'Incursion, Part 2' (120) General Discussion

[Commander Zelix]

Tomatoe Tomato.

Its just sematics. The general point is the same. The Clone was almost the same in character traits as the original. They made the move and chickened out. And keeping this with SGU if you tend to kill a main character they need to stay dead.

Personally, I really liked those episodes with Weir returns as a replicator. It was just some good stories. It was not like she was back as a regular character and you always felt it was not the real Weir. The fact that she was not the real Weir was brought up a couple of times. It was great.

For me it was not about she's dead she can or can't come back rules. It was just good stories.

[theta123]

This was/is a great episode. It kept me watching every second. I was thrilled to see this end, but before i knew it, the episode was over.

How long till season 2?

[Ekiel]

Of course, as someone else said if they did that we wouldnt have gotten 2 eps.

It's still a gaping plot hole. I don't think they would have ended the season earlier because of a less brain-damaged Young.

the most boring cliffhanger I have ever seen, what a joke.

It's from "Screenwriting for Dummies":

Chapter 10 - The Cliffhanger

A cliffhanger or cliffhanger ending is a plot device in fiction which features a main character in a precarious or difficult dilemma. A cliffhanger is hoped to ensure the audience will return to see how the characters resolve the dilemma.

A popular form of a cliffhanger is leaving your characters seemingly mortally wounded or facing certain death. It is especially well placed in season finales to ensure an upper hand in contract renegotiations.

You should try to place as much of your characters as possible in these situations. Your audience will be left in awe and have no other choice than to watch your next episode ... and cliffhanger.

Note that season finales should not try to resolve any story threads but rather invest the screen time in creating more cliffhangers.

Seriously, it felt so lazy. They are all going to die, or are they?

Excuse me? Have you heard of Daniel Jackson? He was the first regular to be killed off – the fact that he came back, by your own definition, doesn’t count.

Daniel ascended - they left the door wide open for him to come back.
Carson exploded.

[blackluster]

I had reviews before watching the ep which were rather critical but I was quite pleased when I eventually watched it. Even though I knew what was going to happen, the tension was very well generated. I like the inclusion of the astronomical event and the explanation about the quasar drew in Volkner nicely since it is his area of expertise. This has been one of the highlights for me of SGU. In a subtle way, they've reintroduced some of the wonder of space which had all but disappeared by early SG1 already.

Back to the tension, I liked how Lou Diamond was playing Telford, you could see from all his mannerisms that he really was a guy walking a tightrope trying to keep the situation under control. The Eli/Chloe moments were also a nice aside to the whole situation and weren't completely wasted since we get to see Eli display a bit more sincerely how he feels his current relationship status with Chloe isn't what he wants. Just a note though, his mis-matched physique has become a little distracting, since these are people who are supposed to have been living on rations and fruit for several weeks now.

The action was also intense and just the right level of shocking. Soldiers losing their lives in an instant in what is a very unnecessary fight is never nice to see and it does a good job of demonizing the Kiva character, which will make going forward with the Lucian Alliance guys even harder. The Varro character had some very meaningful insight that a truce would have to come at some point and they'd all have to be big about it. This is the outlook of someone who has seen a lot I think and only goes further to confirming these people as more than the thugs and riff-raff that the SGC would make them out to be.

I expect a straightforward solution to the cliffhangers next season but it should still be enjoyable. I've been pleased with the results of SGU so far and if the producers can stay true to some of the core concepts they've introduced in terms of storytelling, then I think they'll have something good on their hands.

[jelgate]

It's still a gaping plot hole. I don't think they would have ended the season earlier because of a less brain-damaged Young.

No its not. A character making a mistake and his actions aren't a plot hole. Be ing stupid is not a plot hole since we know how the plot unfolds. Plot holes are not knowing how the plot develops

[Jumper_One]

imadaman writes: “Riley may have been shot, but there’s the (lovely :3) chance that he’s still alive, right?”

Answer: Sure, there’s a chance – but tune in to fine out for certain.

Kevin also writes: “(2) When Kiva said ‘next time we bring our own food/water’, was that a retrospect statement? or an allusion to them having a third icarus planet?”

Answer: The former.

Kevin also writes: “(3) Where did Kiva lose the 100 people she mentioned? It kinda looked like she was one of the last to leave the base..as any good commander should be. It didn’t really look like their was any spirited defense… a la Icarus Base.”

Answer: We can assume the base was much larger and that others were trapped in remote sections of the facility when it came under attack.

Michael writes: “So what do they do with the dead bodies of the KIA’s before this episode?”

Answer: Space ‘em.

Michael Jones writes: “[...] 2.) I saw James being captured during the changeover, but she didn’t seem to be in the room with Young and the other military personell… was she placed with the civilians or did she somehow get away… [...]”

Answers: [...] 2) James wasn’t captured.[...]

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...ellen-kushner/

[Confessor Rahl]

Telford was the highlight of these last two episodes, excellent acting on behalf of Phillips. Unfortunately, that is about all I liked about it. This was one of the most dull season finales I think I have ever seen.

[Lahela]

Michael Jones writes: “[...] 2.) I saw James being captured during the changeover, but she didn’t seem to be in the room with Young and the other military personell… was she placed with the civilians or did she somehow get away… [...]”

Answers: [...] 2) James wasn’t captured.[...]
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...ellen-kushner/

Then who the heck was that woman standing with her hands on her head at around 30:40 then getting led away by the LA guys?

[Artemis-Neith]

Then who the heck was that woman standing with her hands on her head at around 30:40 then getting led away by the LA guys?

That's a good question, so it was not James I've seen?

[Petra]

Daniel ascended - they left the door wide open for him to come back.
Carson exploded.

It's easy to say in the retrospect when you know he did another 4 seasons and guest-starred in season 6. Back in the day, when MS left in a rather dramatic way and his relationship with TPTB was, uh, strained, with huge campaign to bring him back the general feeling was that Daniel was very much dead. That's all I'm saying.

If you want to argue semantics: Daniel lost his physical body, which in our culture means death. Carson lost his physical body, which in our culture means death. They both returned in spite of that. I don't see big difference here, and it certainly isn't worth arguing. I'm sticking to what I said.

That's a good question, so it was not James I've seen?

I've just rewatched the scene Lahela described and it is James, with 3 other soldiers, surrendering. Weird, that..

[Loheat]

That's a good question, so it was not James I've seen?

Oops. Thought you were referring to the hostage scenario in Incursion I.

Yep, she’s been captured – along with everyone but Eli, Chloe, Rush, and Brody. And Scott and Greer topside, about to get fried.

Blog post explaining the James situation

[Kaiphantom]

No its not. A character making a mistake and his actions aren't a plot hole. Be ing stupid is not a plot hole since we know how the plot unfolds. Plot holes are not knowing how the plot develops

Not true. If a character is developed one way, and makes several large idiot mistakes that they shouldn't have made, then it is a plot hole. Well, probably be more accurate to say "plot-induced stupidity."

I've recently been watching some reviews of the Star Wars prequels, and one of the major things that the reviewer points out, is that everyone are idiots. Palpatine taking over is put into perspective because it's easy for a semi-smart man to rule over idiots. The prequels are painful because too many people make too many stupid plays.

When your characters are Too Dumb To Live, you have a problem, and it is a plot hole. It's difficult to follow a plot that can only happen because everyone is an idiot.

[SG7]

Not true. If a character is developed one way, and makes several large idiot mistakes that they shouldn't have made, then it is a plot hole. Well, probably be more accurate to say "plot-induced stupidity."

I've recently been watching some reviews of the Star Wars prequels, and one of the major things that the reviewer points out, is that everyone are idiots. Palpatine taking over is put into perspective because it's easy for a semi-smart man to rule over idiots. The prequels are painful because too many people make too many stupid plays.

When your characters are Too Dumb To Live, you have a problem, and it is a plot hole. It's difficult to follow a plot that can only happen because everyone is an idiot.

Exactly. If you are with a group of people who are "too dumb to live", the I don't think I'd want to be with that camp of people thanks.

[Egle01]

This finale didn't quite leave me with ZOMG-what's-going-to-happen-next??-feeling. I was shocked by what all had just happened.

[Sami_]

I really enjoyed Incursion Pt 1 and was looking forward to Pt 2 but it felt really flat and bland, I'm not exactly sure why but I just didn't find it entertaining at all.