Is Telford right about his statement on Earth's actions

[geewillie86]

Sure, the Replicators may have knocked the final domino down for the System Lords, but Earth knocked the first one over a long time ago. Hell, even without the Replicators coming to the Milky Way, the same fate awaited the Goa'uld. It may have taken longer, and the power vacuum wouldn't have been so sudden, but get real.

Actually, this is an excellent point to focus on. The replicators did in an instant what should have taken years to accomplish. The SGC would have needed to build major inroads into the human populations of the MWG if they were to have any hope of toppling the entire Goa'uld hierarchy. We would have had the time to strategize. Furthermore, we wouldn't have to help support the entire galaxy at once because populations would be freed piecemeal. Its a lot easier to get those populations back on their feet a few at a time. It makes sense that the SGC never said "Now what". They never imagined that all of the Goa'uld would fall nearly simultaneously. Also, its not like they never offered humanitarian aid. The SGC made it its business to help out whenever it could over the 10 years of the show.

I don't think that the same fate would have awaited all of them had the replicators not arrived. The SGC and its allies probably would have won enough victories to convince the remaining Goa'uld to surrender, and that surrender would have been more orderly then the entire system lord hierarchy dying within weeks. Yes, we were fighting the Goa'uld long before the replicators became an issue. That really doesn't matter. Even if we had never discovered the stargate, a replicator infestation would have been more than enough to topple the system lords. In fact, one could argue that Ba'al was better prepared to fight the replicators because he had gained access to the knowledge that the Tau'ri had unlocked over the years.

[s09119]

Actually, this is an excellent point to focus on. The replicators did in an instant what should have taken years to accomplish. The SGC would have needed to build major inroads into the human populations of the MWG if they were to have any hope of toppling the entire Goa'uld hierarchy. We would have had the time to strategize. Furthermore, we wouldn't have to help support the entire galaxy at once because populations would be freed piecemeal. Its a lot easier to get those populations back on their feet a few at a time. It makes sense that the SGC never said "Now what". They never imagined that all of the Goa'uld would fall nearly simultaneously. Also, its not like they never offered humanitarian aid. The SGC made it its business to help out whenever it could over the 10 years of the show.

I don't think that the same fate would have awaited all of them had the replicators not arrived. The SGC and its allies probably would have won enough victories to convince the remaining Goa'uld to surrender, and that surrender would have been more orderly then the entire system lord hierarchy dying within weeks. Yes, we were fighting the Goa'uld long before the replicators became an issue. That really doesn't matter. Even if we had never discovered the stargate, a replicator infestation would have been more than enough to topple the system lords. In fact, one could argue that Ba'al was better prepared to fight the replicators because he had gained access to the knowledge that the Tau'ri had unlocked over the years.

How do you figure? We led the Replicators into the galaxy anyway, and besides, Anubis was coming back one way or another. And he knew exactly how to get rid of them for good. Had we never showed up on the scene, he would have just used the Dakara device exactly the same way we had.

[geewillie86]

We led the Replicators into the galaxy

That doesn't make us responsible for their actions, especially considering that they were being lead by a conscious being (RepliCarter) who was given every opportunity to end hostilities peacefully in the episode Gemini.

Anubis was coming back one way or another. And he knew exactly how to get rid of them for good. Had we never showed up on the scene, he would have just used the Dakara device exactly the same way we had.

Actually, Anubis wasn't planning on using the Dakara device in the way that we did. He planned on wiping out all MW life (system lords included) in favor of his own "grand design". Killing off the replicators is just an added bonus. All of the backwater human populations would be space dust if we hadn't intervened.

[s09119]

That doesn't make us responsible for their actions, especially considering that they were being lead by a conscious being (RepliCarter) who was given every opportunity to end hostilities peacefully in the episode Gemini.

Who came about because of who, again?

Actually, Anubis wasn't planning on using the Dakara device in the way that we did. He planned on wiping out all MW life (system lords included) in favor of his own "grand design". Killing off the replicators is just an added bonus. All of the backwater human populations would be space dust if we hadn't intervened.

He still would have defeated the Replicators, that was my point.

[TheHomegaMan]

That doesn't make us responsible for their actions, especially considering that they were being lead by a conscious being (RepliCarter) who was given every opportunity to end hostilities peacefully in the episode Gemini.

I don't buy this for a second. If I bring a hostile Rottweiler into your home, or it follows me, I am responsible for what it does while it is there. As for Replicarter, she was still the product of Fifth's programming and his torment. Because Earth once again took it upon itself to play the cowboy in the white hat, the human form Replicators learned where Earth was, Fifth learned betrayal and rage, and Replicarter was created and tortured into a shell of who she was to be. All of that came down to us. If Earth had declined involvement, the System Lords would still be a major power instead of a memory.

I'm sorry, but I just can't look at an argument like "We may have brought them here, but we're not responsible" and keep a straight face.

Actually, Anubis wasn't planning on using the Dakara device in the way that we did. He planned on wiping out all MW life (system lords included) in favor of his own "grand design". Killing off the replicators is just an added bonus. All of the backwater human populations would be space dust if we hadn't intervened.

Yes, they'd all cease to exist if we hadn't intervened. Case closed. Period. The end. You can't say "We saved you, now go enjoy and be well adjusted members of a larger interstellar community" and walk off. You can't approach toppling an existing government and integrating large populations into greater societies with a hands off approach. In other words, it's not a book with a beginning, middle and end, but rather a story that continues to be written.

[J_schinderlin56]

"They will eventually be drawn to the reasources of your civilization"- Thor, unnatural selection.

The replicators would have eaten our galaxy for breakfast one way or another. They had to be delt with.

[J_schinderlin56]

We should do what we can to help the rest of the galaxy. But if we want to find somone to blame I say blame the Ancients! They:

1. Created the Stargates and left them there for anyone (Goa'uld) to find and use to take over the galaxy.
2. Created the Wraith (Granted on accident), and the human populations terrorized by the Wraith and Goa'uld.
3. Created the Replicators (I suspect Reese as well) boy, that worked out swell.
4. Helped Anubus ascend.
5. Now that they are ascended they won't take the responsibility for anything they did since it is "Benieth them" They just sit around at Denny's eating breakfast all the time.

It's ALL their fault and I think we've cleaned up a heck of a lot of their mess thus far, the job's not done. But we've defanately pulled our weight, maybe the Jaffa and others should help and pick up some of the slack instead of going around threatening us all the time when we saved their butts. I bet they could take down the L.A. pretty quick if they tried.

[s09119]

We should do what we can to help the rest of the galaxy. But if we want to find somone to blame I say blame the Ancients! They:

1. Created the Stargates and left them there for anyone (Goa'uld) to find and use to take over the galaxy.
2. Created the Wraith (Granted on accident), and the human populations terrorized by the Wraith and Goa'uld.
3. Created the Replicators (I suspect Reese as well) boy, that worked out swell.
4. Helped Anubus ascend.
5. Now that they are ascended they won't take the responsibility for anything they did since it is "Benieth them" They just sit around at Denny's eating breakfast all the time.

It's ALL their fault and I think we've cleaned up a heck of a lot of their mess thus far, the job's not done. But we've defanately pulled our weight, maybe the Jaffa and others should help and pick up some of the slack instead of going around threatening us all the time when we saved their butts. I bet they could take down the L.A. pretty quick if they tried.

But they were trying to help the galaxy and lift these people up to civilization! So they get a free pass for anything that came about as a result of their actions!

Sound familiar?

[Shai Hulud]

But they were trying to help the galaxy and lift these people up to civilization! So they get a free pass for anything that came about as a result of their actions!

Sound familiar?

Yank foreign policy?

[s09119]

Yank foreign policy?

Actually I meant the often-repeated argument for why the consequences of Earth's actions aren't Earth's fault since they were trying to do the "right thing."

[wargrafix]

Earth is motivated by greed and how they can advance themselves. More specifically the military and the IOA.

[AVFan]

I think Telford was actually absolutely right. Sure, we didn't go around caring for the people of the MW after the Goa'uld fell, but why is that our duty?

We've done a crap load for the galaxy already by ridding it of multiple evil villains/dictators, machine bugs, and evil ascended beings posing as gods. For crying out loud, if we can do that much, I'd think that we can count on the people of the MW to rebuild for themselves. You can't put a price tag on freedom.

This isn't even counting the humanitarian aid that we HAVE given to various displaced/needy people groups throughout the MW. If someone would like me to go through specific episodes, I will, but there's a lot of them so I'll wait for a request to do it.

It's not our duty to help every civilization that needs it, especially with the limited amount of resources we have. Now, if we had a load of planets to produce resources on, we could do more towards helping out. But even then, it wouldn't be a requirement of us to do so.

[s09119]

I think Telford was actually absolutely right. Sure, we didn't go around caring for the people of the MW after the Goa'uld fell, but why is that our duty?

We've done a crap load for the galaxy already by ridding it of multiple evil villains/dictators, machine bugs, and evil ascended beings posing as gods. For crying out loud, if we can do that much, I'd think that we can count on the people of the MW to rebuild for themselves. You can't put a price tag on freedom.

This isn't even counting the humanitarian aid that we HAVE given to various displaced/needy people groups throughout the MW. If someone would like me to go through specific episodes, I will, but there's a lot of them so I'll wait for a request to do it.

It's not our duty to help every civilization that needs it, especially with the limited amount of resources we have. Now, if we had a load of planets to produce resources on, we could do more towards helping out. But even then, it wouldn't be a requirement of us to do so.

Actually, I think you can put a pricetag on freedom. It's called the United States fiscal deficit.

[Flyboy]

I think Telford was actually absolutely right. Sure, we didn't go around caring for the people of the MW after the Goa'uld fell, but why is that our duty?

We've done a crap load for the galaxy already by ridding it of multiple evil villains/dictators, machine bugs, and evil ascended beings posing as gods. For crying out loud, if we can do that much, I'd think that we can count on the people of the MW to rebuild for themselves. You can't put a price tag on freedom.

This isn't even counting the humanitarian aid that we HAVE given to various displaced/needy people groups throughout the MW. If someone would like me to go through specific episodes, I will, but there's a lot of them so I'll wait for a request to do it.

It's not our duty to help every civilization that needs it, especially with the limited amount of resources we have. Now, if we had a load of planets to produce resources on, we could do more towards helping out. But even then, it wouldn't be a requirement of us to do so.

That line of thinking is EXACTLY why despite fantastic victories in the war phase of both Afghanistan and Iraq, the COIN operations will continue for God knows how long.

[Nikec3]

Uhh, political debate against USA. That's even better than SGU