Would you say stargate universe is sci-fi.

[Commander Zelix]

I think the changes from Atlantis to Universe was part of the Syfy execs plan to render the Stargate show (and the syfy network) more accessible to the non-sci-fi crowd. So they ordered a new Stargate with downplayed sci-fi elements.

As David Howe put it Syfy is "driven a strategy to drive new eyeballs to the network, to bring in more younger viewers, more gender balanced set of viewers". The fact they want the network to be more gender balanced also explain why more emphasis is put into relationship with less action. That is even if we consider it counter-productive for their own goal. I know a lot of women will say I love action, mystery, sci-fi and don't like too much relationship stuff. Same thing with younger male viewer which would prefer more action I think (if we take popular hollywood movies as a benchmark). But you must see things in their perspective.

I think the Syfy execs sat down with the Stargate producers and ask them if they could produce a Stargate version with less complicated sci-fi, more straight drama and make it more accessible. Obviously Stargate producers won't say that up front. He will say something like:"We agreed with the network to cancel Atlantis and start Universe. Its a wonderful new challenge.". For syfy execs even the Lost Room was too complicated for the people to understand. Dave Howe said about it:"I think the challenge that we had with Lost Room is it was very difficult as a concept even though we loved it to kind of market it in one sentence or less because it was somewhat, you know, complicated to just explain to everybody there was this kind of, you know, missing room and a missingkey etcetera, etcetera." They have she same attitude toward space shows in general even if they admit they will always be around on their network.

Same thing with Caprica (Why put it in space when its actually almost just a character drama? They must be thinking).

Ultimately I think by dumbing down the sci-fi part it will actually turn against them and their niche market and viewers.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I think the changes from Atlantis to Universe was part of the Syfy execs plan to render the Stargate show (and the syfy network) more accessible to the non-sci-fi crowd. So they ordered a new Stargate with downplayed sci-fi elements.

As David Howe put it Syfy is "driven a strategy to drive new eyeballs to the network, to bring in more younger viewers, more gender balanced set of viewers". The fact they want the network to be more gender balanced also explain why more emphasis is put into relationship with less action. That is even if we consider it counter-productive for their own goal. I know a lot of women will say I love action, mystery, sci-fi and don't like too much relationship stuff. Same thing with younger male viewer which would prefer more action I think (if we take popular hollywood movies as a benchmark). But you must see things in their perspective.

I think the Syfy execs sat down with the Stargate producers and ask them if they could produce a Stargate version with less complicated sci-fi, more straight drama and make it more accessible. Obviously Stargate producers won't say that up front. He will say something like:"We agreed with the network to cancel Atlantis and start Universe. Its a wonderful new challenge.". For syfy execs even the Lost Room was too complicated for the people to understand. Dave Howe said about it:"I think the challenge that we had with Lost Room is it was very difficult as a concept even though we loved it to kind of market it in one sentence or less because it was somewhat, you know, complicated to just explain to everybody there was this kind of, you know, missing room and a missingkey etcetera, etcetera." They have she same attitude toward space shows in general even if they admit they will always be around on their network.

Same thing with Caprica (Why put it in space when its actually almost just a character drama? They must be thinking).

Ultimately I think by dumbing down the sci-fi part it will actually turn against them and their niche market and viewers.

I fail to see how SGU is dumbing down scifi simply because it has less action and explosions, indeed it’s normally the case that it’s the opposite of this, the less explosions the more intelligent the show is. SGU has had episodes like Time which doesn’t spoon feed the audience and forces them to think, rather than Atlantis, which while I enjoyed, relied on explosions, shooting and nonsense techobabble rather than anything intelligent to provide entertainment.

[Commander Zelix]

I fail to see how SGU is dumbing down scifi simply because it has less action and explosions,

Nobody's saying that, but it seem you can't understand it when we explain it to you. Gattaca is sci but doesn't have action in it, but the sci-fi theme is central to the story. Total Recall/Matrix is sci-fi for the same reason, but do involve action. Same with the Outer Limits stories with much of it happening on earth. Sure Universe got some sci-fi in it, but its watered down sci-fi. Its actually a straight drama that happens to be set on a spaceship. As I explained more thoroughly in the other thread, even the stones weren't use for sci-fi drama but for straight drama. Instead of discussing the moral implication of using another person body, or Wray's girlfriend (or Young's wife) having problem accepting Wray's (Young's) identity; Imagine having your husband/girlfriend having sex with you in another person body! It was only a plot device to generate soap opera like drama in a earth settings. At this rhythm Stargate will go Caprica on us and the next series will be called Stargate:Earth Life. Hoping that it can be summarize in one sentence. Life and tribulations of people working on the Stargate program. Syfy execs hoping it can be accessible enough.

[KEK]

*Sigh*

The stones were used for scifi drama, it's just that by the sound of things, if the writers aren't spoon feeding you the moral dilemma via the characters then you can't recognise it. The use of the stones are having a real effect on everyone on that ship, how they interact using them and their feelings on their situation because of them. If you can't see that, maybe you need the show to be dumbing down for you a bit.

[Commander Zelix]

*Sigh*

The stones were used for scifi drama, it's just that by the sound of things, if the writers aren't spoon feeding you the moral dilemma

Get off you high horses and stop cheerleading the Universe show for moment.

The moral dilemma of using the stones was not part of the story AT ALL. I wish they would spoonfed me that one because its much more interesting that the teenage dance club, baby mama and love triangle drama they spoonfed us on "Life" and "Earth". The only thing I agree here is that an episode like "Time" was actually a good episode. A good mix of action, adventure, sci-fi and drama (A bit low on the suspense and mystery tho). Hope there's more like it.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Get off you high horses and stop cheerleading the Universe show for moment.

The moral dilemma of using the stones was not part of the story AT ALL. I wish they would spoonfed me that one because its much more interesting that the teenage dance club, baby mama and love triangle drama they spoonfed us on "Life" and "Earth". The only thing I agree here is that an episode like "Time" was actually a good episode. A good mix of action, adventure, sci-fi and drama (A bit low on the suspense and mystery tho). Hope there's more like it.

Get out of the gutter and stop bashing the show then. SGU is an arc based show, things develop, situations and stories evolve, not everything is neatly put on a plate for you. The abuse of the stones and the developing story lines clearly are leading to a series of moral dilemma’s and hard questions, the difference is that SGU doesn’t neatly lay it out and wrap it up in front of you in one episode, it requires you to follow the show and let stories develop.

[Commander Zelix]

Get out of the gutter and stop bashing the show then. SGU is an arc based show, things develop, situations and stories evolve, not everything is neatly put on a plate for you. The abuse of the stones and the developing story lines clearly are leading to a series of moral dilemma’s and hard questions, the difference is that SGU doesn’t neatly lay it out and wrap it up in front of you in one episode, it requires you to follow the show and let stories develop.

Daytime soaps are also serialized and it doesn't make them great or sci-fi for that matter. Its what the plot is about which is important. Anyway I don't understand why SGUs cheerleaders always need to bash Atlantis and SG1 to prove their point. At least we can agree that more episode like Time would be a good thing. More balanced episodes.

[MattSilver 3k]

Get off you high horses and stop cheerleading Stargate Universe for a moment.

The moral dilemma of using the stones was not part of the story AT ALL. I wish they would spoonfed me that one because its much more interesting that the teenage dance club, baby mama and love triangle drama they spoonfed us on "Life" and "Earth". The only thing I agree here is that an episode like "Time" was actually a good episode. A good mix of action, adventure, sci-fi and drama (A bit low on the suspense and mystery tho). Hope there's more like it.

Thought I'd fix that...

I think the stones' moral implications stuff is interestingly developed. The characters aren't sitting down and talking these things out right off the bat - they're being reckless and going nuts with the stones because the Destiny is stressing them and being home feels better, even if its in another body. The thing about the stones is that they're an arc in itself - a technology arc, much like the Neural Interface Chair or the overarching one about the Destiny.

While the characters are using the stones to go home and do "soap opera" things, the writers are using these snippets as character developing things - yeah, Eli's in love with Chloe, Chloe wants to better herself, Scott has a potential catalyst for change, Young's increasingly getting frustrated and angry (Which I believe culminated in Justice a little).

Note that a lot of the examples above have potential for future stories or character building stuff. But I'm not here to argue about future character arcs and how they may form over time - this is about the Sci-Fi element behind all this: slowly but surely, those stones and the morals behind them will come up, and it has already in subtle and small ways. I bet my internets on that. Young's freaked out look as he switched with Telford, Wray noting the differences in the new body, Scott getting some residual memories from Telford... It's all resulted from the stones, a science fiction device, and has given its viewers and the characters some potential food for thought, that may or may not be digested later on.

In my opinion, thinking only for the present and not thinking ahead on a show like this is detrimental. Thinking for the present and hope for more Time-esque outings will leave you in the cold.

[Commander Zelix]

Thought I'd fix that...

I think the stones' moral implications stuff is interestingly developed. The characters aren't sitting down and talking these things out right off the bat - they're being reckless and going nuts with the stones because the Destiny is stressing them and being home feels better, even if its in another body. The thing about the stones is that they're an arc in itself - a technology arc, much like the Neural Interface Chair or the overarching one about the Destiny.

While the characters are using the stones to go home and do "soap opera" things, the writers are using these snippets as character developing things - yeah, Eli's in love with Chloe, Chloe wants to better herself, Scott has a potential catalyst for change, Young's increasingly getting frustrated and angry (Which I believe culminated in Justice a little).

Note that a lot of the examples above have potential for future stories or character building stuff. But I'm not here to argue about future character arcs and how they may form over time - this is about the Sci-Fi element behind all this: slowly but surely, those stones and the morals behind them will come up, and it has already in subtle and small ways. I bet my internets on that. Young's freaked out look as he switched with Telford, Wray noting the differences in the new body, Scott getting some residual memories from Telford... It's all resulted from the stones, a science fiction device, and has given its viewers and the characters some potential food for thought, that may or may not be digested later on.

In my opinion, thinking only for the present and not thinking ahead on a show like this is detrimental. Thinking for the present and hope for more Time-esque outings will leave you in the cold.

It doesn't change the fact that the stones are only used to provide cheap soap opera drama on earth. The moral implication is evident the moment your husband or girlfriend want to make love or sleep with you in another person's body. Same as another person using your body to do that, fight or get drunk in a bar. It should have been discussed right away because its what logical and more realistic. I don't know about you, but I don't want to catch aids or get pregnant in another person body (among other thing). A sci-fi stones arc would have started there and evolve from there. Not provide us 2 snoozefest episodes to create cheap soap opera drama. Which I think are only there to please Syfy execs, btw.

[KEK]

Get off you high horses

Do you actually read your own posts?

The moral dilemma of using the stones was not part of the story AT ALL. I wish they would spoonfed me that one

Thus confirming my prior statements. Just because you miss something, doesn't mean it isn't there, maybe if it was a bit more heavy handed or dumbed down you'd have noticed it. The moral dilemma was Telford's and Young's use of the stones, their abuses, and the subsequent confrontation. It was explored that way, assuming the audience had enough intelligence to understand what was going on without having a 5 minute exposition-fest.

The only thing I agree here is that an episode like "Time" was actually a good episode. A good mix of action, adventure, sci-fi and drama (A bit low on the suspense and mystery tho). Hope there's more like it.

Time was well-made and enjoyable I agree, but it was basically just another generic scifi plot repackaged.

[Commander Zelix]

Do you actually read your own posts?



Thus confirming my prior statements. Just because you miss something, doesn't mean it isn't there, maybe if it was a bit more heavy handed or dumbed down you'd have noticed it. The moral dilemma was Telford's and Young's use of the stones, their abuses, and the subsequent confrontation. It was explored that way, assuming the audience had enough intelligence to understand what was going on without having a 5 minute exposition-fest.

Instead we had a 30 minute exposition-fest of teenage club drama, wray missing her gf, loves triangles, and baby mama storylines. The sci-fi part and moral dilemma have been put aside for such original and intelligent storyline that we can see in any daytime soap or teen drama. Not all episodes are as bad, Time, Justice were much better (well pretty much all the other episode like Air, or Light). But I've got to call a cat a cat when I see it. I cant wear my blindfold because the show got the Stargate name on it. I think Universe may gets better with time. It wouldn't be the first Sci-fi show to have an average first season (or first half) and then get better as the series move on, as it find a proper balance and its footing.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Daytime soaps are also serialized and it doesn't make them great or sci-fi for that matter. Its what the plot is about which is important. Anyway I don't understand why SGUs cheerleaders always need to bash Atlantis and SG1 to prove their point. At least we can agree that more episode like Time would be a good thing. More balanced episodes.

Where’s the bashing of SG1 or SGA in my post? Quote it, go on where is it, oh that’s right its not there, because I never have bashed SG1 or SGA.

[KEK]

Instead we had a 30 minute exposition-fest of teenage club drama, wray missing her gf, loves triangles, and baby mama storylines.

That sentence doesn't make any sense. I take it you don't know what exposition actually is.

The sci-fi part and moral dilemma have been put aside for such original and intelligent storyline that we can see in any daytime soap or teen drama.

To my knowledge there are no soap operas out there that follow the various characters arcs of people stuck on a space ship using aliens devices to take control of others people's bodies back on Earth. You can bleat that the stones have given us a soap opera until you're blue in the face, but it won't make the assertion any less ridiculous. The effect this situation has on the characters can't be replicated in a soap opera, the sorts of implications the stones are having on the characters is what science fiction is all about.

[PG15]

It doesn't change the fact that the stones are only used to provide cheap soap opera drama on earth.

Well, it's a matter of opinion if it's a "cheap soap opera drama", but this "only used" business is premature at best. As we've kept telling you, SGU is serialized, and thus issues slowly develop over several episodes.

I.e. in Earth the stones caused such a ruckus that their usage became more restricted; in Life, Scott got some stone memory-relapse. Furthermore, Young's usage of the stones brought Telford into his personal life, which just made matters muchos worse.

Let's see what the 2nd half of the show bringings in terms of the stones.

The moral implication is evident the moment your husband or girlfriend want to make love or sleep with you in another person's body. Same as another person using your body to do that, fight or get drunk in a bar. It should have been discussed right away because its what logical

And humans were logical since when?

and more realistic.

Since this is a completely scifi concept, we have no way to judge whether their reactions are realisic or not.

Yes, they are sleeping with their partners while the latter is in someone else's body, but the context is that they've been gone for weeks now; would a different body really stand in the way of being together again after all that time apart? Only Emily and Sharon know. Just because you'd react differently (which you can't know for sure; none of us can) doesn't mean everyone will.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to catch aids or get pregnant in another person body (among other thing).

Well, considering that all the "Earth bodies" have belonged to those in the military, I doubt HIV or any other STDs are a concern; unless the military is more lax on recruitment than I thought.

As for pregnancies: contraceptives. However, let's not pretend that everyone always thinks of these things when they give in to their passions.

[Commander Zelix]

Where’s the bashing of SG1 or SGA in my post? Quote it, go on where is it, oh that’s right its not there, because I never have bashed SG1 or SGA.

Calm down buddy, I'll never call you an elephant thats for sure.

My point is clear, Universe, which while I enjoy, relies on teen drama, character melodrama and nonsense soap opera storylines rather than anything intelligent to provide entertainment.

Don't you remember somebody posting something like this? (which incidentally is not really my opinion on the whole Universe show)

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....&postcount=752

But thats PM material or forget it material. Way off topic. It would have been more interesting I think, well to some degree, if you also answered to my other part of my post you quoted.