Why is the IOA still allowed to exist?

[s09119]

Actually, for the most part...yeah, it is. And an insult to the military(suggesting they are inherently untrustworthy).

The military is inherently untrustworthy. Look around the world; there's a heck of a lot more coups being led by armed forces than by political parties. And what, would you prefer to let the military do whatever they please, whenever they please, with no one able to tell them "No"?

[thekillman]

the ioa is rooted so deep into the programme now, i doubt the USAF has much left to say.

IOA is much bigger and together could scrape a lot more money on a heap than the USAF ever could.

besides, kickjing out the IOA is a bad idea politics-wise.

i think the IOA is much better nowadays that it has been. early IOA and atlantean IOA were a big pain in the ass. SGU IOA has grown to become much more useful, especially since woolsey took over atlantis, now they finally have "workfloor" experience on the matter. with people like O'neill and doubtlessly ex-SGC personell, the IOA has become much more aware of the SGC circumstances

[Flyboy]

Actually, for the most part...yeah, it is. And an insult to the military(suggesting they are inherently untrustworthy).

As someone IN the military, no. It's not an insult.

Key Clausewitzian concept. War is a continuation of politics by other means. The military exists for no other reason than to be a tool of politics, and to be used accordingly.

It is no insult for a soldier/airman/marine/sailor to recognise that he is merely a part of what is simply a tool in order to further the policies of his state. It is important that military victories are not achieved simply for victory's sake, but in order to further towards strategic success, and thus further towards the completion of the political objective. Force should never be used for forces sake, but must be used with utility.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Actually, for the most part...yeah, it is. And an insult to the military(suggesting they are inherently untrustworthy).

We in the military have to recognise that we are tools of the state. We can’t make political decisions, that’s not our right, that must be left to civilian leaders. If the military is allowed to make political decisions then you have nothing more than a military dictatorship and that’s not something I or many others signed up to protect.

[Laxian of Earth]

I mean, seriously... they aren't exactly needed anymore. The fact that they are still allowed to order the SG personnel around is laughable. There are several reasons why they aren't needed anymore:

• Atlantis is on Earth (As far as we know)
• No big bad (Goa'uld, Ori, etc) = no need for extra funding
• The annoyance they cause to the Air Force

At this point the U.S. Government could cut off the rest of the world from participation in the Stargate program, kick all international personnel out of Atlantis, and tell the IOA bureaucrats to take a hike and there's really nothing they could do about it. I'm not advicating U.S. only participation in the Stargate program, but the IOA model doesn't work and something else would need to be negotiated, especially since none of the other countries have any significant leverage.

The point is that there is no logical reason the IOA should not be allowed to exist any longer. They seem to only be around as a point of contention at this point anyway. They should be done away with. Soon.

agreed, something new should be negotiated (even more as civilians don't cut it out there in the galaxy (they would get slaughtered...)):

they should form a "military IOA" (meaning everyone sitting on the IOA should at least be a colonel (or better: general) in the armed forces of his respective country. there still would be bickering and people sticking up mostly for their own country, but there would be no more throwing stones in the well working machine every military is!

greetings LAX

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

but there would be no more throwing stones in the well working machine every military is!

greetings LAX

You clearly have no idea how the military works then, like any large organisation the military is prone to screw-up’s on a massive level. There’s a reason my unit used “hurry up and wait” as our unofficial motto.

[Flyboy]

agreed, something new should be negotiated (even more as civilians don't cut it out there in the galaxy (they would get slaughtered...)):

What... like Daniel Jackson?

What exactly don't you get? A soldier's place is in the battefield, a politicians place is not. You think that US or British politicians wouldn't get slaughtered out in Afghanistan? Why does the fact the IOA can't hack combat environments out in the galaxy mean they should be disbanded if our real world politicians shouldn't for similar reasons?

they should form a "military IOA" (meaning everyone sitting on the IOA should at least be a colonel (or better: general) in the armed forces of his respective country. there still would be bickering and people sticking up mostly for their own country, but there would be no more throwing stones in the well working machine every military is!

greetings LAX

That is possibly the worst idea I have ever heard. Whilst I think a united military command akin to NATO, in which various positions are held by various nationalities would be good, the oversight MUST remain civilian. Read Clausewitz for Christ's sake and get to grips with the concept of the Trinity of War. The People, The Government and the Military. All three are integral to warfare and the running of states, and each have their own specific roles. Remove one and the whole house of cards collapses. The military should NEVER decide on policy, as they would be fighting for a military victory, which never or rarely automatically translates into a political victory - which in this case does not mean the same as a domestic political victory, but achieving aims that will allow your end result (for example, the democratisation of Afghanistan). Military force will only allow these conditions to be attainable, it does not attain them directly.

As I've said a thousand times in this thread - the military is a TOOL of the state, and the state must always remain civilian. Any 'military IOA' should ONLY have juristiction on the tactical & operational level, only an element of involvement on the strategic front, and never on the policy level.

[P-90_177]

Since we have seen personell from a great many nations, including but not limited to Sweden, Zimbabwe, Egypt, Czech Rep, Serbia, Phillipines and Belgium ("seen" as in observed personell with these flags on their uniforms, not necessarily interacted with) on Atlantis, I think it's safe to assume these nations government knows about the stargate program. It's not a stretch to assume they probably have IOA representatives too.

I mean, c'mon if Zimbabwe has a guy on atlantis, then EVERYONE knows! =P

Not neccesarily. Assuming that the Atlantis team was hand picked to be the best rom all over the world then some members of the expedition will probably have been picked without their governments knowledge beyond the idea of "they're coming to work for the U.S government" However in the expedition they are allowed to represent their home nation. Hell given the fact that Carson has a scottish flag rather than a British flag like Grodin then chances are they even get to choose their own flag.

[EllieVee]

then we'd get 'L Etait C'Est Moi AGAIN, meaning the state, thats me!

So we'd get a Hitler AGAIN

I note that Hitler was elected. Not perhaps an election that would pass the stringent muster of the Australian Electoral Commission but that's by the by.

And no props for the Godwining or to me for responding to it.

[Deevil]

they should form a "military IOA" (meaning everyone sitting on the IOA should at least be a colonel (or better: general) in the armed forces of his respective country. there still would be bickering and people sticking up mostly for their own country, but there would be no more throwing stones in the well working machine every military is!

I wanna assume you are being ironic here, I really do... but I fear you're being serious. THe military works at the Whim of the government, a government which many countries is democratically elected it.

Military's are not autonomous, and for that reason alone they should not be placed to make 'diplomatic' solutions. When by definition, the military is there for when diplomatic solutions are all used up.

[knowles2]

This organization has never made any sense. Apparently, the writers need a bad, stupid organization to develop story lines and create situations to write about. (yes I ended that sentence with a preposition) None of the decisions taken by the IOA have ever had any merit. No character from IOA ever made a right choice. They are, in all meaning of the word, worthless. However, without their stupidity and poor management there would have been a lot less story to tell and intense moments created.

They are allowed to exist because the writers need them. Surely they could have come up with something better, but.

Woolsey was IOA, an he made plenty of correct choices.

IOA were the ones which overrule SGC decision to put anubis son back into status. It was the study of Anubis son which lead to the anti prior weapon, which allowed us to cure the plague an to rescue Daniel Jackson an eventually the capture an containment adria. These events lead to the Ori defeat, an they would not of happen if they IOA did not overall the SGC decision to return Anubis some back to that planet.
An let not forget these people kept open the SGC exploration program open, which allowed us to learn of the extent of the Ori threat that Earth faced.

An that just SG1.

The reason the IOA did not have much control over the Atlantis expedition was because they were a new organisation which did not have the political capital or the leverage to gain more control an even then control was split 50/50, US has military an IOA countries had civilian. Now the IOA skill fully built up there control to the level where O'neil has to listen to there advice an where they seemingly control 100% of projects, such as the ninth chevron, an where countries such as China now run there own vessels.
Americans has long since past the point of no return in running the stargate program on there own. An all this happen because of those senators did not want to pay for SGC exploration.

[thekillman]

it happened because of anubis and the arctic superweapon

[AvanGard]

Woolsey was IOA, an he made plenty of correct choices.

Woolsey made correct choices after breaking rules and regulations and not following the IOA, by the book routine. The actor had to reinvent his character for the 5th season of Atlantis.

IOA were the ones which overrule SGC decision to put anubis son back into status. It was the study of Anubis son which lead to the anti prior weapon, which allowed us to cure the plague an to rescue Daniel Jackson an eventually the capture an containment adria. These events lead to the Ori defeat, an they would not of happen if they IOA did not overall the SGC decision to return Anubis some back to that planet.
An let not forget these people kept open the SGC exploration program open, which allowed us to learn of the extent of the Ori threat that Earth faced.

And what would have happened if SG1 didn't manage to stop him(). The coin always has two sides.
The writers just turned a mistake by the IOA into a positive.

If it was up to me I'd put all IOA members in a room filled with wraith and then see how they negotiate their way out of there.

[Wayston]

Without the IOA it would be the US against the whole galaxy, with the IOA it is at least the whole world against the whole galaxy

if it's just the US then it would face a major butter or guns dilemma: those spaceships alone must cost a few trillions in construction cost and upkeep, the US could only use its own highly educated and talented citizens in the stargate programme meaning less talent at their disposal for other means,...

it's just not realistic... in fact it's extremely unrealistic as it is that the world at large is still unaware of the stargate program

[knowles2]

Woolsey made correct choices after breaking rules and regulations and not following the IOA, by the book routine. The actor had to reinvent his character for the 5th season of Atlantis.

I would not talking about that. IOA made the correct decision of placing Woolsey in command of Atlantis. If it was not for there decision he would never of ended up there. An he was actually the best commander the expedition had,.

what would have happened if SG1 didn't manage to stop him(). The coin always has two sides.
The writers just turned a mistake by the IOA into a positive.

They would of had a other enemy out there to fight, but a enemy which we could easily defeat as we would still had the capabilities to construct an developed the weapon able to disable his powers.
Either coin flip the IOA made the right decision.

If he ascended on his own I expect the ancients would of kept him on a tight leash or just return him to the mortal plane as a normal human. Only reason they let Anubis do the imbetween thing was to punish Oma.
That if Adrea an her priors did not take care of him first. If he stayed on earth a nuclear missile would of easily took him out.

An if SG1 got there way they would never of developed the anti prior weapon like we did.
Fact is IOA made the right decision an SG1 an SGC made the wrong one on that occasion.

IOA made some terrible decision but so have SG1 an SGC an the last two probably still way ahead in the making terrible decisions league.