'Divided' (112) General Discussion

[Gollumpus]

My view is that the military who ran the base were very different to the actual expedition people, of whom Rush was one and Telford another. All Young did was run the base in support of the expedition and quest to solve the ninth chevron. This doesn't automatically place him in charge of the civilians even if O'Neill says so because O'Neill would have no authority to put anyone in charge unless the IOA agreed to it.

Well, I believe it does place him in charge of the civilians who are in his charge. Everyone who was on Icarus base were under Young's command. Icarus was a military base. The civilians were part of his base's personnel. If Young told them to do something they would have to have a very good reason to buck Young's authority and convince him that he should change his mind. If they failed to do so, and still refrained from following his "orders" then he would be within his rights to confine them to quarters and eventually have them returned to Earth. When they were evacuated to Destiny their status did not suddenly change, at least in Young's opinion, and the civilian population have done nothing to convince him (or me) that their status should change. Think of Hammond. If he told Dr. Lee to shut something down, Dr. Lee shut the something down. If Hammond told Dr. Lee to confer with him before doing something Dr. Lee damn well did. How are things with Young any different?

I'm not sure what your reference to Telford and company was supposed to achieve. Was Telford's "elite" group different from the standard SGC folks under Young's command? Yup. That's part of what the show is all about. Are you suggesting that things on Destiny would be different if only Telford and company were on board as was the plan? Yup. Would things be different if it was Telford and company were on board in place of Young and his standard SGC troops? Yup... they'd be worse for the civilians.

regards,
G.

[major davis]

i dont know who i would side with but i do for one thing this is not the last we'll see of those blue aliens. i have a feeling we'll see them one more time this season cause in the Universe 1.5 trailer.

Spoiler:

those aliens make it to the destiny

i just dont know what episode we'll see them in.

By elimination it will be

Spoiler:

in episode 117, Pain

There is no other possible place.

[harakiri]

Well, I believe it does place him in charge of the civilians who are in his charge. Everyone who was on Icarus base were under Young's command. Icarus was a military base. The civilians were part of his base's personnel. If Young told them to do something they would have to have a very good reason to buck Young's authority and convince him that he should change his mind. If they failed to do so, and still refrained from following his "orders" then he would be within his rights to confine them to quarters and eventually have them returned to Earth. When they were evacuated to Destiny their status did not suddenly change, at least in Young's opinion, and the civilian population have done nothing to convince him (or me) that their status should change. Think of Hammond. If he told Dr. Lee to shut something down, Dr. Lee shut the something down. If Hammond told Dr. Lee to confer with him before doing something Dr. Lee damn well did. How are things with Young any different?

I'm not sure what your reference to Telford and company was supposed to achieve. Was Telford's "elite" group different from the standard SGC folks under Young's command? Yup. That's part of what the show is all about. Are you suggesting that things on Destiny would be different if only Telford and company were on board as was the plan? Yup. Would things be different if it was Telford and company were on board in place of Young and his standard SGC troops? Yup... they'd be worse for the civilians.

regards,
G.

I have to agree with you here. If Telford was the only other option for being in command it would have been much much worse I think. Rush might have got more free to do what he wants,but that is not very good. It could be fatal for the scientists,as we have seen. Even if we don`t really know if he had much to do with the one (whats his name?) that sat in the chair,but he made it very clear that this was their only hope to get home.

In Divided we saw how far Rush is willing to go to reach his goals,and I am not sure his goals are the same as most of the civilians has. Rush did`nt even tell people about the tracking device inside him,and that not even to Wray.

But this conflict feels more like its pushed in from the writers side. It`s like Blackhole wrote: "First off I want to say that I think the conflict and tension between the civilian and military contingent has been artificially ramped up by the writers for dramatic purposes. The whole coup d'état scenario was imo very unrealistic and premature."

The conflict started to early IMO.

[EvenstarSRV]

Well, I believe it does place him in charge of the civilians who are in his charge. Everyone who was on Icarus base were under Young's command. Icarus was a military base. The civilians were part of his base's personnel. If Young told them to do something they would have to have a very good reason to buck Young's authority and convince him that he should change his mind. If they failed to do so, and still refrained from following his "orders" then he would be within his rights to confine them to quarters and eventually have them returned to Earth. When they were evacuated to Destiny their status did not suddenly change, at least in Young's opinion, and the civilian population have done nothing to convince him (or me) that their status should change. Think of Hammond. If he told Dr. Lee to shut something down, Dr. Lee shut the something down. If Hammond told Dr. Lee to confer with him before doing something Dr. Lee damn well did. How are things with Young any different?

I very much agree. I personally don't understand this idea that the civilians are somehow not under Young's command on Icarus (and on the Destiny as well) simply because they're civilians. As far as I understand it, they are civilian contractors working for the US military and as such are bound to follow the rules and orders of their commanding officer. The civilian scientists at the SGC had to follow Hammond's, Jack's, and Landry's orders, and the scientists on Atlantis had to follow Carter's for a while, as well as Sheppard's orders even when Weir or Woosley were in command. So why would the scientists on Icarus not be required to follow Young's orders?

[garhkal]

This is probably the first time I've ever felt revolted by TJ or James. Interesting.

I actually got MORE respect for her, especially when she got that soldier to stand down.

The scene where Young and Greer are running along the ship, yeah I had this image of Young getting stuck in the hole when they jumped down.

Since i have yet to go to Hulu to watch it again, i cannot be certain. BUT when that team of soldiers were moving near that hole that Young and Greer came in, it almost looked like their was a severed body there...

But have they been told that Young was framed by Rush? Have they been shown the video?

Not yet it seems. bUT i am wondering how may would believe it compared to how many might think that Young had Eli make it up to get them on his side..

You are right Young did assert his independence from earth. He said he would only make decisions he thought were in the best interest of the crew. Personally I agreed with his decision. I think Earth’s rescue plan was far too reckless and Young showed remarkable courage to stand up to them.

And i gave young props for it. BUT since he IS military he does need to act like it, by realising his superiors are above him in the chain.

[Jper]

Since i have yet to go to Hulu to watch it again, i cannot be certain. BUT when that team of soldiers were moving near that hole that Young and Greer came in, it almost looked like their was a severed body there...

Huh? Young and Greer are the only ones who went outside over the hull and then back inside again through the hole. No other severed bodies possible.

[harakiri]

I'm just going to snip everything bar the paragraph I want to reply to for space purposes.



My view is that the military who ran the base were very different to the actual expedition people, of whom Rush was one and Telford another. All Young did was run the base in support of the expedition and quest to solve the ninth chevron. This doesn't automatically place him in charge of the civilians even if O'Neill says so because O'Neill would have no authority to put anyone in charge unless the IOA agreed to it.

I just watch`ed the last 10-20 minutes of "Earth" .
If the person Wray talked in secret with outside once is an IOA person,not sure about that,but if he was/is Jack did exactly that,take the decision on his own over that IOA member in the end of "Earth" .
After Rush and others did get Telford to go back (as the coward he is) when they tried to dial earth,Young was in the meeting room with a whole bunch of people around the table giving an sort of report, the last thing that was said there was:
Young: "After much consideration we`ve decided to stay in communication with earth, I hope personal visits for everyone on board would still be permitted" Then the IOA man (?) said "That depends colonel" ,and then jack interrupt before he could finish: "consider it done" ,which was about it. As I have said am not sure if he was an IOA,but he did surly believe that he had something to say,and maybe he had,but O`Neill did`nt seem to care anything at all about his opinion.

Anyway,that person said to Wray at one point something like she is a highly trusted member of this organisation,so thats why I thought he might be an IOA-menber. However this was just one thing I picked up when I rerun of the episode was on tv,its not very important.

[EllieVee]

Well, I believe it does place him in charge of the civilians who are in his charge. Everyone who was on Icarus base were under Young's command. Icarus was a military base. The civilians were part of his base's personnel. If Young told them to do something they would have to have a very good reason to buck Young's authority and convince him that he should change his mind. If they failed to do so, and still refrained from following his "orders" then he would be within his rights to confine them to quarters and eventually have them returned to Earth. When they were evacuated to Destiny their status did not suddenly change, at least in Young's opinion, and the civilian population have done nothing to convince him (or me) that their status should change. Think of Hammond. If he told Dr. Lee to shut something down, Dr. Lee shut the something down. If Hammond told Dr. Lee to confer with him before doing something Dr. Lee damn well did. How are things with Young any different?

I'm not sure what your reference to Telford and company was supposed to achieve. Was Telford's "elite" group different from the standard SGC folks under Young's command? Yup. That's part of what the show is all about. Are you suggesting that things on Destiny would be different if only Telford and company were on board as was the plan? Yup. Would things be different if it was Telford and company were on board in place of Young and his standard SGC troops? Yup... they'd be worse for the civilians.

regards,
G.

The civilians were not SG folk. They were there to work out the 9th chevron or at least in support of that. Rush, at least, was never part of Young's command.

[jelgate]

The civilians were not SG folk. They were there to work out the 9th chevron or at least in support of that. Rush, at least, was never part of Young's command.

Civilian contractors who sign agreement are essentially part of the command as they agree to follow the military's rules and orders. On Icarus Rush was definatly under Young's (and Telford)command

[EllieVee]

I have to agree with you here. If Telford was the only other option for being in command it would have been much much worse I think. Rush might have got more free to do what he wants,but that is not very good. It could be fatal for the scientists,as we have seen. Even if we don`t really know if he had much to do with the one (whats his name?) that sat in the chair,but he made it very clear that this was their only hope to get home.

In Divided we saw how far Rush is willing to go to reach his goals,and I am not sure his goals are the same as most of the civilians has. Rush did`nt even tell people about the tracking device inside him,and that not even to Wray.

But this conflict feels more like its pushed in from the writers side. It`s like Blackhole wrote: "First off I want to say that I think the conflict and tension between the civilian and military contingent has been artificially ramped up by the writers for dramatic purposes. The whole coup d'état scenario was imo very unrealistic and premature."

The conflict started to early IMO.

I think we've seen quite a lot of conflict between them and a lot of resentment. The whole 'We're going to search your quarters' thing was appalling and without cause in both the food/water and the gun episodes.

In Divided, I think what we saw was a man who was very scared that as soon as Young found out that he had a tracking device inside him, would just shoot him in the head, which, BTW, was what nearly did happen.

[EllieVee]

Civilian contractors who sign agreement are essentially part of the command as they agree to follow the military's rules and orders. On Icarus Rush was definatly under Young's (and Telford)command

For health and safety purposes. Not for work purposes. If Telford gave Rush a command regarding the ninth chevron project, I'd say he'd have to follow it. Unless it was something directly in his bailiwick, Young couldn't order Rush to do squat.

[hisg1fans]

OK. So the civilians stage a coup and then do what?

They all stop working at whatever their various jobs are to go sit on thier lazy a$$@$es and eat all the food and drink all the water? When the ship is attacked, they do nothing in case the ship is boarded, nor do any of them go to "help" Rush, nor do any of them set up a perimeter or any type of contingency or communication plans. Nor do they continue working to try to help the situation by growing food, doing research, try to get home, or do anything else productive. They just sit there like sheep waiting to be slaughtered.

Just what the H*)) was the mutiny for? So they could all sit in the commissary and just wait to die?

Somewhat of a fast-paced episode, but my goodness. I wouldn't want anything to do with a mutiny in the first place as they really aren't a productive way to solve problems, but I sure as h@)) wouldn't want anything to do with this supposed "leadership" who are trying to get me killed 1000 times faster. I just don't get it.

[Stormtrooper]

I'm surprised the civilians started a mutiny over none other than Rush immediately after being attacked by evil smurfs. That's not very, umm, realistic. I think the writers are pushing the civilian/military feud too far. Most of these people, civilian and military, worked together at Icarus Base for years. They are not strangers, much less enemies. People tend to rise to the occasion in difficult times and work together for a common goal. Not former co-workers according to the writers of SGU.

The evil smurfs' purposes escape me. As far as I'm concerned, they could have boarded Destiny since Air, Part 3 (possibly even before the Tau'ri set foot on Destiny). So, why have they decided to claim the ship now?

Whatever happened to Riley and the chair guy? Were they sucked out of the show by the plot hole of doom? Seriously, they could have shown Johansen taking care of them or something. It wouldn't have taken more than 30 seconds.

Also, how were the Tau'ri able to bring the doc to Destiny via LRC device to extract the subspace tracking device from Rush's chest? Aren't the aliens supposed to be hacking the damn thing? Why not have Johansen do it from the beginning?

I'm disappointed. I think things could have been handled a lot better plot-wise.

5/10

[asdf1239]

The evil smurfs' purposes escape me. As far as I'm concerned, they could have boarded Destiny since Air, Part 3 (possibly even before the Tau'ri set foot on Destiny). So, why have they decided to claim the ship now?

maybe they were in a rush to notify the other aliens of its reactivation

[EllieVee]

The only civilian that knew about Rush and the Smurfs was Chloe.

maybe they were in a rush to notify the other aliens of its reactivation

In a rush, hahahahahaha.