'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[EllieVee]

Maybe. If TJ keeps stuff like that up and keeps gaining Wray, Rush, and the other civilians respect I could see her as a leader. But right now I think they would turn on her the moment things got tough.

Right now, me, too.

[Deevil]

Maybe. If TJ keeps stuff like that up and keeps gaining Wray, Rush, and the other civilians respect I could see her as a leader. But right now I think they would turn on her the moment things got tough.

And this would be different from the current command structure?

When things go wrong the people always blame the government/leader. That isn't a new construct.

[EllieVee]

If Wray was in charge, things would be the same.

[Deevil]

If Wray was in charge, things would be the same.

No matter who is in charge things would be the same. Really, the balance of power will come with whoever controls the military... or the guns. I kind of hope we see things escalate to people vying for control.

[GateroomGuard]

Things have been tough and they've stuck with Young. They don't necessarily like him all the time but they have let him lead them through crisis after crisis. Greer and his Marines play a part, but Young has a commanding presesence. Young has been able to put Wray in her place before, has been willing to use violence to get the crew in line(slamming Spencer in the wall), and has left Rush on a planet for the safety of the ship. Everyone knows Young has it in him to do those things, but with TJ she would have to take a lot of time to prove she can be just as hard as Young was.

If TJ had been in command from the beggining they would see her just like they see Young, a military dictator for all intents and purposes. If Young steps down now and puts her in command they'll still see her as being Youngs puppet due to their close relationship. The civillians would still be trying to mutiny and Greer probably wouldn't do what Young asked and just let it happen. Greer seems to treat Young like he would a father, defend him unless he asks you not to. With TJ Greer seems to treat her like a sister, defend her even when she tells you not to.

TJ could be a very effective leader in the future but with the current political climate aboard the Destiny any change in leadership to any other military personel will be seen badly. Destiny needs a strong established leader lwho they all know can and will make hard decisions and use harsh methods. Young for all his faults is the only guy for the job currently.

[Deevil]

Sorry GateroomGuard young is not the guy for the job as leader. I think he needs to go, and needs to go quick. I also think that TJ is the only military officer capable of being Leader of the Destiny.

PS. No one on Destiny knows about the affair between Young and TJ, so that would not affect the potential change in leadership (that would never happen).

[GateroomGuard]

Sorry GateroomGuard young is not the guy for the job as leader. I think he needs to go, and needs to go quick. I also think that TJ is the only military officer capable of being Leader of the Destiny.

PS. No one on Destiny knows about the affair between Young and TJ, so that would not affect the potential change in leadership (that would never happen).

I'd have to disagree. Young has done some questionable things but he has kept the ship together through crisis after crisis. He is not afraid to risk his own life and he cares about crewmembers like Franklin even though they've tried to mutiny. The guys not perfect and there are plenty of better commanders for a situation like this. John Sheppard would be great as he knows what it's like to be completely cut-off from Earth and support. But Young is the best they've got.

The crew may not know about Young and TJs afair but they all know that she's his left hand, Scott his right hand, and Greer his fist. Plus TJs smart enough to ask for advice from people who know more than her. Shes not afraid to ask Rush or Wray for advice so she would ask Young the same. That would just make her look like Youngs puppet. The only way TJ could effectively take control would be if either Young dies or TJ removes him herself. As long as the crew see her as being on Youngs side she'll just be a puppet in their mind.

Of course thats all just my opinon.

[EllieVee]

Things have been tough and they've stuck with Young. They don't necessarily like him all the time but they have let him lead them through crisis after crisis. Greer and his Marines play a part, but Young has a commanding presesence. Young has been able to put Wray in her place before, has been willing to use violence to get the crew in line(slamming Spencer in the wall), and has left Rush on a planet for the safety of the ship. Everyone knows Young has it in him to do those things, but with TJ she would have to take a lot of time to prove she can be just as hard as Young was.

Consider that they have 'let' him because he's in charge of the people with the guns. It would be very different otherwise, I think.

[GateroomGuard]

Consider that they have 'let' him because he's in charge of the people with the guns. It would be very different otherwise, I think.

Its not just because he's in charge of the people with the guns, its because he wouldn't be afraid to use the people with the guns. The crew knows if they mutiny Young wouldn't hesitate to put them down. They don't know that of TJ. Wray would have a hard time gaining the militarys loyalty. Scott's to idealistic. And no one is loyal to Rush. That leaves Young as the only one with the militarys loyalty and the civillians fear.

[EllieVee]

Its not just because he's in charge of the people with the guns, its because he wouldn't be afraid to use the people with the guns. The crew knows if they mutiny Young wouldn't hesitate to put them down. They don't know that of TJ. Wray would have a hard time gaining the militarys loyalty. Scott's to idealistic. And no one is loyal to Rush. That leaves Young as the only one with the militarys loyalty and the civillians fear.

Yet another reason why he's a crappy leader.

[GateroomGuard]

Yet another reason why he's a crappy leader.

Fear was probably the wrong word but I couldn't think of how to describe it... an extreme cautious respect culminating in obedience? Young isn't the best leader I've seen, but I can't see anyone else on the ship doing any better or reaching Young's level.

[EllieVee]

Fear was probably the wrong word but I couldn't think of how to describe it... an extreme cautious respect culminating in obedience? Young isn't the best leader I've seen, but I can't see anyone else on the ship doing any better or reaching Young's level.

No, but ruling by fear is hardly good and neither is being obedient only because of that fear.

[Deevil]

I'd have to disagree. Young has done some questionable things but he has kept the ship together through crisis after crisis. He is not afraid to risk his own life and he cares about crewmembers like Franklin even though they've tried to mutiny. The guys not perfect and there are plenty of better commanders for a situation like this.

He cares about Franklin? Really? He doesn't appear to care about anyone beyond Greer, Scott, TJ and Eli... and Eli was just because he has something to offer him. After Justice I can see that relationship turning south.

Young is far from being equiped to be a leader, and I honestly want him unceremoniously booted.

[EllieVee]

He cares about Franklin? Really? He doesn't appear to care about anyone beyond Greer, Scott, TJ and Eli... and Eli was just because he has something to offer him. After Justice I can see that relationship turning south.

Young is far from being equiped to be a leader, and I honestly want him unceremoniously booted.

Amen, sister. Look at his attitude towards James in the extended pilot.

[GateroomGuard]

No, but ruling by fear is hardly good and neither is being obedient only because of that fear.

Hm. Must just be different philosophies. At the core for me everyone obeys out of fear of something and everyone has power only through fear. I fear being evil so I don't do evil things, and I obey my conscience because I fear letting my morals down.

That said I also believe power is derived from the consent of the governed. Young has power only because the crew and military allow it. They've consented for whatever reason to his command. Youngs case is actually very interesting to me. The pragmatist in me sees his command as the only way for the Destiny to survive, yet the idealist in me sees his command as only being right if he has the majorities approval. And I've always been more of an idealist. Hmmm.

Thanks for the discussion, you've brought a real philosophical debate to the pragmatist and idealist in my mind.

He cares about Franklin? Really? He doesn't appear to care about anyone beyond Greer, Scott, TJ and Eli... and Eli was just because he has something to offer him. After Justice I can see that relationship turning south.

Young is far from being equiped to be a leader, and I honestly want him unceremoniously booted.

He risked his life to get water for the crew, when he could have had anyone do it. He protected Franklin from Spencer. It seems to me he cares deeply about the crew.

Amen, sister. Look at his attitude towards James in the extended pilot.

I didn't see the extended pilot. Could you tell me what you are reffering to?