when my chance to watch it came around. That has yet to happen and it didn’t happen with Cloverdale last night.

It would be easy to say that what Scott experienced was a simple “dream experience” but if the man was going to dream, wouldn’t he dream about home? A home filled with people that he had to know better and be closer to than the people aboard Destiny? Where was his son, his former girlfriend? I believe the town may well have been his home town but the fact that it was populated with people from aboard Destiny is a very subtle way of turning this dream into something quite different.

All of the characters appear to serve a dual purpose. They highlight Scott’s slightly idealized and perhaps naive view of those around him, selecting the positives and pressing the negatives into the background. The second purpose serves what mind altering states have served since the beginning of time: to impart knowledge through the tapping of parts of the mind that we tend to shove into the background in day to day life.

There’s truth in both of course. I won’t go through all of the characters, but there’s a few that really stood out for me.

Young is a father figure to Scott as well as to others he’s taken under his wing. Imperfect, but unlike Scott’s own father, dream Young is always there, always reliable, no matter what state he is in. From dream Young himself, as well as other characters like Telford and Rush – all authority figures to Scott – the idea that Young is not as perfect as Scott would like to make him is clear. Young doubts himself and admits that he doesn’t have the answers but that there is a “right thing” that needs to be done. What that is is something Scott will have to decide for himself.

In all of the dream characters there is a moment when the curtain is pulled back and a delivery comes from the real character. This happens in a heartbeat when Young goes from a jocular, aw shucks dad to a harder Young, leaning in to order Scott to “wake up”. There’s a lot to wake up from. Scott needs to wake up from the idealized world he’s lived and continues to live in. He needs to wake up from the idea that if he only follows this inner script that he’s written for himself, that he can change everything that has gone before. He needs to wake up to the fact of who he is and stop pretending to be someone else because he thinks it’s right. He needs to wake up to the reality of Chloe and how he really feels about her because he continues to exist in an idealized dream world where he can be the man he wants to be if only he can pretend long enough.

Telford’s warning while they are in the police car speaks to Scott as much as to Telford and I don’t doubt that there will come a day when Scott won’t be able to reconcile with the things that he’s done, when he’s going to look back at them with despair and wish he could undo them but can’t. Telford was brainwashed of course, but isn’t self-delusion a form of brainwashing? If Scott continues on the path that he is on, he will never be able to undo events he sets in motion and by the end of the episode, that path may well be set.

One of the most interesting dream manifestations is that of Rush. Even before I watched the episode last night, I had really wondered at the notion of Rush as Justice of the Peace. Given where all of the rest of Scott’s dream visions fit with his life, with all of his friends taking their expected roles, I really had to sit and think: Why this?

And this is where it got interesting for me. In all of the other visions, characters took expected roles, ones we have seen them fulfil. From father to friend to brother to lover. In Rush comes something different and it wasn’t until I started to take a really close look at Rush’s office that it dawned on me. In this vision, Rush plays Destiny, or, in his role as Justice of the Peace, Rush plays Destiny’s appointee.

When Scott enters Rush’s office, he walks into an almost claustrophobically narrow room, one that could easily have been shot in a way that wouldn’t make it look that way. In a sense, the room is not unlike a corridor on Destiny, with Rush tucked away behind a desk that separates him from anyone else and makes it all but impossible to get close to him. Then there are the repeated ring images. From the horse brass by the door, the plaque on the wall, the assorted knick knacks behind the desk, even down to the ring on Rush’s boots, the image of the Stargate is repeated throughout.

As Destiny’s appointee, Rush has a dire message of his own: You are going to die, Matthew. Of course, we all know that we are going to die someday but it’s not so much actual physical life that Rush is speaking of. I believe Rush is speaking in the “death is change” sense, in that something in Matthew is going to die. Die and become something else or simply fade away. In any case, the message has been delivered before Scott can marry and make that choice. That Destiny’s appointee holds the ceremony for that death to happen is staggering and will likely become clearer as the fallout from this episode plays out in the future.

By the end of the dream, the damage may be done and though we have seen a good deal of truth played out, the truth can be a hard thing. Trust and friendships may well be broken and both Chloe and Scott, now that they have this thing, may not want it anymore. It is in its deliberate and graceful delivery, Cloverdale exceeds all expectations and becomes something more. It was like watching Muhammed Ali. Every line delivered. Every expression, every flourish delivered. This episode has some of the tightest writing I have seen in a TV show in a long time and I really look forward to the fallout from this episode. From the closing scenes, there’s going to be a hell of a lot of fallout.

Rating: 9/10

[Perelandra]

Great review, EG. I never thought about the angle with Rush representing Destiny but it makes perfect sense- Or the repeating rings. I'll have to watch it again to see the rings- I didn't notice that before.
I always have to watch the episode a couple of times to get everything in.
I also thought this was a great episode.
Interesting that Camille Wray had no part in Scott's dream, either.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Stargate already tapped into one of my greatest fears with swarms of giant killer insects in Bane. I suppose it was only a matter of time before they tapped into my other one of giant killer plants.


I can't think of anything specific yet, but for some reason I feel like I just watched something with this exact premise of "putting all the characters into different but normal everyday scenarios, that might be a vision or something". Maybe just because it's used as often as it is. Maybe I'm thinking of the flash-sideways from LOST? I don't know.

Anyway, at the beginning of the episode I actually felt like this was somehow inspired by "The Man Who Has Everything." It had idyllic dream worlds brought on by some kind of alien plant, where any attempt to get back to "reality" caused him pain. And even a reference to removing one's arm. I was almost waiting for Superman to show up.

As far as the episode itself was I found it pretty good, but I don't know if I was especially crazy about the fact that this didn't seem to continue much with overarching plot on Destiny but overall what they did didn't seem too much of a problem.

I will say this though, I'm glad we got at least a little bit of Cloe and Scott's relationship onscreen. For what is basically the only "active" ship in the franchise now, the TPTB really haven't shown anywhere near enough of it for me to take it as seriously as they seem to want me to. It feels like most of their relationship as been in wordless music montages that take up a few seconds of a scene at a time. It was always like that too, I still can't believe the way the relationship started onscreen back in Light.

I was rather entertained by the notion of the machinations of one alien threat saving them from the threat of another. It sorta reminded me of Harvey saving Crichton from Scarren and Nebari mind manipulation in Farscape's Season 2.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I was rather entertained by the notion of the machinations of one alien threat saving them from the threat of another. It sorta reminded me of Harvey saving Crichton from Scarren and Nebari mind manipulation in Farscape's Season 2.

That IS entertaining. I noticed that upon watching - especially when they tried the venom, which was in itself used to counteract another alien problem from a previous episode. I can't help think of that old kid's song about the person who swallowed a fly and all these other things went down the hatch to fix that problem

[nayanroo]

I liked seeing Chloe's selflessness in the face of danger; that kind of attitude is part of what made Stargate Stargate for me. I saw it with Jack and his "never leave anyone behind" attitude. It was good to see that - a happy point in this otherwise constant downer of a season. XD

[Commander Zelix]

Cloverdale mark a SGU premiere for me. It's the first episode of the series I have been able to rewatch 2 times since the premiere (of air 1+2). I've appreciated the episode much more on the second watch. Especially since I'm a bit ready and open to the humor and nice parallel of the Clovedale village. For example, Telford when he talks a bit about himself and not knowing what is the real you anymore (clearly talking about himself too and his brainwashed experience when he was made to watch himself to crazy thing). Now I feel bad for having giving it only a 6.5 on my first review on this thread.

[Krisz]

A great review Evilgrin, I'd green you if I could!

You've touched on everything that made this one of the most absorbing episodes of SGU for me.

I noticed all the gate imagery in Rush's 'office' and thought the whole depiction of Rush really brought home just how much he is responsible for initiating everything that goes on. Depicting him as the 'Justice of the Peace' showed that he was the one that puts seal of approval on Scott's future by the fact he was the one that makes the marriage legal in the eyes of society. It was a subtle reminder of the fact that everything on Destiny is subject to his OK if I really look at it. He has the knowledge and 'authority' through knowing the codes and much more about the Destiny and its purpose than anyone else.

Young was interesting too. He continues to be my favourite character. In this he was portrayed as if he sees that everything is going to be alright, depicted by how much he smiled and laughed, a stark contrast to the depressed character we see on Destiny. It didn't matter about Scott's apprehension of the future. This showed that in the mind of Scott, Young is not facing the situation well and some decisions may be suspect as he loses himself in alcohol. Here is the beginnings of starting to lose respect for a 'loved' one as they disintegrate and lose touch with those around them due to depression and alcoholism. How long is it before Scott starts to challenge the person he sees as a father figure out of sheer frustration of being unable to help him because Young can't see what he's doing by his behaviour.

There was a lot of bringing threads about where characters have been and are going together in this episode. Scott's and Chloe's relationship has changed big time! What will this human-alien hyrid couple bring into the mix? Scary thought, the movie 'Species' comes to mind. The alien part of Chloe has found her way to reproduce!

It was how characters were portrayed in Scott's vision that really captured my interest in this episode. I enjoyed the DS9 episode 'Distant Voices' for the same reason. I like seeing how a character perceives those around them and their perception of how those around them perceive them, it puts another angle on the future interactions between them. This show was always about the characters from the start and I'm really enjoying how it continues to be. It's what TBTB said SGU is about, and they don't stray away from that.

Even though this episode had the 'adventure' with all that went on on the planet, it was secondary the way I saw it. I really didn't notice much about the plants, tried to ignore the BC forest again! Thought we were told they weren't going to show up again for locations, even though the vegetation was 'blue' it was still the old 'Stargate' forest! I think the episode was always about character development in the face of yet another crisis, not about the crisis itself, like the final bug confrontation in 'Starship Troopers' for example. (I mention this movie because Greer's sheer exhilaration of destruction reminded me of that scene when they were trapped in the compound). That's why I guess this episode will highlight the fact that if the characters do nothing for a viewer, then SGU is not very watchable in my opinion.