'Divided' (112) General Discussion

[Coronach]

It's a refreshing change from "the military is always right and perfect" that we generally saw in the other shows.

I agree. Though some of my favorite characters on the show are military, it's really a refreshing (albeit, mildly disturbing) view of them acting in the way they did to the civilians in this particular instance.

[s09119]

I agree. Though some of my favorite characters on the show are military, it's really a refreshing (albeit, mildly disturbing) view of them acting in the way they did to the civilians in this particular instance.

This is far more realistic than the other shows, though. Soldiers don't disobey orders just because they have the moral high ground or something, they do what they're told, just like the soldiers did when it came to taking back the ship. I think it was very effective, though. Even if you agreed with the military, everything they did to respond to the mutiny only legitimized the civilians' actions.

[Coronach]

This is far more realistic than the other shows, though. Soldiers don't disobey orders just because they have the moral high ground or something, they do what they're told, just like the soldiers did when it came to taking back the ship.

Well, it's not always this way even in SGU. Remember Scott refusing Young's order to help him get to the shuttle so he could be the one to sacrifice himself? Technically, he disobeyed an order there.

I agree, though, that what the military did is certainly realistic and none of it is all that surprising. As I said though, some of it is mildly disturbing (at least for me) regardless of the realism. And none of that means I didn't like the plot or the episode, as I loved it.

I think it was very effective, though. Even if you agreed with the military, everything they did to respond to the mutiny only legitimized the civilians' actions.

Yes, definitely.

[The_Asgard_live]

It's a refreshing change from "the military is always right and perfect" that we generally saw in the other shows.

I obviously don't see it that way.

One commit suicide.
One bashes civilians and threatens to shoot them in the face.
One breaks regs and treats the soldier he did it with like crap.
There is more, but, to top it off, all lead by an attempted murderer.

Refreshing isn't the word I would use. Besides, I always kind of thought that SG1/SGA showing the military some love is the refreshing portrayal. See Avatar for the most recent example of why.

[Gollumpus]

In general I liked this episode. There were several problems brewing and it was only a question of when it was going to blow up. This being said...

What the heck were the civilians hoping to accomplish by taking the ship? They had no realistic objectives which could last longer than the time it took for Young (ie. the military) to squash them. Rush had objectives (1. kill Young, Scott's a bonus; 2. take over control of the ship; 3. have everyone dance around at my command while I use Wray as a buffer between me and the rest of the little people). Wray had an objective (1. I wanna' be Madam President).

The rest of the civilian crew... (an ongoing refrain of "Show me the way to go home.")

There should have been some screen time (over various previous episodes) devoted to the discussions of what Rush/Wray were going to achieve by the take-over. I would have liked to have seen the spin-doctoring by Rush and Wray to bring people on side. All we did see were several scenes of discontented civilians and nothing of organization or hard objectives.

Civilian Objectives:

1.) Disarming the military - Yes, they would disarm the military. And then what? How do they get the weapons back the very first time that the military is needed to defend the ship?

2.) Leadership - Would they really want Rush to decide the big questions for them? He certainly wouldn't want to be bothered with all the little questions. What sort of military experience does he have? The shield decision in this episode was a science question based upon info known only to Rush, it was not a military decision. The military, with or without Young, would not trust Rush and would view any orders he gave with extreme suspicion ("I'm willing to die in the course of my duty, but my duty does not include me doing something risky so Rush can get an answer to a question"). And worse, what sort of interpersonal skills does he have? The only person who likes Rush is..., well I'm not sure even Rush likes Rush. Further, when it became known how he killed Young and Scott (and that is how it would be viewed) all his support would evaporate. There's also a likelihood he would find himself on the pointy end of someone's knife. At best, he could hope to be the guy behind the throne whispering in the ear of the queen.

And speaking of Wray, what authority does she have other than being the leading member of the IOA on the mission (ie. the only member), and not a particularly significant one at that? I do like the character and the actor, and I hope she is around for a long time, however, Wray is not qualified to decide science or military questions, and she certainly would not be viewed as such by the rest of the science types. She wants to be in charge, AND THEN DO WHAT with the power? Is Rush going to be any more malleable because she's calling the shots? Perhaps, until he decided to buck her authority. Would any of the other scientists recognize her authority beyond the first time she "no" to something they wanted? Would the military snap to and salute every time she entered the room? How would she enforce her decisions on them? If Rush or any other scientist decided not to play ball does she go against her "allies" and call in the military? And if the military decided not to obey her orders on some military related issue, then where are they?

Government - there was a call for a civilian government on Destiny with the military being subservient to the will of that civilian government. Question: when did Destiny become a separate political body from any Earth control, and why would anyone think that the military would feel obliged to support such a government? And if they are freeing themselves of military control why stop there? Bonus question - Why not stop listening to the IOA as well?

They were a military expedition on Icarus with Wray as the IOA rep, however she was no Weir or Woolsey with regard to her ability and what kind of power she wielded on that base. How was this "government" going to be formed? Were they going to have elections? Who would oversee these elections? Would Chloe put her Pol-Sci degree to some kind of use? Would the military guys actually be allowed to run candidates or even get a vote? Assuming these questions were answered, what if someone other than Wray or Rush actually won said election? How would that sit with these two power brokers?


How I see this ending up is with Wray becoming a figurehead leader supported by Young, let's call it a shogunate. Young uses Wray to mollify the civilians and deal with the "HR" issues which allows him more time to darn his socks. Rush will be on the outside trying to use Wray (or anyone else) to get what he wants.

Destiny continues.

regards,
G.

[Alx]

Wohoo i liked an ep for once im so happy

[s09119]

I obviously don't see it that way.

One commit suicide.
One bashes civilians and threatens to shoot them in the face.
One breaks regs and treats the soldier he did it with like crap.
There is more, but, to top it off, all lead by an attempted murderer.

Refreshing isn't the word I would use. Besides, I always kind of thought that SG1/SGA showing the military some love is the refreshing portrayal. See Avatar for the most recent example of why.

I didn't say I think the military should always be portrayed as such or anything. , but all of those things happen in the reality all the time. The military on the other shows never broke this superhuman code of nobility, or if they did, they were just bad people or in league with the mean politicians, so they didn't count.

And Avatar had nothing to do with the military. They were corporate mercenaries, a Blackwater in space.

[Commander Zelix]

Here's my review. I think the episode was mildly entertaining and had a good pace. It didn't bore me like some episode in the first half. It was not better than Air, Time, Space. And it was slightly better than Justice.

Its a bit strange since we're supposed to have been given 11 episodes build up to the civilian/military conflicts. But after viewing the episode I still think the justification for it to be somewhat flimsy and uninteresting. There's no strong moral dilemma or philosophical differences that separates the 2 groups. At least nothing for us viewers to pounder.

I did like how Young took back the ship (except that I don't understand how the shield works, if it does work). Simple but effective. Greer got me chuckling in the hallway scene after he knocked down 2 civilians guards.

Some dialogue were good but not intense as it should be in such situation. It was a pretty low key mutiny episode, imo. Even drama wise.

After such a great episode like Space, this episode got me sitting on the fence again. But at least this time its not because it was too slow or too boring. It had a good pacing. I just wasn't involve intellectually. There was nothing to sink my teeth in. Maybe its because I don't care about who likes who or who hates who among TV characters. At the end I almost felt like nothing really happened.

Entertaining, good pace, fun, average plot. 6.5/10

[The_Asgard_live]

I didn't say I think the military should always be portrayed as such or anything. , but all of those things happen in the reality all the time.

Yep, but, take what is supposed to be an honorable service (its drilled into you) a small non-random sample size, (an elite group of military in an ultra secret stargate program) and you're left with the military on the crew of Destiny? I don't think so.

The military on the other shows never broke this superhuman code of nobility, or if they did, they were just bad people or in league with the mean politicians, so they didn't count.

Yes, it was military friendly.

And Avatar had nothing to do with the military. They were corporate mercenaries, a Blackwater in space.

This I have to call for a 3rd impartial fan of the movie to settle because I am not sure of myself here. I know they wore fatigues, and I believe they had ranks, like colonel? So I can state that to say it had nothing to do with military is incorrect. Whether they were mercs or official military, a bigger fan than I has to weigh in on that. Honestly don't know. But does it matter, they appear to the people watching the movie as military.

[Commander Zelix]

This I have to call for a 3rd impartial fan of the movie to settle because I am not sure of myself here. I know they wore fatigues, and I believe they had ranks, like colonel? So I can state that to say it had nothing to do with military is incorrect. Whether they were mercs or official military, a bigger fan than I has to weigh in on that. Honestly don't know. But does it matter, they appear to the people watching the movie as military.

From what I remember. I thought there were ex-military hired by the corporation to set up a paramilitary groups. A bit like those security agency in Iraq. They keep the same military structure as the official army, are well armed, but are not part of the government army.

[Lahela]

Wow! This is now one of my favourite episodes.

Loved Chloe,
felt both sorry for and angry at Eli and TJ,
hated James and Greer,
was frustrated at Wray's bureaucratic way of running a mutiny,
appreciated seeing Rush's honest fear of Young,
and felt entirely justified in my opinion that Young is not the person to lead.

[g.o.d]

I love this episode, more than Space. I like character driven episodes more than anything. And I'm glad SGU is portraying all the characters as flawed people, no matter if they're military or civilian

[Briangate78]

Well just watched the episode very tired now, it is 2:15am here. It was a very good episode. Will likely make my top 5 for the first season. I am starting to really root for these characters. It seems Rush is developing quite nicely and poor Eli is thrown in the middle of everything. Rush was afraid Young would airlock him because of the tracking device. Instead he got a surgical team together to save his life. These characters still have trust issues, and well from what I heard is happening in the end of the season, they need to act as one and become a happy familt. Too bad they don't have a person like Dr. Weir or Richard Woolsey. At least with Atlantis, you had a civillian in control and then a commander for the military to make those military calls. The military is controlled and takes orders from a civillian government and has checks and balances. I think they need to set up a sorta of Atlantis kinda leadership. Remember Atlantis was cut off from Earth completely. So they had to survive with no communication whatsoever. I can see someone from earth coming in to check up on the Destiny.

Should be interesting how all this happens. I think from now, no one is going to try and hurt or kill anyone. I think events will happen that will put more trust in eachother.

Chloe scored some points for me. Scott just gets more on my nerves everyweek. He just does not think.

[Gollumpus]

and felt entirely justified in my opinion that Young is not the person to lead.

So the obvious question is, if not Young then who? It can't be anyone else in the military unless Young were to chose to step down (which he wouldn't do). Wray has no qualifications to lead a mission of this type. Rush has his own agenda and has shown himself to be untrustworthy several times and quite willing to manipulate people to do things not in their own best interest.

regards,
G.

[Col.Foley]

So the obvious question is, if not Young then who? It can't be anyone else in the military unless Young were to chose to step down (which he wouldn't do). Wray has no qualifications to lead a mission of this type. Rush has his own agenda and has shown himself to be untrustworthy several times and quite willing to manipulate people to do things not in their own best interest.

regards,
G.

Young is the only one to lead given their situation.