Puddle Jumpers?

[IcarusAbides]

I wish they had a jumper in Icarus Base which was borrowed from Atlantis.

Maybe they did, perhaps they were going to take one through with some proper supplies and team members but the whole planned expedition kind of went out the window when they were attacked.

[garhkal]

We know for a fact the ATA gene was in place prior to Atlantis leaving earth, because the Earth control chair required the gene to operate.

BUT did they upgrade that after getting back from the Pegasus galaxy or was it done before.. we don't know.

[BrianD]

Some say the Puddle Jumper predates Destiny some say it's the other way around. I don't think we know enough about the history of the Puddle Jumper to say it is or isn't older then Destiny. What we do know is Atlantis predated Destiny along with a few other ships. The Puddle Jumper to me seems like it has newer technology but then again so does Atlantis perhaps that technology however may simply be an upgrade that Destiny wasn't around for. I don't think we know enough.

[Cecil Brax]

BUT did they upgrade that after getting back from the Pegasus galaxy or was it done before.. we don't know.

Actually we do:

While they never specifically said "The ATA gene was used prior to Atlantis leaving earth" we do know that the gate was separated from the Outpost a long time before the ancients went back to earth. We also know that the Ancient Woman (I can't remember how to spell her name) was separated as well and in the same area as the gate but not near the outpost. The reason we know this is cause if the gate was still at the outpost 10,000 years ago, and the ancient woman was there ... they would have revived her. hehe.

Now this part is just a theory, but she probably froze herself in stasis, then the whole area froze over and when the power ran out of the earth ZPM, the stasis chamber unfroze her but the ice kept her cold andd took her away with the gate.

The Stargate was the furthest towards the surface, the Ancient Woman was further down, and the Outpost was somewhere else completely as evidence in Lost City Part 2 when they were hovering over the ice and there was no research outpost anywhere in sight which we know they established in the location they found the gate.

Thus, the ATA Gene had to be prior to Atlantis leaving.

Its not the same as someone directly saying "The ATA gene was at the Outpost several million years ago" but through deductive reasoning you come to the same conclusion.

I guess you could dispute it if you really want to ignore facts for the sake of continuing the idea that Destiny isn't millions of years old, but that would be quite a stretch. While there may not be direct evidence pointing at this, there is quite a bit of fact involved. Where as the whole "They may have upgraded the outpost when they got back" has zero fact involved.

- CB

[Cecil Brax]

Some say the Puddle Jumper predates Destiny some say it's the other way around. I don't think we know enough about the history of the Puddle Jumper to say it is or isn't older then Destiny. What we do know is Atlantis predated Destiny along with a few other ships. The Puddle Jumper to me seems like it has newer technology but then again so does Atlantis perhaps that technology however may simply be an upgrade that Destiny wasn't around for. I don't think we know enough.

Where is the facts pointing that Atlantis predates Destiny? Infact I think the evidence points the other way around.

More likely, they were created around the same time though. But there is no evidence that Atlantis predates Destiny.

- CB

[Captain Obvious]

There won't be any puddle jumpers. They were a very overused plot device in Atlantis, and they had a nearly infinite supply.

Also, the gate room on the destiny could never fit a puddle jumper. Also, this gate seems smaller than the Pegasus gates, and we have yet to see a single space gate that would make us need them.

Any transport off the destiny will be through the gate or the 2 shuttles.

[MattSilver 3k]

There won't be any puddle jumpers. They were a very overused plot device in Atlantis, and they had a nearly infinite supply.

Also, the gate room on the destiny could never fit a puddle jumper. Also, this gate seems smaller than the Pegasus gates, and we have yet to see a single space gate that would make us need them.

Any transport off the destiny will be through the gate or the 2 shuttles.

Or out the airloc-

Once they find it.

[Avenger]

Actually we do:

While they never specifically said "The ATA gene was used prior to Atlantis leaving earth" we do know that the gate was separated from the Outpost a long time before the ancients went back to earth. We also know that the Ancient Woman (I can't remember how to spell her name) was separated as well and in the same area as the gate but not near the outpost. The reason we know this is cause if the gate was still at the outpost 10,000 years ago, and the ancient woman was there ... they would have revived her. hehe.

Now this part is just a theory, but she probably froze herself in stasis, then the whole area froze over and when the power ran out of the earth ZPM, the stasis chamber unfroze her but the ice kept her cold andd took her away with the gate.

The Stargate was the furthest towards the surface, the Ancient Woman was further down, and the Outpost was somewhere else completely as evidence in Lost City Part 2 when they were hovering over the ice and there was no research outpost anywhere in sight which we know they established in the location they found the gate.

Thus, the ATA Gene had to be prior to Atlantis leaving.

Its not the same as someone directly saying "The ATA gene was at the Outpost several million years ago" but through deductive reasoning you come to the same conclusion.

I guess you could dispute it if you really want to ignore facts for the sake of continuing the idea that Destiny isn't millions of years old, but that would be quite a stretch. While there may not be direct evidence pointing at this, there is quite a bit of fact involved. Where as the whole "They may have upgraded the outpost when they got back" has zero fact involved.

- CB

She was in stasis because she had some sort of disease (that eventually killed her) so your theory doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Atlantis left for Pegasus 5-10 million years ago and they, presumably, had the means to dial Earth as they saw fit, so it's certainly plausible that the gene technology was developed in Pegasus and brought to Earth sometime between 5-10 million years and when ever the Antarctic outpost was abandoned and frozen over.

[Cecil Brax]

She was in stasis because she had some sort of disease (that eventually killed her) so your theory doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Yes, I believe that first part was exactly the point I was making. You just added the "because of a disease" part I didn't put in my post. I figured that was implied.

For whatever reason she froze herself, I believe once the chamber ran out of power the ice kept her frozen as well and she was carried off in the ice flow along with the gate.

Otherwise, how would she have gotten in the ice at all? She was dieing and decided the only way to go was to throw herself in the freezing cold water? hehe

If you think the theory doesn't make alot of sense, please explain how and I'll detail it further.

Atlantis left for Pegasus 5-10 million years ago and they, presumably, had the means to dial Earth as they saw fit, so it's certainly plausible that the gene technology was developed in Pegasus and brought to Earth sometime between 5-10 million years and when ever the Antarctic outpost was abandoned and frozen over.

Again, I don't see how this would be possible. If we know for a fact that the ancient woman was at the outpost with the earth gate, if the Ancients came back at some point when the gate was at the outpost, why didn't they wake her up?

Likewise, we know the Stasis Chamber only can sustain you for X-Amount of years before your body gets too old. 10,000 being pushing the limit. So sometime from the time Atlantis left earth 5-10 million years ago, and the next 10,000 years later the power around the outpost had to have faded, the ancient woman and the gate were swept away from the outpost with the ice flow, and the gate and outpost were seperated.

Now even if my theory about her freezing herself is wrong, she wasn't aged that much if at all from the time the ancients left Earth to the time SG1 found her. We're also pretty confident that Ancients and Humans age at a similar rate, as seen in Stargate Atlantis by the fact that after 10,000 years Dr. Weir was too old to survive, as well as on the Aurora in Season 2 the ancient crew was likewise too old to survive after 10,000 years.

So whatever happened at the outpost had to have happened within 10,000 (give or take) years of the ancients leaving earth or the Ancient Woman left behind would not have been able to survive. There is no reason to think (Well she might have aged slower) because there is zero evidence of ancients living longer then humans and actually evidence proving they only live a lifespan somewhere around ours. (Meaning 100-200 years)

I don't see any evidence the ancients could have accessed that outpost anymore without finding the Ancient Woman they left behind. So either A. The Ancients just left her to die, upgraded the outpost, then left again and later she gets carried off by the ice flow or B. They never made it back.

Finally, and again I restate this, if we know she was carried off along with the gate (Which we do know because she was found in the exact same area with the gate and infact further down in the ice) she had to have been frozen within her life time (100-200 years) or within the lifetime a stasis chamber can sustain you (10,000 years). Either way, that only gives them a 10,000 year window to return to the outpost and install the upgrade.

Which still puts the Destiny as being launched either around the same time Atlantis left earth, or prior to Atlantis leaving earth because of the 10,000 year max window around their time of departure.

People are free to believe whatever they want. I am willing to discuss the points I've made in this thread with anyone who is willing to provide evidence to counter them.

- CB

[Cecil Brax]

I'll sum up my last post with this one real quick to lay out all the points in order. I could try and edit the original post, but someone might reply before I am done so I'll do a quick summary in order.

2-10 million years ago ancients leave earth. Ancient Woman is left behind.

200(Normal human lifespan as proven that ancients live a similar lifespan to us give or take a hundred years) to 10,000 years after the ancients leave, the Ancient Woman and the gate are swept away. This HAS to have happened within this time because either she was at the outpost awake when the ice flow got her, or she was in a stasis chamber when the ice flow got her. She could not have survived more then 10,000 years (max time a Stasis chamber can keep you alive) without being frozen in the ice flow.

In closing that means if the Earth Outpost didn't already have the ancient gene technology, it had to have happened within that time (200-10,000 years max) because the Gate was removed with the Ancient Woman and her age proves it happened with either her normal lifespan or her "Stasis Chamber" lifespan.

- CB

[creed462]

While not puddle jumpers they may find some all purpose vehicles

[GateMaster C]

My theory as to how the chronology can go Atlantis - Destiny - ATA Gene...

Atlantis leaves Earth for Pegasus, 'several million years ago'. It does NOT at this time have the ATA technology, and neither does the outpost chair that is left behind.

Destiny is launched a million or so years ago. (Though this I'm less happy with, considering it's supposed to have been built on and launched from Earth, which the Ancients had, presumably, abandoned when they'd left for Pegasus)

The ATA technology is developed in response to the war with the Wraith, about (I can't recall if this was ever dealt with in SGA, so I'm just guessing) 20 to 15 thousand years ago.

The Ancients lose the war with the Wraith, abandon Pegasus and return to Earth. THEN they upgrade the Earth outpost with the ATA requirement.

So, there we go. My effort to reconcile 15 years of SG lore spread over 3 series. I get the feeling there's plenty of holes that can still be poked in it, so, have at it...

[ciannwn]

The ATA technology is developed in response to the war with the Wraith, about (I can't recall if this was ever dealt with in SGA, so I'm just guessing) 20 to 15 thousand years ago.

From what I remember, the war with the Wraith was supposed to have lasted for around 100 years. The Ancients finally abandoned Atlantis and went to Earth around 10,000 years ago.

[Mongoletsi]

1. There could still be jumpers, or jumper like ships on board Destiny. Still too early to tell.

How do they get to the gate then?

2. The Ancients could have chosen NOT to equip Destiny with ATA control technology. Why? "Minimization of loss." IF the Destiny were to fall into the hands of some "bad guy" they wouldn't want them to have as little knowledge as possible. Less to come back and be used against you.

So you're saying... in order to give up less info, make things less secure?

[Cecil Brax]

My theory as to how the chronology can go Atlantis - Destiny - ATA Gene...

Atlantis leaves Earth for Pegasus, 'several million years ago'. It does NOT at this time have the ATA technology, and neither does the outpost chair that is left behind.

Destiny is launched a million or so years ago. (Though this I'm less happy with, considering it's supposed to have been built on and launched from Earth, which the Ancients had, presumably, abandoned when they'd left for Pegasus)

The ATA technology is developed in response to the war with the Wraith, about (I can't recall if this was ever dealt with in SGA, so I'm just guessing) 20 to 15 thousand years ago.

The Ancients lose the war with the Wraith, abandon Pegasus and return to Earth. THEN they upgrade the Earth outpost with the ATA requirement.

So, there we go. My effort to reconcile 15 years of SG lore spread over 3 series. I get the feeling there's plenty of holes that can still be poked in it, so, have at it...

Its not a bad theory, but my posts above that I made in conversations to other users point out some of the potential problems with your theory.

Honestly, its my belief that all of these theories about the Ancients putting in the ATA Tech into their thechnology are coming up cause Rush said "Hundreds of thousands of years" in regards to Destiny's age and everyone is just taking that so literally. What's even funnier is alot of the people who take it literally are also ones who have posted "I don't trust Rush" posts, but they are willing to take what he said to the letter. hehe

- CB