Power should be shared

[Orion Antreas]

I actually proposed a collaboration between the three parties on the ship.

Honestly, I think there should be a council as some people have thrown around. It would seat three people representing 3 factions: scientists (Rush), civilians (Wray), and military (Young). When a need for fast-acting decisions, that decision will be made by Young. Usually fast-acting decisions occur during military situations, so that would make sense. That would be simple, yet efficient if all parties were to cooperate. If I was on the ship, I would advocate a structure like this. (Give or take a few ideas along the way.)

These three individuals seem to represent each faction, however, it seems that all three would also exploit their power to achieve their goals, so I ain't sure who should really represent the three factions in this council-like system.

[nx01a]

The best I can think of after Young/Wray/Rush would be Scott/Chloe/Eli... Poor Chloe.
I'd love to put TJ in that tripartite system, but her medical duties could interfere adversely with helping to lead them.

[FallenAngelII]

yes, lets have a committee meeting while we're being shot by aliens, when we decide to repel boarders do we need another meeting to determine whether ranged or melee are used to do it?

Yes, let's not actually read even the OP before responding with a strawman. As head of the military, Young would be in command when being shot at by aliens.

Hypothetical scenario; Young reports to O'neal that Wray that snake launched a coup, O'neal discusses with Woolzie and overrules him on grounds of inciting mutiny and pulls rank. Wray is informed via stone link that she is effectively fired or suspended by the IOA until further notice. The crew is informed of Wray's removal from any authority and reminded that they are still under the command of the United States Airforce. And Destiny has been officially confiscated by the military and if you don't want to be part of it then there is an airlock otherwise military rule remains on a military base of operations, which would be the same rules as if they were on Icarus base.

Yeah, because that attempted murder will be a big hit with the military brass back on Earth, especially after that aggravated assault.

Dream on. If Wray gets punished for the mutiny, Young will get jailed for attempted murder.

[nx01a]

And Rush will take over. Or Scott, as the case may be.

[FallenAngelII]

And Rush will take over. Or Scott, as the case may be.

Scott isn't fit to lead anything except maybe an off-world team. He's still young and immature. He thinks not with his head, but with his heart. He can't even think of the "greater good". It's always "I must save every single person". That thinking will lead to the deaths of many when a situation arises when there is no way to save everyone.

[nx01a]

You're certainly right about Scott. Him in command and Chloe in danger would automatically equal, "Weapons to maximum!"
Well, in my opinion, Rush is also dangerous if left in command. I'm sure there would be rapid progress, but how many expendable people would have to suffer for it to be achieved?

[pipi]

Yeah, because that attempted murder will be a big hit with the military brass back on Earth, especially after that aggravated assault.

Dream on. If Wray gets punished for the mutiny, Young will get jailed for attempted murder.

There's a thing called evidence and a trial before any punishment. The chance of a successful prosecution for inciting mutiny far out weighs one man's word against another's word on an alien planet. Do the maths. And the severity of the allegations are vastly not equal. And the parties involved are different. You're comparing Young vs Rush to Young vs Wray.

[FallenAngelII]

There's a thing called evidence and a trial before any punishment. The chance of a successful prosecution for inciting mutiny far out weighs one man's word against another's word on an alien planet. Do the maths. And the severity of the allegations are vastly not equal. And the parties involved are different. You're comparing Young vs Rush to Young vs Wray.

Oh, so you're saying Young is a big enough of a conceited, selfish ******* to try to get the IOA to punish Wray and Rush while at the same time lying about his actions on the desert planet? Wow, what a great leader that man is!

It's not just one man's word against one other man now. He admitted it to Wray at the end of "Divided". And even though hey were talking in hushed voices, maybe some of the civilians standing nearby heard him. And considering his track record (Telford), the military brass would at least have enough doubt to relieve him of his post, lest they face the wrath of the civilian populus of the Destiny.

Because they're not gonna stand for Wray getting punished with Young getting off the hook.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

pipi,

There's a thing called evidence and a trial before any punishment. The chance of a successful prosecution for inciting mutiny far out weighs one man's word against another's word on an alien planet. Do the maths. And the severity of the allegations are vastly not equal. And the parties involved are different. You're comparing Young vs Rush to Young vs Wray.

Sounds like you're cool with Young telling black tounge lies about what happened between him and Rush. Are you?

[pipi]

It's not just one man's word against one other man now. He admitted it to Wray at the end of "Divided".

<mod snip> Rush can admit whatever to as many people as he wants to confide in and it'll still ONLY be his word and no other evidence. If anything, by telling Wray and other people of his version of events it has caused a chain reaction by sowing extra decent into the civilian population based ONLY on his word. Nothing has been proven yet. And Rush went with the rockslide story at first, his testimony keeps changing making his word in a court of law worthless. So there will never be sufficient evidence to put Young in jail, but there is plenty of evidence to put Wray away. Got that? These are facts.

[Daro]

<mod snip> Rush can admit whatever to as many people as he wants to confide in and it'll still ONLY be his word and no other evidence. If anything, by telling Wray and other people of his version of events it has caused a chain reaction by sowing extra decent into the civilian population based ONLY on his word. Nothing has been proven yet. And Rush went with the rockslide story at first, his testimony keeps changing making his word in a court of law worthless. So there will never be sufficient evidence to put Young in jail, but there is plenty of evidence to put Wray away. Got that? These are facts.

Dissent, not decent.

The civilians obviously believe that Rush told the version of the story about the rockslide because he was in a public place and didn't know who was on his side, and feared that Young would finish the job. That's easy to believe. Just because we viewers have seen Rush lie a lot doesn't mean that most of the others on the ship have.
Besides that, the argument wasn't even that Rush told Wray and that's how she knew. It was that Young confirmed it. Now you have the testimony of both dudes involved, and that's a solid case. Besides that, we know that, this time, at least, Rush was telling the truth.

[Skydiver]

AGAIN

Folks, stuff like 'are you stupid' is not a part of a debate or conversation.
Keep it civil or keep it to yourself

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

pipi,

As long as there are communication stones and they have to report to their respective leaders back on Earth, there will be no sharing of the so called power.

Hypothetical scenario; Young reports to O'neal that Wray that snake launched a coup, O'neal discusses with Woolzie and overrules him on grounds of inciting mutiny and pulls rank. Wray is informed via stone link that she is effectively fired or suspended by the IOA until further notice. The crew is informed of Wray's removal from any authority and reminded that they are still under the command of the United States Airforce. And Destiny has been officially confiscated by the military and if you don't want to be part of it then there is an airlock otherwise military rule remains on a military base of operations, which would be the same rules as if they were on Icarus base.

If I were on the science team or a civilian I would quite simply refuse to do any more work and encourage others to follow my example I might even stage a hunger strike.

[beafly]

pipi,



If I were on the science team or a civilian I would quite simply refuse to do any more work and encourage others to follow my example I might even stage a hunger strike.

To what end are you striking?

In your ideal scenario, what would happen?

EDIT: I only ask because I'm struggling to understand the motivation of Joe scientist aboard the Destiny. Rush I think I get. Wray I think I get. I see them using their own selfish motivations to steer the rest of the scientists in a specific direction. What does Joe scientist REALLY want?

[FallenAngelII]

<mod snip> Rush can admit whatever to as many people as he wants to confide in and it'll still ONLY be his word and no other evidence. If anything, by telling Wray and other people of his version of events it has caused a chain reaction by sowing extra decent into the civilian population based ONLY on his word. Nothing has been proven yet. And Rush went with the rockslide story at first, his testimony keeps changing making his word in a court of law worthless. So there will never be sufficient evidence to put Young in jail, but there is plenty of evidence to put Wray away. Got that? These are facts.

Young admitted to it to Wray!

What evidence is there to "put Wray away"? It's Young's and the military's word against that of Wray's and the civilians' (and the civilians outnumber the military). Likewise, it's Rush's and the civilians' words against Young's and the military's. There were several civilians present when Young admitted to Wray that he left Rush behind to die on the planet on purpose.

"I didn't do it!"
"You did!"
"You admitted to me you did!"
"I was there and heard you admit to her that you did!"

It's now one man's word against, what, four people. It's not enough to put Young in jail, perhaps, but it's enough to relieve him of his command. If he goes to the military brass back on Earth and complains about Wray and Rush and tries to have them locked up, Wray and Rush will go to the IOA, who are above the U.S. military, and have them pull some strings to relieve Young of his duties permanently.

And I still wanna hear about all of this this alleged "evidence" that exists to put Wray away.