next time will be different!

[Commander Zelix]

The "problem" with Young's leadership as far as the civilians is concerned (as far as I can see) is his gung-ho military attitude - for example, making the civilian scientists do calisthenics. What the...? That's overstepping a boundary, IMO. And he doesn't seem to understand the way scientific research works, he just wants things done/fixed/unlocked etc "Now!" but the real world doesn't work like that. He engenders a lot of resentment from the civilians and whether that's warranted or not is another matter - it's existence is enough to make it a problem.

Of course Rush and Wray have their own reasons for wanting control, but there are clearly people on that ship who think they would be better off under non-military leadership.

I don't deny that Young has a place in the command structure, he is certainly the most seasoned military person on board and as such should control the military side of things, but Rush and Wray should be given responsibility for those aspects which are well outside Young's sphere of experience.

Thats just little stupid bickering certainly not cause for a mutiny.

It would have been better if their was really a strong moral dilemma to sustain it. Even on Voyager they had better reasons to want Janeway removed from command.

[GateroomGuard]

What baffles me is how do the Civillians think they can run the ship without the military? Wray and Rush get a mutiny going. Okay. They overthrow Young. Okay. Ship runs better now because Civillians are in charge. yay! And the military just goes along with it? If Wray and Rush overthrow Young there is no way the military on board the Destiny will stand for it. So Wray and rush have a few options
1. Kill all the military personel.
2. Imprison all the military personel.
3. Reason with the militray personel.
4. Ignore the military personel.

Each of those outcomes doesn't work though.
1. It's doubtful most of the civillians would be party to murder, and even if Wray and Rush were insane enough to kill the only people capable of defending them the other civillians probably wouldn't be as crazy.
2. If they can trap or capture the military personel then the question is what to do with them. Because their going to escape, their General is MacGyver for crying out loud. They can tell them they'll be free if they cooperate but why would the civillians have any reason to believe them.
3. Reasoning would be useless as a violent overthrow of their command structure followed by removing them from any command position wouldn't go over well.
4. Well that'd just be be stupid.

More than likely they'll attempt to simply imprison everyone and hold them ransom until Young agrees to step down. But even then there is no gurantee once Young steps down and the military is released that they won't just go and shoot all the mutineers out an airlock, now that those aliens gave them some. Greer, James, and other soliders were ready to put a stop to a hearing, imagine what they'll do to a mutiny.

I'm just failing to see how Wray and Rush hope to win. Sure overthrow Young... then what?

[Commander Zelix]

What baffles me is how do the Civillians think they can run the ship without the military?

Especially a few days after an alien attack making this a military expedition more than ever.

[GateroomGuard]

Especially a few days after an alien attack making this a military expedition more than ever.

Are they just expecting to let them out to fight some enemy then hope they go back to their cells?

Wray: Uh... sorry about the mutiny thing but could you guys go to the gateroom and kill those aliens before they eat us. Oh and you'll have to come back to your cells once it's over.
Military:..............
Wray: Rush you can use a gun right? Rush?
Brody: He left in the alien ship.
Wray: ....Can you use a gun Brody?
Brody: Nope. ...I could try and send the aliens a virus.
Eli: HaHa! This is just like Independance...agaahahaha
Aliens devour everyone.

[CCA]

I got it...It's like Pirates of the Universe...so much mutiny aboard, argh!!!! Actually started thinking it out, Young can be Jack, Matt can be Will, Elizabeth...I'll just say TJ cause I like her better lol...Eli can so be Mr. Gibbs...good God, I had such a boring day at work if this is where my mind went. (slams head down)

[The Shrike]

How about this for a possible scenario: The military gets wind of the attempted coup d'état, nips it in the bud, but Young, realizing the split will only continue to fester and get worse, does the unexpected and steps down from command.

[Lahela]

What you're suggesting is my ideal scenario, too, but, as well as that worked with SGA's Weir/John/Rodney triumvirate, it's definitely not going to work here. All three have their own reasons for wanting control of the ship and, if only for spite, won't let the others have a say.

I agree 100%.

Thats just little stupid bickering certainly not cause for a mutiny.

It would have been better if their was really a strong moral dilemma to sustain it. Even on Voyager they had better reasons to want Janeway removed from command.

There have been big enough things happen, IMO, but they weren't public. Only a few people know about what happened between Young and Rush, for example, whereas the whole crew knowing would have had a huge impact.

[nx01a]

I think, from seeing the random cannon fodder talking in the mess, that the whole ship knows about the Young/Rush issue. It's only 80 people. Eli's openly talking about it [like during the battle] and Wray's probably out recruiting members to her side daily with talk of Young stranding Rush on the planet. Now that Rush has returned as the hero and poor guy who's incurred the wrath of an 'unstable leader', it'll only get worse.
You think the space fireworks in Space were big. Wait for human fireworks in Divided.

[Commander Zelix]

There have been big enough things happen, IMO, but they weren't public. Only a few people know about what happened between Young and Rush, for example, whereas the whole crew knowing would have had a huge impact.

Even the Young and Rush there's no strong dilemma to sustain it. Rush tried to frame for Young for murder because of the chair? Then Young tried to kill him for it. It does account for little bickering for me. There's no strong moral/philosophical dilemma to sustain it. Its not a battle of ideas or visions. I don't say the conflict between the 2 doesn't work at all but the reasoning behind it is a bit flimsy, less interesting for us viewers.

[Lahela]

Even the Young and Rush there's no strong dilemma to sustain it. Rush tried to frame for Young for murder because of the chair? Then Young tried to kill him for it. It does account for little bickering for me. There's no strong moral/philosophical dilemma to sustain it. Its not a battle of ideas or visions. I don't say the conflict between the 2 doesn't work at all but the reasoning behind it is a bit flimsy, less interesting for us viewers.

I do see where you're coming from. Perhaps it will develop as the season goes - I'm pretty much spoiler-free so I don't know, but hopefully it will.

[nx01a]

I'm so spoiler free, I don't even know the names of the coming episodes apart from the next one.
Their 'struggle' seems petty to me, but it's deadly serious to them... which makes it hilariously sad.

[blackluster]

Even the Young and Rush there's no strong dilemma to sustain it. Rush tried to frame for Young for murder because of the chair? Then Young tried to kill him for it. It does account for little bickering for me. There's no strong moral/philosophical dilemma to sustain it. Its not a battle of ideas or visions. I don't say the conflict between the 2 doesn't work at all but the reasoning behind it is a bit flimsy, less interesting for us viewers.

I'm not sure about Wray, but I think Rush's issues with Young's leadership have compounded over some time.

It probably starts with their power problems, where instead of taking on advice regarding the situation, Young attempts a gate dial and activating various systems, resulting in a major crisis on board. From there, in the midst of a dangerous situation with Telford's entire plan with the weapons system and sun dipping which threatened to end in complete disaster, Young was more concerned with his wife. Rush would most certainly have noted his absence. Later, we see the incident in water where Young is willing to risk everyone's life for Scott's sake in what amounts to rather terrible judgment. If it hadn't been for a stroke of luck in that tremor occurring, the crew may well have been consigned to death by dehydration. The straw that breaks the camel's back for Rush is probably the chair, since Young expects them to get everyone home quickly, but he forbids study on the chair. Then when Franklin disobeys orders and sits in the chair by his own will, Young promptly blames Rush for it.

Add to this the constant accusations and suspicion directed at Rush and Young's campaign of overt surveillance against all the civilians, then I think one can see the issues with his leadership extend well beyond petty bickering or petulance on the part of the civilians. Most of these people are scientists and Young persists in treating them like idiots.

[StarShadow]

Similar to how in the new Star Trek movie, Spock left Kirk on an ice planet, huh?

[Tuvok]

I'm not sure about Wray, but I think Rush's issues with Young's leadership have compounded over some time.

It probably starts with their power problems, where instead of taking on advice regarding the situation, Young attempts a gate dial and activating various systems, resulting in a major crisis on board. From there, in the midst of a dangerous situation with Telford's entire plan with the weapons system and sun dipping which threatened to end in complete disaster, Young was more concerned with his wife. Rush would most certainly have noted his absence. Later, we see the incident in water where Young is willing to risk everyone's life for Scott's sake in what amounts to rather terrible judgment. If it hadn't been for a stroke of luck in that tremor occurring, the crew may well have been consigned to death by dehydration. The straw that breaks the camel's back for Rush is probably the chair, since Young expects them to get everyone home quickly, but he forbids study on the chair. Then when Franklin disobeys orders and sits in the chair by his own will, Young promptly blames Rush for it.

Add to this the constant accusations and suspicion directed at Rush and Young's campaign of overt surveillance against all the civilians, then I think one can see the issues with his leadership extend well beyond petty bickering or petulance on the part of the civilians. Most of these people are scientists and Young persists in treating them like idiots.

Actually I view it as a double edged blade.

Young is running the ship as a military operation as in the dire situation that gives the best chance of survival.

The Civies and Scientist won't view it that way. As a third party we get to observe both sides but they do not. Frankly Young does not have time for hand holding. Nor does he have time to debate every single action to make the non-military personal happy. That is a mistake , while understandable it leaves the Non-military personal to feel not only lost but powerless. That leads to frustration. They need the military to survive on some level they are aware of that. But they are on the arse end of the Verse, no ZPM to get them home lickity split. No resources flowing in constantly. With little to no say about whats going on.

Of course there going to want to be more involved their stuck out there too.

But the Scientist are not above reproach as well. They see the military handling the situation poorly because in their view they are smarter then the apes with Guns. Wrays dismissive attitude towards Greer and Young abilities to me shows that she and others like her think that they are more intellectually adapt for the situation. Blasted military grunts just going around smashing around and not being smart enough to grasp how things should be done.

The Scientist believe that the Military don't have the noggins to lead. That those with triple IQs should get things done. Why should they trust their existance to basic guns on legs.

The Military think the reverse. A solid command structure is needed, let the eggheads keep everything working we'll keep em alive. Basically both sides thinks of the other as tools that somehow end up in charge.

So yeah, none are truly innocent. Still would go with the Military in charge, cause sometimes you need to act with one motion and objective then take a ten minute debate about it. Plus , with being in very unfriendly territory. Gotta throw in with the ones trained to survive and fight.

[blackluster]

The Civies and Scientist won't view it that way. As a third party we get to observe both sides but they do not. Frankly Young does not have time for hand holding. Nor does he have time to debate every single action to make the non-military personal happy.

I think the the assumption that there is no time for debate in their situation is erroneous in the first place and the direct cause of much of the problems Young's poor decision making has caused. In virtually every case I highlighted, if he had taken a moment to actually see what Rush or the other qualified personal thought about something, especially in relation to the ship which he knows nothing about, many of their problems could have been avoided. Young's defense mechanism up till now when things blow up in his face is simply to blame it on Rush.

But the Scientist are not above reproach as well. They see the military handling the situation poorly because in their view they are smarter then the apes with Guns. Wrays dismissive attitude towards Greer and Young abilities to me shows that she and others like her think that they are more intellectually adapt for the situation. Blasted military grunts just going around smashing around and not being smart enough to grasp how things should be done.

While the civilian perspective may certainly be assumption, the military personnel have unfortunately proven them right more than they haven't. Also, Wray has no problem with all the soldiers, only the ones who clearly exhibit questionable behaviour. That's not under handed, that's common sense. Greer punched a senior officer and Young is racking up a poor track record of decisions. Anyone in their right mind would ask questions.