Originally posted by lordofseas
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Originally posted by Vyse99 View PostI said it multiple times its a combination of the two factors not purely canceling the show, but saying the new show will be different too. I'm not explaining it again.
Have you also considered there are people who like the other Stargate shows simply because they are not ship based and maybe some people are thinking the new show will be like BSG(since its character based) and they don't like BSG?
I understand that people may resent SGU because of SGA's cancellation, but to try and convince themselves that because of that the show will be crap is a bit pathetic, quite frankly.
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Originally posted by jenks View PostYou haven't explained it at all. The quality of SGU, and the resentment people may feel about the cancellation of SGA are unrelated, whether it's a combination of that and something else or not.
I understand that people may resent SGU because of SGA's cancellation, but to try and convince themselves that because of that the show will be crap is a bit pathetic, quite frankly.
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Originally posted by Vyse99 View PostI explained it very well, if you have a problem understanding what I said that's not my fault.
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Originally posted by jenks View PostYou never. You explained why the cancellation of SGA might make people resent SGU, but you didn't explain why that resentment would make someone think the show is going to be crap. Unless you're suggesting that resentment alone could make people think the show would be crap, which wouldn't surprise me, the Stargate fandom are generally quite childish in that respect.
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Originally posted by jenks View PostYou never. You explained why the cancellation of SGA might make people resent SGU, but you didn't explain why that resentment would make someone think the show is going to be crap. Unless you're suggesting that resentment alone could make people think the show would be crap, which wouldn't surprise me, the Stargate fandom are generally quite childish in that respect.
Semi-ridiculous example:
If my new step-mother (who I resent cause she took my mom's place) makes a batch of cookies, even if they taste great to everyone else in the room, I will be inclined to think they are crappy cookies. It will be harder for me to like them than if my mom had baked them. I will find faults that no one else even thinks about.
I don't think it's necessarily reasonable, but it is reality. Some people are more forgiving than others, and years later, after we have worked out our issues, I'll probably think they are yummy!sigpic
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Originally posted by Vyse99 View PostI never said anything about the show being crap, ever.
I said it might not appeal to people who liked the older Stargate shows because of the formula change which would cause people to be pessimistic.
On the same token though I do think its childish to say a show is going to be awesome before watching it while at the same time bashing people for thinking it might not appeal to them.
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Originally posted by jenks View PostI never said you did, I asked a question about why SGA's cancellation would make someone think it was, and you replied with 'it's not just that...'.
Yes, but you used the cancellation of SGA as reasoning for that, and that's why I questioned it.
Good job no one's doing that then.
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Originally posted by major davis View PostOr maybe the coin will land on tails.
Originally posted by Lahela View PostBrian, I do worry about your negativity*huggles*
I voted for 5 just because I like odd numbers. *shrugs* We don't know, we don't make the decisions, and we aren't in charge of the economy.sigpic
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I voted that it would last 2 years because I think that is at least the minimum number of years SGU will have.
I think after two years the show may have a shot at a third season, it depends on how well it does and how much MGM and SciFi are willing to pay – or not pay.
I think for SGU to go past 3 years it has a high mountain to climb. SGA was cancelled while, according to TPTB, it was still doing well and the ratings, while not as good as year 1, were higher in season 5 than in seasons 3 or 4 and key demo groups were increasing. So I think the expectations for SGU may be quite high – it will likely need much better demos, higher ratings and produce more revenue than SGA. So while I think they may be able to do that for 2-3 years, I think after that it will be difficult to achieve.
In general I think it is difficult for shows to achieve longevity today; especially given today’s economic climate, TV viewer’s fickle viewing habits, that SciFi is not known for keeping their shows on for too long and the fact that most serialized, arc driven, scripted shows have struggled (Hero’s, Pushing Daisy’s, Jericho, Dollhouse). It seems over the past few years these types of shows do very well for the first season or two then loose viewers quickly. In addition, shows that are darker and more serialized do not do as well in syndication so this may also affect SGU’s overall revenue producing ability. I think the simple fact that SGU will be darker, more serialized and arc driven will make it very difficult to achieve the longevity of SG-1 or SGA.
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Originally posted by Vyse99 View PostNo, its not. Considering JM had most of season 6 of Atlantis layed out, he wanted to do another season but Sci-Fi/MGM/whoever else wanted something that would make more money. They also haven't done the same thing for 15 years, SG-1 was mostly about aliens posing as old earth religious figures, Atlantis was exploring the Pegasus galaxy and learning a lot more about the ancients.
Also if that was the case they could have run Universe and Atlantis side by side for a season.
Also, SGU was in the concept stage for almost two years before Atlantis was cancelled.
A franchise has to take new risks if it is going to survive - just look at the new Star Trek movie and how well that has been doing. If people want more of the same, that's fine. Go watch your DVD sets and relive all those great moments. There's 15 seasons worth of that stuff now.
It's not all about the money (it's going to be an expensive show - 'SyFy' is throwing quite a bit of money at it). It's about taking the franchise in a new creative direction. Whether it actually works or not... we'll see.Last edited by Descent; 29 May 2009, 07:55 PM.sigpic
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
DS9 Superior|Farscape|Legend of the Seeker|Stargate Universe|STAR WARS
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Originally posted by Descent View PostIt was the same basic formula for both shows: Go through the gate/on a ship, get into trouble, get out. I bet plenty of people started watching Atlantis and said "This is too much like SG-1" and stopped.
Also, SGU was in the concept stage for almost two years before Atlantis was cancelled.
A franchise has to take new risks if it is going to survive - just look at the new Star Trek movie and how well that has been doing. If people want more of the same, that's fine. Go watch your DVD sets and relive all those great moments. There's 15 seasons worth of that stuff now.
It's not all about the money (it's going to be an expensive show - 'SyFy' is throwing quite a bit of money at it). It's about taking the franchise in a new creative direction. Whether it actually works or not... we'll see.
And yes its purely about the money, TPTP have made it very clear that Universe targets a different, larger demographic then the other Stargate shows. Sci-Fi/MGM wanted Universe over Atlantis because they thought it would give them more money. The reason Sci-Fi is throwing money into it is because they think they will get even more money back, its how the business works.
Also think of this, why did Enterprise do so bad? I think in part was because they decided to do something different and make a prequel instead of a sequel. It was set in the past of Star Trek instead of progressively in the future like previous Star Trek series. Sure change can help a franchise as evidenced by the Star Trek reboot, but it can also hurt. My point is, that if something isn't broken yet don't bother fixing it, when somethings breaks then fix it.Last edited by Vyse99; 29 May 2009, 08:28 PM.
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Originally posted by Vyse99 View PostStar Trek was around for over 40 years, Stargate's been around for about 15, that comparison really doesn't work. Also Star Trek was in MUCH worse condition then Stargate was, Enterprise was a complete disaster and killed the franchise.
Sure I agree Stargate would have eventually needed some fresh ideas, but they should have let Atlantis run its course before changing things up.
And yes its purely about the money, TPTP have made it very clear that Universe targets a different, larger demographic then the other Stargate shows. Sci-Fi/MGM wanted Universe over Atlantis because they thought it would give them more money. The reason Sci-Fi is throwing money into it is because they think they will get even more money back, its how the business works.
Also think of this, why did Enterprise do so bad? I think in part was because they decided to do something different and make a prequel instead of a squeal.sigpic
"Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence."
DS9 Superior|Farscape|Legend of the Seeker|Stargate Universe|STAR WARS
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Originally posted by Vyse99 View PostStar Trek was around for over 40 years, Stargate's been around for about 15, that comparison really doesn't work.
Stargate is not that far off. 15 vs. 18.
Also Star Trek was in MUCH worse condition then Stargate was, Enterprise was a complete disaster and killed the franchise. Sure I agree Stargate would have eventually needed some fresh ideas, but they should have let Atlantis run its course before changing things up.
And yes its purely about the money, TPTP have made it very clear that Universe targets a different, larger demographic then the other Stargate shows. Sci-Fi/MGM wanted Universe over Atlantis because they thought it would give them more money. The reason Sci-Fi is throwing money into it is because they think they will get even more money back, its how the business works.
Also think of this, why did Enterprise do so bad? I think in part was because they decided to do something different and make a prequel instead of a sequel. It was set in the past of Star Trek instead of progressively in the future like previous Star Trek series. Sure change can help a franchise as evidenced by the Star Trek reboot, but it can also hurt. My point is, that if something isn't broken yet don't bother fixing it, when somethings breaks then fix it.
Frankly, I loved the later seasons of that series.
Since you said that it's purely about the money, something must've been broken for them to cancel Atlantis, so as to fix it, as it were; simple logic. An Atlantis movie + SGU must've been more cost-effect than an Atlantis season or even an Atlantis season + SGU.
We just don't know enough.
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Star Trek had been over the airwaves for almost 20 years before TNG came out and then continued for about 17 before the franchise was killed. It works just fine. Voyager ended up being 'more of the same' and when Enterprise attempted to do 'more of the same', the franchise was killed. See where I'm going with this? Atlantis was in some ways 'more of the same'. To do that again would be mean death for the franchise.
So one or two more seasons of doing business as usual and THEN you're allowed to change things up. Riiight.
The DVD movies are making quite a lot of money. You'll be watching/buying the Atlantis movie, right? Yes, money plays a factor in just about anything, doesn't mean that's the reason why the creative team is doing what they're doing.
Here's a link if you want to read up on what was being planned for season 6 http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...n-au-season-6/
No. It did poorly because fans were promised something fresh and new but were instead given something that felt like a rehash.
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