'Cloverdale' (205) General Discussion

[Kaiphantom]

Something that is communicable by blood transfusion is not always transferable by all bodily fluids. As someone else pointed out, you can get Malaria by coming in to contact with contaminated blood but you can not get it through sexual intercouse. Many diseases that are aqcuired from a parasite/bug bite are not sexually transferable, so the idea that Scott should already have been infected is faulty. Eli, however, you're right about and he should get checked now that they know her blood can infect others.

Malaria doesn't make you black out and take independent actions that you aren't aware of. What's affecting Chloe can't simply be something confined to one or two fluid types. Rush is right; it's genetic, and your genes are present in everything that is a part of you.

[mparsons1981]

Well i watched it again - surely it couldnt be that bad?

Wrong!

Worst ever episode of Stargate.

[Blackhole]

What you say has some merit, but you're not listening to the actual point being made. The truth is, we don't know what the aliens did to Chloe, and the only hint is that Rush said something may be happening to her on a genetic level. So what we're discussing here are possibilities, not absolute truth.

If what is happening to Chloe is affecting her genes, which seems likely, then those genes are present in all her bodily fluids. Scott would thus have been exposed to them repeatedly for almost a year.

It'll be interesting to see exactly how Scott is affect and for how long; if he seems to return to normal, then it is likely whatever the aliens did was tailored to Chloe. But that turns Chloe into a super-doctor, able to cure most anything with a blood transfusion with no last repercussions. If it stays, then we have two super people, and that's one too many; something has to happen to one of them.

To repeat: If it's genetic, then Scott has already been exposed, especially if that has entailed oral sex. That is what can make it a bit of a plot hole. I trust I don't have to go into exactly how a man is vulnerable to STD's and how they can take in bodily fluids.

A person's DNA (genes) is present in every cell in their body and every bodily fluid has some cells in it. The point is what is effecting the change in Chloe's cells and is that causative agent present in her blood and bodily secretions and can it affect other people? If it is a virus or nanocytes designed to affect humans then Scott would probably be at risk. At this point all we know is Scott has been having intimate contact with Chloe for a long time and has shown no symptoms. This fact tends to suggest that it is not communicable via bodily fluids. Although it is not definitive as men can have unprotected sex with HIV positive women for sometime without caching it. We also know there are protective cells in Chloe's blood that were transferred via the transfusion. We don't know if the causative agent that produced these cells was transferred as well.

Another fact is if the aliens designed a communicable agent that requires blood to blood as the means of transference it is a very ineffective way to spread it among Destiny's crew. My point which you as usual ignored is if the aliens intended to disseminate an infective agent throughout the crew they wouldn't have designed it on the off chance that the infected person would have a blood transfusion with someone else. Vis a vis, that means imo that the risk to Scott is small and the need to quarantine him is low. I agree that Chloe needs to be watched I don't think she needs to be locked up. The only reason Young feels the need to do is because Rush lied when he told him that Chloe was responsible for the command changes to the ship that he has covertly been implementing.

And for the record oral sex is a poor way to transmit HIV. The HIV virus is present in low concentrations in saliva and vagina secretions. It is in much higher concentrations in semen. That is why whoever is on the receiving end of the semen is at a much higher risk of infection. That is why women and homosexual men are far more likely to become infected.

[Krystal]

This one I have to record because it didn't caught my attention so I have to admit that I fast forward almost all the scenes, see some of the planet but at some point lost interest and decide to continue fast forward. Definitely a low in the Season, personally for me the worst so far, never happen to me before with Stargate but it was almost unwatchable. Hopefully the next episode will pick up the tune.

[Kaiphantom]

A person's DNA (genes) is present in every cell in their body and every bodily fluid has some cells in it. The point is what is effecting the change in Chloe's cells and is that causative agent present in her blood and bodily secretions and can it affect other people? If it is a virus or nanocytes designed to affect humans then Scott would probably be at risk. At this point all we know is Scott has been having intimate contact with Chloe for a long time and has shown no symptoms. This fact tends to suggest that it is not communicable via bodily fluids. Although it is not definitive as men can have unprotected sex with HIV positive women for sometime without caching it. We also know there are protective cells in Chloe's blood that were transferred via the transfusion. We don't know if the causative agent that produced these cells was transferred as well.

Given that her blood cured Scott, that would disprove your notion of "it cannot be transmitted via bodily fluids." That's the scientist process at work; need only one example to disprove.

Another fact is if the aliens designed a communicable agent that requires blood to blood as the means of transference it is a very ineffective way to spread it among Destiny's crew. My point which you as usual ignored is if the aliens intended to disseminate an infective agent throughout the crew they wouldn't have designed it on the off chance that the infected person would have a blood transfusion with someone else. Vis a vis, that means imo that the risk to Scott is small and the need to quarantine him is low. I agree that Chloe needs to be watched I don't think she needs to be locked up. The only reason Young feels the need to do is because Rush lied when he told him that Chloe was responsible for the command changes to the ship that he has covertly been implementing.

This is an argument no one is making. No one has said that the aliens made it communicable, or if they did, they somehow flubbed it. The reason Young is locking them up, is to prevent them from doing anything to the ship.

And for the record oral sex is a poor way to transmit HIV. The HIV virus is present in low concentrations in saliva and vagina secretions. It is in much higher concentrations in semen. That is why whoever is on the receiving end of the semen is at a much higher risk of infection. That is why women and homosexual men are far more likely to become infected.

Apparently you aren't aware that men can perform oral sex on women.

[Selene1212]

They don't know her blood can infect others. They only know that the blood introduced into Scotts system killed the fungi.

ETA I think the BA's want her to have babies, therefore it won't present itself in Eli or Scott.

[Ashizuri]

Given that her blood cured Scott, that would disprove your notion of "it cannot be transmitted via bodily fluids."

We've all agreed that her blood can transmit whatever it is she's carrying, what we're arguing is that there is no proof that it can be transfered any other way.

Apparently you aren't aware that men can perform oral sex on women.

I....don't know how you came to that conclusion at all, considering his response to you pointed out why women/homosexual men are at higher risk of contracting HIV through oral sex than straight men, which means he's aware that men can perform this act.

[Blackhole]

Given that her blood cured Scott, that would disprove your notion of "it cannot be transmitted via bodily fluids." That's the scientist process at work; need only one example to disprove.

Again you really need to actually read what I post.

It is possible what conferred immunity were antibody like cells that once present in Scott's blood conferred temporary immunity. Once these cells die Scott would loose his immunity. If the changes to Chloe are on a genetic level and not caused by a still present virus or nanocytes then the causative agent may not be transferable but the protective cells could. . The fact that Chloe and Scott have been exchanging bodily fluids for some time tend to suggest that the causative agent is not communicable by bodily fluids.

This is an argument no one is making. No one has said that the aliens made it communicable, or if they did, they somehow flubbed it. The reason Young is locking them up, is to prevent them from doing anything to the ship.

This point I agree with.

The only reason Young feels the need to do is because Rush lied when he told him that Chloe was responsible for the command changes to the ship that he has covertly been implementing. Of course Young feels the need to lock them up. I don't think what she has actually done so far necessitates their being locked up. Chloe and Scott need to be watched I don't think they need to be quarantined.

Apparently you aren't aware that men can perform oral sex on women.

Again you really need to actually read what I post.

And for the record oral sex is a poor way to transmit HIV. The HIV virus is present in low concentrations in saliva and vagina secretions. It is in much higher concentrations in semen. That is why whoever is on the receiving end of the semen is at a much higher risk of infection. That is why women and homosexual men are far more likely to become infected.

I will try to spell it out for you. Since the HIV virus is present in low concentrations in vaginal secretions it is very had to become infected from performing oral sex on an infected women.

[kymeric]

Triffids!

[Frega]

I really liked this episode. A lot. Sure, both SG1 and SGA have done similar stories, as have most sci-fi shows, but I think this was really well done. I thought that the Changling was okay (the Teal'c/Daniel bits are the only memorable bits. . . . Well, and Jack the hot fireman ) and not even Jack could save the Real World for me (though, admittedly, I'm not a fan of Atlantis), but I loved every minute of this, which I wasn't expecting after Pathogen was such a snoozefest.

I loved the roles that the cast played in Scott's dream and how they reflected their real roles. I especially liked Justice of the Peace!Rush commenting negatively on Young and Scott only half-heartedly defending him. It seems that Scott is starting to doubt Rush. Greer was awesome with the flamethrowers. And he was wearing hot pink? And purple? I liked the Greer/Rush dynamic, as usual. They are definitely my favorite characters and they were both quite good in this ep. I really liked the wedding music playing over the final scenes, it created a really nice contrast, and the shots of them continuously redialing the gate were very cool. Young's "welcome home son" was a nice way to circle things back to the beginning. Also, Chloe (and Rush) coming up with the solution was a nice moment. I'm glad to see her finally have an active role to play. The aliens were cool too.

All in all, I'd say it was a solid episode, an 8/9 out of 10.

Well said! I agree. I enjoyed this episode a lot, even more after I watched it the second time. I gave it a 9. Scott is a main character and this gave us an insight into how he views those he lives with so closely. I was surprised Wray was nowhere to be seen. Evidently Scott doesn't put much relevance in his association with her. I got a good chuckle out of Rush's western outfit. His "sage" wisdom and attitude weren't what I was expecting Scott to be seeing in him. And, having to ring a bell to be buzzed into a justice of the peace's office?, interesting.

[Kaiphantom]

We've all agreed that her blood can transmit whatever it is she's carrying, what we're arguing is that there is no proof that it can be transfered any other way.

There is no argument here. None of us knows what Chloe has exactly. The only argument being made is that, if it is genetic (and there is a very good chance of that), then it's in her genes. If it's in her genes, then it's encoded into every part of her, which means it is transferable via any bodily fluid.

I....don't know how you came to that conclusion at all, considering his response to you pointed out why women/homosexual men are at higher risk of contracting HIV through oral sex than straight men, which means he's aware that men can perform this act.

Yeah, but what we're dealing with here is Chloe infecting Scott. Scott is neither a woman, nor homosexual.

It is possible what conferred immunity were antibody like cells that once present in Scott's blood conferred temporary immunity. Once these cells die Scott would loose his immunity. If the changes to Chloe are on a genetic level and not caused by a still present virus or nanocytes then the causative agent may not be transferable but the protective cells could. . The fact that Chloe and Scott have been exchanging bodily fluids for some time tend to suggest that the causative agent is not communicable by bodily fluids.

You really need to read what I post.

The cause of Chloe's changes is highly likely to be genetic, and she's been giving him her DNA for a fairly long time now.

The only reason Young feels the need to do is because Rush lied when he told him that Chloe was responsible for the command changes to the ship that he has covertly been implementing. Of course Young feels the need to lock them up. I don't think what she has actually done so far necessitates their being locked up. Chloe and Scott need to be watched I don't think they need to be quarantined.

It should be stressed that Chloe IS doing something; we just don't know what. It may be course changes, or it may be just learning. Remember, Rush doesn't completely understand how to control the clock; Chloe could easily be uploading a program that takes effect when Rush drops the ship out of FTL. What Rush sees as "Hmm, that didn't quite go as I expected" could really be something by Chloe interfering.

And for the record oral sex is a poor way to transmit HIV. The HIV virus is present in low concentrations in saliva and vagina secretions. It is in much higher concentrations in semen. That is why whoever is on the receiving end of the semen is at a much higher risk of infection. That is why women and homosexual men are far more likely to become infected.

Yes, but we're discussing Chloe infecting Scott, who is neither a woman nor homosexual. So what you said has no bearing on the discussion.

I will try to spell it out for you. Since the HIV virus is present in low concentrations in vaginal secretions it is very had to become infected from performing oral sex on an infected women.

We're not talking about HIV, though. That's a virus. What's happening to Chloe is genetic. There is a clear difference between the two, so you can't reference things in response to HIV. Vaginal secretions hold Chloe's DNA.

Please try to keep things relevant to what we're discussing, thanks.

[P-90_177]

This was perhaps one of my favorite episodes of SGU so far. I would mainly compare it with the Changling from season 6 of SG1 yet far more interesting. I liked seeing all the nuiances between the characters within Scott's mind. In particular what we saw with Young/his dad. The model father who he realises when it comes down to the crunch can't advise him what to do.
We also got to see some of Scott's own desires like his want of a normal life. A family, a home, a steady girlfriend, a town where everyone knows him and yet you get a glimpse of that side of him rebelling with flirting with James even in the dream.

Additioanally the storyline in the real world I also enjoyed. For once we saw Rush really trying to help and save someone and not just out for his own skin (bit like Time in that regard). Once again we saw Greer being a damn good soldier and best mate and we got to saw What Doctor Park could do in a crisis.

Finally I must say that I loved the music montage at the end as we saw them fighting off the plants with a Kawoosh. Sure parts of it don't make much sense in terms of continuity, (slow damn plants if they have to re-dial each time) but still it was beautiful and very emotional at the same time as seeing the wedding.

As for what comes now? Well clearly Young is not going to trust Scott and Chloe much, and I get the feeling that Scott isn't going to be too happy with her in the end either. I dare say it's about to get a whole lot more interesting.

[kymeric]

Dude, really? I had to hit page down 5 times to scroll through that wall of text. Whatever point you were making was missed, and it prolly wasnt that funny to begin with.

Summary

Scott: Oh yay I am so happy to be back!
Greer: ITS A DREAM!
Scott: Oh goodie I can't wait
(gets off bus)
Scott: Oh theres dad! Hey-
Brody: Dammit If I hit another hooker......

Scott: HOLY CRAP get it off me!!!!
Rush: What happened?
Greer: Some alien root tree thing lured him in here by saying he would tell him "Some Card tricks"
TJ: Works everytime......
Scott: ughhhhh

Young: Why are you lieing down in the middle of the road?
Greer: he got hit
Brody: Ok lets put her in the trunk no on- oh it's just Scott...sorry.
Eli: Oh cool thats so going on Youtube.
Young: Oh well, shame you didn't finish the job brody......he is marrying CHLOE.

Scott: I was expecting a drunk party so I could for one moment forget I was marrying her
Greer: Guess who said it was a bad idea......
Young: Frankly son, you stand up to these things, drinking only gives you beer goggles, that is how you were born.
Chloe: O hello, SCOTT YOU BETTER HAVE A PRESENT FOR ME
Scott: Oh I better faint...........oh i feel dro- (Faints)

Young: What? Why isn't he telling us those card tricks too
Rush: HE GOT BITTEN
Young: Temper temper, what do you need?
Rush: Every drug you have plus a chainsaw so we can take a piece of him back each like souveneirs.

Scott: eh what happened?
Young: You fainted convieniently just as she was about to mention how she stole some money from your offshore acc-
Greer: Let him find out later
Chloe: O hai, here I made you a haggis sandwich.

Scott: Do we seriously have to see an MGM movie? They all suck
Malozzi: SHUT UP dammit go with the script.
Movie Dude: Oh god ITS KILLING ME! MY GUTS JUST GOT SPILLED OUT TO THE LEFT OF ME!!!!!!
Chloe: Oh my gawd this is awesome
Scott: I'm out

Chloe: You are such a wussy
Scott: What I just hate MGM films...
Volker: Sup my home boys Mr V is here, me boy Brody has a spot for a drunk frat party tonight.
Scott: ........
Volker: I was trying to be cool.......

Brody: Sup......
Scott: What?
Brody: A rapist is behind you.....
Everyone: SURPRISE
Scott: DUDE seriously?
Brody: If it were me behind you I would be correct...hehehehehehehe
Young: LETS GET WASTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plant Things: Come to usssssssss.....we want to plaay
Rush: Dammit they are being more tempting guys.... Whats our status?
TJ: Nothing worked.
*Rush gets out a chainsaw and Greers eyes turn to diamonds*
TJ: No no no
Greer: I WANT FIRST GO! Oh they those plant things are right behind us!!!!!

James: Hi i'm your wildest fantasy
Scott: ..and then my mum said to me " I thought you were a gallstone when you were born"
Young: I thought you were a girl *passes out*
Scott: O hay wanna make out
James: go away creep.

Scott: I love you
Greer: .......
Young: He was like this all the time
Telford: Hey guys WHOA!
*Young has gun out*
Young: This is a museum heist now drive!
Greer: Um we aren't at a mus-
Young: What ARE YOU DRUNK!?!
Telford: Ok i'll drive.....Young put down the little water pistol...

Scott: Am I superman
Telford: *Insert depressing speech here*
Young: WOW
Greer: WOW
Telford: I know I amaze myself sometimes

Greer: Ok TJ LET HER RIP!
TJ: Oh dear he has purple blood
Greer: So?
Eli: Yeah lets cut him anyway
Greer: Ok 3 hours till we got to go, ill go get 11ty flame throwers

Scott: Ugh why am I half naked
Chloe: If I told you what I did to you I would have to kill you.

Young: How is Ernie going?
Park: SCOTT is getting infected like mad, he will die
Young: Well lets have a party.

Scott: I want to marry you
Rush: Dammit me man get in here
Scott: Are you Reverend Rush
Rush: Yessir I am now PRAISE THE LAWD 50 TIMES.
Scott: What?
Rush: Sorry I was trying an Al Sharpton like persona, anyway what would you like
Scott: To get married
Rush: *cough* idiot *cough*
Scott: Yeah I know......
Rush: Who to?
Scott: Chloe
Rush: I'll do your damn service as long as you promise never to come back, you are insane for marrying her.

Plant Thing 1: Hey Greer I love you *ACK!*
Greer: You are the third plant to say that!
TJ: Yes Sir?
Young: Send all the useless drones back
TJ: Yes si-
Young: That means you too
TJ:..........
Chloe: DAMMIT SCOTT this is a pathetic excuse to get away from me I AM NOT LEAVING.
TJ: Eww you got planty mucus on you GREER!
Greer: Which mucus you want me to burn? Chloe or the plant?

Eli: Now can we go over the rules about my sister
Scott: You can cork it
Eli: But-
Scott: I know, dont have dirty sex, no un-religious stuff or you will get Rush to driveby my house and do his work.
Eli: *smugface*

Chloe: HA now I infected myself YOU ARENT GETTING AWAY FROM ME SCOTT!!!!! HAHAHAHA
Eli: Wacko........

TJ: Hi
Scott: Oh can I marry you instead
TJ: Sorry i'm already your fathers mistress
Young: *Sexy Smirk*

Greer: BURN YOU ALL HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Dude no1: I'm out
Dude no2: Bye scott we will miss you, Chloe please don't come back.

Scott: I don't want to die......
Young: IF you mean get married, word....
Scott: I hate her....she sucks....
Young: Does she happen to blo-
Scott: You already have one mistress.......

TJ: Oh dear her blood is ok, oh well good luck with dieing
Chloe: But Matt was in agony
Rush: Hahaha oh god I will be- yes I must, ok do a blood transfusion it will save scott *snicker*

Rush: Now I'm a man of few words, but PRAISE THE LAWD and everyone SIT THE HELL DOWN.

Greer: OK TJ and Rush run away, I will deal with these things myself
Rush: Oh wow a 3 in one deal, how could I get so lucky, GOODBYE!

Organism: NOOOOOOO im melting
Scott: Oh thank god and I was just about to get married.

Young: Sup guys, firstly, Greer get yourself cleaned, secondly I have bad news
Scott: ??
Young: Turns out chloe still had herpes, you are now infected too, congratulations!

CLIFFHANGER

[Shai Hulud]

Dude, really? I had to hit page down 5 times to scroll through that wall of text. Whatever point you were making was missed, and it prolly wasnt that funny to begin with.

Made me giggle and give a green, go figure.

[PG15]

NEWSFLASH:
From now on, every time a poster manages to make a comparison of an SGU episode to something OTHER THAN SG1 or SGA, I will green you, whether I like the comparison or not, agree or not. Green I say!

Cloverdale is just like an avocado! It's soft and green with a hard core that's hardcore.

Let me turn that around: Why must we come up with convoluted conspiracy theories in order to make Rush seem less-than-savory?

We mustn't. We, instead, should refer to the episode itself and see what happened and try to assume as little as possible.

At the end of Pathogen, Chloe and Rush's conversation was short with no obvious hints of hidden intentions. Similarily, no hints of any agreements was there in Rush's conversation with Gloria; rather it was just Rush saying that, in exchange for her freedom, she must play along.

Then, no mention was made of this until Chloe revealed her condition because she wanted to test her theory and stay with Scott; again, no hints of any agreements; Rush saw that the secret has been revealed, and made up an excuse, and that was that. Pathogen and Cloverdale showed no real evidence of any agreements between the two besides the blackmailing agreement.

That said, I don't completely dismiss your theory either; in fact, it'd be cool if they did turn around say that there was more to it; I just don't like how you completely dismissed my side of the discussion (calling it BS didn't help), as IMHO it's just what the episodes laid out and thus fairly plausible.

And yes, let's use Occam's Razor, which states that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. There was obviously no way that they could hide Chloe's condition from the rest of the crew. If this didn't happen, she would have blacked out again and gone missing, or they should have had her under observation. In short, blackmail only works if you can keep the information hidden, and there was no way to do so for very long. Rush would have known this.

So, the simpler answer is that they have some other kind of agreement.

I don't believe that Rush is that good of a planner. He is very good, but not that good. He didn't have a plan for when Young stranded him on that planet, and his cover up of the bridge is wearing thinner and thinner by the day. IMHO Rush is flying by the seat of his pants making things up as he goes along. He recruited Chloe in the hopes that she'll help her solve problems, and if she does reveal the secret, then he has an excuse all prepared.

Let me ask you something. Your assertion is very open; "they must have an agreement" - how would that be proven? If there was no revelation of an agreement in the next episode, would you rethink your position, or will you think that it'll be revealed later? What if nothing happens in the episode after that? And after that? And so on?

What then? Will you stick to this even though there is no direct evidence?