'Incursion, Part 2' (120) General Discussion

[LoneStar1836]

I thought whatever happened to Kiva would be more dramatic. Instead, it happened so fast that if you blinked you might have missed it.

Ha! You didn't have to blink since the screen cut to black.

[Motion Wall]

I know you have to respect what SGA did, but I understand bringing him back kinda ruined the whole drama to Carson dying in the first place. If you think about it, SGA was the only SG show to date to kill off a main character. Bringing him back is just a totally different discussion. I loved the Kindred, but did not care for him in Season 5 as much.

If they kill off a main in the next season or so, and leave them dead, I will be very impressed. But I don't think they will because of this fandom.

In regards to Carson I think most people were in disbelief about how ridiculus his death was, if he had died in a heroic non exploding tumor way I think most people would of been like I love you Carson, Sleep tight good prince. Or something along those lines. To me it left a bad taste in my mouth as it was just poorly done and clearly designed to eject him from the series, it had no real build up or feeling to it. Instead of feeling sad for him it was just one of those blank *....* in disbelief at what I just saw.

Anyway back on subject I would like to think if they killed off a main, say TJ, or Wray or someone along those lines it'd have a decent build up, though I would hope everyone would make it back to Earth alive, deaths do occur, I would love to see a proper send off if one such tragic death happens, like a gathering of the characters and words being spoken, even if its at the end of an ep before the credits.

[SciFiRick]

Well I have to say I was worried about the season finale and my worries were pretty unjustified. I assumed they were going to kill off a bunch of characters but all the ones I was worried about made it out. Volker, Brody, James, and Park all made it. I'm worried about Riley but I'm pretty sure I saw him moving after the shooting.

The only people in any real danger were the main cast. And since their the main cast their all safe, they never die, they just fall unconsious for the finale and wake up next episode. The secondary characters are the only ones I ever worry about because they don't go unconsious they just die.

You saw it correctly with regards to Riley. Looks like he got shot in the leg for he was grabbing that area when he got hit and then in the upper left corner of the scene after the shooting stopped you can see his lower body move and appeared to be holding his leg. You have to watch the shooting scene in slow mo to see when he first got hit.

[Briangate78]

Though I would've preferred to have Kiva stroll in and shoot her (Followed by Young returning the favour later), what we got was fine. Nothing we wouldn't have gotten on SG-1 or Atlantis, to use your favourite comparison techniques.

I really actually hate comparing the shows, I do it because others do it, lol.

[SciFiRick]

I have to agree with the original poster. I had an idea what was going to happen before it did. I also think too many people got wounded and shot, and it basically lost it's drama effect. Kiva shooting TJ in cold blood would of been really powerful.

OK, As I watched this episode I was wondering about all that blood. I haven't seen any mops, detergents or cleaning stuff. Maybe the alcohol from the "still" can be used and there doesn't seem to be a washer/dryer system on board. Not an important point because it IS TV but I caught myself thinking about it momentarily.

[SciFiRick]

Very good action episode, but I won't as far as saying it was great overall episode.

There was a lot of actions but there's simply no meat to the story as I said last week. For example, The Island movie is not all action, it has action but also an interesting story about a perfect society of the future, then a society with a dark secret, then 2 adult-children in a modern society, then clone vs clone. Obviously the same could be said about many Sci-fi action movie like Minority Report, Avatar, Matrix, etc.

The action happening was good but wasn't great. It was about a whole episode about trading hostages and stuff.

But within this limited storyline, everything works great imo. I like Wray presenting some civilian counter-point to Young. Which must be the worst commander in television history (which could be realist. He's simply NOT a TV heroe. He sucks and not as good at what he does as other TV heroes ). As I said, I liked the Wray character in this episode.

Kiva and the other LA were also very descent villains, again a bit too standard and basic for Sci-fi, but they are not too dumb and their action somehow make sense (which is not evident in a lot of TV/Movie which often portray villain as completely illogical and violent morons). Obviously, we will know more about the LA true intention about the Destiny in Season 2. As of now, they are just suicidal villain hellbent on getting trap on a rusted ship with no food and no chance of getting back ever.

I think the episode was also well written character wise from Scott and Greer exchange to Eli and Chloe, passing by TJ with the LA guys. Everybody was in character and sometime present some divergent point of view on the situation.

I must say Telford really redeem himself in those last episodes. I didn't like the character before but post-brainwashed Telford seems like a good military guy. If earth is looking for a replacement for Young, there you have it. Scott is too soft, Greer too gun happy, TJ is a medic, BAG prefer to work on a metaphysical level, James is too much a cry baby, etc. Telford now that is some leadership!!

I like the Eli and Chloe subplot from his declaration of love to them wondering what happens on the ship and trying to survive. They made a nice, even if somewhat simplist, diversion to the hostage swapping main storyline.

Nice cliffhanger even if there's really nothing to it. It's a basic will they die will they not, not a game changer (like the Destiny exploding, all the crew left on some planet by the LA, or a parallel universe Destiny crew shooting Destiny people and taking over the Destiny in the last 20 min with a few explanations, etc, etc). I think Justice had a better cliffhanger for example, because of the consequence of what Young did, same as wondering what will happen to Rush. It was a game changer.

Again in this episode the special effects were simply top notch. I also like the cinematography and the music score.

Also kudos to the secondary characters which are one of the SGU strength.

While I'm not afraid to ditch out real ratings like 3 for earth, 2 for life, maybe 4 for Sabotage, 5 for Justice, maybe 8 for Time, 8 for Space.

I will give this episode a 7. A good action episode with no meat as a storyline but good at what it does (action). Entertaining and fun.

What or who does "BAG" mean?

[Demerzel]

What or who does "BAG" mean?

BAG is the Balding Asian Guy, a demigod in the Stargate cannon. He was using the form of a medic on Atlantis, and went on to pose as a scientist on Destiny while watching over the people on the ship like a guardian angel. He pretty much makes Adria at full power look like a wuss.

[SciFiRick]

Thats also the problem with this episode, there is no tension going into the next episode, cause they arent going to be killed in the 3rd part of a trilogy, and lets be honest, some of these characters need to be killed off, the quicker the better.

I don't think it is so much thinking that a main character is going to die but How The Writers Develop the story in showing how they survive the near miss to the viewers. I myself know that the main characters will survive but i can't wait to see how it unfolds. I agree with Jel. It also depends on contract renewals or negotiations that kill off main characters. Fortunately, we don't see what is done with soap operas in that a new actor continues playing the same character roll.

[wargrafix]

You know, as much as an emotional powerkeg and Young is, he does have humility on his side. It was nice to see him bring food for the Rush and the others.

[SciFiRick]

Does anyone else think Varro should actually be the character Ventrell, that Mike Dopud played in the SG-1 episode Bounty, it would have been a nice bit of continuity for those fans who watched SG-1, but wouldn't have any adverse effect on those who've only seen SGU.

He also play the roll as a Runner named Kiryk in Season 5 SGA episode "Tracker"
2005 Season 8 SG-1 Episode "Full Alert" as Colonel Chernovshev

[EllieVee]

I know you have to respect what SGA did, but I understand bringing him back kinda ruined the whole drama to Carson dying in the first place. If you think about it, SGA was the only SG show to date to kill off a main character. Bringing him back is just a totally different discussion. I loved the Kindred, but did not care for him in Season 5 as much.

If they kill off a main in the next season or so, and leave them dead, I will be very impressed. But I don't think they will because of this fandom.

Carson's death was done purely for shock value (as Paul McGillion has related numerous times) and advanced the story not a whit until they decided to bring him back (which as you say ruined the drama). I actually agree with the poster who said that Kiva killing someone in cold blood would have been effective because she did that (Rivers) and as can be seen from posts about it, it was effective. It simply wasn't a main character. The question for me is, should it have been?

You know, as much as an emotional powerkeg and Young is, he does have humility on his side. It was nice to see him bring food for the Rush and the others.

And certainly a role he can probably do without stuffing it up too much ...

[SciFiRick]

The very last scene at the end, where Young looks up towards the ceiling--


I don't think Young was thinking about his past mistakes at that precise moment.
I think Young was watching the clock and making a very calculated move. The fact that he refused to kneel was brave enough, because I fully expected the LA guy to whack Young's knees at any moment. But Young was also keeping a very close eye on the 46 minute windown time for when the next gamma burst would/might occur. When he looked up and the lights began to flicker, the next move will be a very calculated move -- just as it was when Young was clock-watching over bringing Telford to the brink of death and then doing CPR on him.

Same idea, but different situation.

As for Wray, she reminds me of a typical liberal nice lady who believes too much that in being kind would grant kindness in return. She wasn't prepared for the stark reality of Kiva being so ruthless that Kiva would drop a dead body as the 4th prisoner exchange. Problem is, Wray got exactly what she asked for -- four for four prisoners in exchange. Wray did not specify that the people she asked for should be soldiers or alive, well, and healthy.

Rush was spot on with his assessment of how Kiva operates -- that when Kiva finds someone is of no use to her, she'll dump or kill them.

I doubt if the prisoner exchange incident will change Wray's way of thinking (that some people are just totally evil, and beauty can be *drop-deadening* deceiving), but it certainly opened her eyes a little bit to see how a killer, cold-blooded assassin, or terrorist operates. Kiva would be better off dead, or hauled off by the little blue aliens , or dying by superior (power of) intervention, for Destiny's sake.


And one question that hasn't been answered is, what does Kiva's team or the LA know about the Destiny, that the folks on Destiny don't even know about.
As Rush said earlier "it's a rust-bucket"..
Apart from re-energizing itself with the power of the stars themselves, and whatever the chair is useful for, and the keno drone cameras, what good is it? Seriously -- inquiring minds would like to know.




Maybe they only made it halfway towards the front of the ship, and found refuge in the shuttle (if there is a way in from the outside of the ship)? Doubtful, because of how Eli was meeting them at a cross-road somewhere.

Greer playing pointman, tho -- awesome!
And maybe Greer really does have some medic experience, too. With T.J. down, someone is going to have to do the medic stuff pronto; at least to start with. Mind-transfer stones to earth or not.



Indeed. TPTB should do more interesting view shots like that.

I agree with you about Young. I think that is exactly what Young is doing when he was looking up as the power starts fluctuating and the scene fades out. As you said: "Young was watching the clock and making a very calculated move." / "Young was also keeping a very close eye on the 46 minute window time for when the next gamma burst would/might occur. When he looked up and the lights began to flicker, the next move will be a very calculated move -- just as it was when Young was clock-watching over bringing Telford to the brink of death and then doing CPR on him

[Briangate78]

Carson's death was done purely for shock value (as Paul McGillion has related numerous times) and advanced the story not a whit until they decided to bring him back (which as you say ruined the drama). I actually agree with the poster who said that Kiva killing someone in cold blood would have been effective because she did that (Rivers) and as can be seen from posts about it, it was effective. It simply wasn't a main character. The question for me is, should it have been?

I think if she shot TJ, not killing her, it would of been very powerful.

[Commander Zelix]

I mean been there done that. Having say the Smurf Aliens show up would of been perfect.

Yes, somebody else brought it up on this thread. It would have been soooooo kick ass and add a little something to the somewhat simplistic "taking over the ship" plot. Still I think it was a good episode (even if I preferred subversion and incursion part 1).

[Commander Zelix]

Okay you got me there. Thinking it over, making Young go crazy nuts here today is a better alternative than waiting four months, building up his craziness... and what we get come season 2 isn't as good as we hyped it. But it's Young, so I could be surprised.

Spoiler:

What's the deal with talks of Young becoming crazy, did I miss something? Or are you guys spoiling stuff for me? A little me who wouldn't even know the title of season 2 episodes.