How many seasons do you think it will have?

[Vyse99]

Stuck on ship....hmm....leadership problems.......hmm.....if only we had a cloning machine, a sarcophagus, and a cult, and we'll have BSG dejavu.

Oh but the ancients had that healing device they found in South America, they could find one of those on the Destiny =P

[jenks]

I said it multiple times its a combination of the two factors not purely canceling the show, but saying the new show will be different too. I'm not explaining it again.

You haven't explained it at all. The quality of SGU, and the resentment people may feel about the cancellation of SGA are unrelated, whether it's a combination of that and something else or not.

Have you also considered there are people who like the other Stargate shows simply because they are not ship based and maybe some people are thinking the new show will be like BSG(since its character based) and they don't like BSG?

Of course, there are probably a multitude of reasons why someone may think SGU will be crap, but the cancellation of SGA isn't one of them, well at least it shouldn't be to any reasonable person.

I understand that people may resent SGU because of SGA's cancellation, but to try and convince themselves that because of that the show will be crap is a bit pathetic, quite frankly.

[Vyse99]

You haven't explained it at all. The quality of SGU, and the resentment people may feel about the cancellation of SGA are unrelated, whether it's a combination of that and something else or not.

I explained it very well, if you have a problem understanding what I said that's not my fault.

I understand that people may resent SGU because of SGA's cancellation, but to try and convince themselves that because of that the show will be crap is a bit pathetic, quite frankly.

I agree its wrong for people to convince themselves the show will be crap, however just because a show isn't crappy doesn't mean its gonna appeal to everyone who liked the old Stargate formula. I mean I didn't like BSG, but at the same time I won't say its crap because I can recognize that its a well done show, its just not my thing.

[jenks]

I explained it very well, if you have a problem understanding what I said that's not my fault.

You never. You explained why the cancellation of SGA might make people resent SGU, but you didn't explain why that resentment would make someone think the show is going to be crap. Unless you're suggesting that resentment alone could make people think the show would be crap, which wouldn't surprise me, the Stargate fandom are generally quite childish in that respect.

[Vyse99]

You never. You explained why the cancellation of SGA might make people resent SGU, but you didn't explain why that resentment would make someone think the show is going to be crap. Unless you're suggesting that resentment alone could make people think the show would be crap, which wouldn't surprise me, the Stargate fandom are generally quite childish in that respect.

I never said anything about the show being crap, ever. I said it might not appeal to people who liked the older Stargate shows because of the formula change which would cause people to be pessimistic. In fact I've said now multiple times its too early to say the show is crap. On the same token though I do think its childish to say a show is going to be awesome before watching it while at the same time bashing people for thinking it might not appeal to them.

[Lythisrose]

You never. You explained why the cancellation of SGA might make people resent SGU, but you didn't explain why that resentment would make someone think the show is going to be crap. Unless you're suggesting that resentment alone could make people think the show would be crap, which wouldn't surprise me, the Stargate fandom are generally quite childish in that respect.

Not that I think SGU will be bad, it sounds like it will be a fine show, but I think it is just human nature to find fault with something you resent.
Semi-ridiculous example:
If my new step-mother (who I resent cause she took my mom's place) makes a batch of cookies, even if they taste great to everyone else in the room, I will be inclined to think they are crappy cookies. It will be harder for me to like them than if my mom had baked them. I will find faults that no one else even thinks about.
I don't think it's necessarily reasonable, but it is reality. Some people are more forgiving than others, and years later, after we have worked out our issues, I'll probably think they are yummy!

[jenks]

I never said anything about the show being crap, ever.

I never said you did, I asked a question about why SGA's cancellation would make someone think it was, and you replied with 'it's not just that...'.

I said it might not appeal to people who liked the older Stargate shows because of the formula change which would cause people to be pessimistic.

Yes, but you used the cancellation of SGA as reasoning for that, and that's why I questioned it.

On the same token though I do think its childish to say a show is going to be awesome before watching it while at the same time bashing people for thinking it might not appeal to them.

Good job no one's doing that then.

[Vyse99]

I never said you did, I asked a question about why SGA's cancellation would make someone think it was, and you replied with 'it's not just that...'.



Yes, but you used the cancellation of SGA as reasoning for that, and that's why I questioned it.

Well I'm a bit confused as to why you would be asking me how what I said would justify someone thinking its crap considering I said it was stupid for people to think it was crap at this point. So I thought you were responding to what I was saying about pessimism, but whatever.

Good job no one's doing that then.

I've seen it happen enough.

[Briangate78]

Or maybe the coin will land on tails.

Yeah, saw that video. Thankfully I have gotten over Atlantis, because I would of really verbally ripped apart BW for that joke, if he did that back in the fall, lol.

Brian, I do worry about your negativity *huggles*

I voted for 5 just because I like odd numbers. *shrugs* We don't know, we don't make the decisions, and we aren't in charge of the economy.

Hmm, usually I am very optimistic, but just being realistic here. Been burned too many times by this franchise. Just have to take it one season at a time and not worry about how long it is going to last.

[EdenSG]

I voted that it would last 2 years because I think that is at least the minimum number of years SGU will have.

I think after two years the show may have a shot at a third season, it depends on how well it does and how much MGM and SciFi are willing to pay – or not pay.

I think for SGU to go past 3 years it has a high mountain to climb. SGA was cancelled while, according to TPTB, it was still doing well and the ratings, while not as good as year 1, were higher in season 5 than in seasons 3 or 4 and key demo groups were increasing. So I think the expectations for SGU may be quite high – it will likely need much better demos, higher ratings and produce more revenue than SGA. So while I think they may be able to do that for 2-3 years, I think after that it will be difficult to achieve.

In general I think it is difficult for shows to achieve longevity today; especially given today’s economic climate, TV viewer’s fickle viewing habits, that SciFi is not known for keeping their shows on for too long and the fact that most serialized, arc driven, scripted shows have struggled (Hero’s, Pushing Daisy’s, Jericho, Dollhouse). It seems over the past few years these types of shows do very well for the first season or two then loose viewers quickly. In addition, shows that are darker and more serialized do not do as well in syndication so this may also affect SGU’s overall revenue producing ability. I think the simple fact that SGU will be darker, more serialized and arc driven will make it very difficult to achieve the longevity of SG-1 or SGA.

[Descent]

No, its not. Considering JM had most of season 6 of Atlantis layed out, he wanted to do another season but Sci-Fi/MGM/whoever else wanted something that would make more money. They also haven't done the same thing for 15 years, SG-1 was mostly about aliens posing as old earth religious figures, Atlantis was exploring the Pegasus galaxy and learning a lot more about the ancients.

Also if that was the case they could have run Universe and Atlantis side by side for a season.

It was the same basic formula for both shows: Go through the gate/on a ship, get into trouble, get out. I bet plenty of people started watching Atlantis and said "This is too much like SG-1" and stopped.

Also, SGU was in the concept stage for almost two years before Atlantis was cancelled.

A franchise has to take new risks if it is going to survive - just look at the new Star Trek movie and how well that has been doing. If people want more of the same, that's fine. Go watch your DVD sets and relive all those great moments. There's 15 seasons worth of that stuff now.

It's not all about the money (it's going to be an expensive show - 'SyFy' is throwing quite a bit of money at it). It's about taking the franchise in a new creative direction. Whether it actually works or not... we'll see.

[Vyse99]

It was the same basic formula for both shows: Go through the gate/on a ship, get into trouble, get out. I bet plenty of people started watching Atlantis and said "This is too much like SG-1" and stopped.

Also, SGU was in the concept stage for almost two years before Atlantis was cancelled.

A franchise has to take new risks if it is going to survive - just look at the new Star Trek movie and how well that has been doing. If people want more of the same, that's fine. Go watch your DVD sets and relive all those great moments. There's 15 seasons worth of that stuff now.

It's not all about the money (it's going to be an expensive show - 'SyFy' is throwing quite a bit of money at it). It's about taking the franchise in a new creative direction. Whether it actually works or not... we'll see.

Star Trek was around for over 40 years, Stargate's been around for about 15, that comparison really doesn't work. Also Star Trek was in MUCH worse condition then Stargate was, Enterprise was a complete disaster and killed the franchise. Sure I agree Stargate would have eventually needed some fresh ideas, but they should have let Atlantis run its course before changing things up.

And yes its purely about the money, TPTP have made it very clear that Universe targets a different, larger demographic then the other Stargate shows. Sci-Fi/MGM wanted Universe over Atlantis because they thought it would give them more money. The reason Sci-Fi is throwing money into it is because they think they will get even more money back, its how the business works.

Also think of this, why did Enterprise do so bad? I think in part was because they decided to do something different and make a prequel instead of a sequel. It was set in the past of Star Trek instead of progressively in the future like previous Star Trek series. Sure change can help a franchise as evidenced by the Star Trek reboot, but it can also hurt. My point is, that if something isn't broken yet don't bother fixing it, when somethings breaks then fix it.

[Descent]

Star Trek was around for over 40 years, Stargate's been around for about 15, that comparison really doesn't work. Also Star Trek was in MUCH worse condition then Stargate was, Enterprise was a complete disaster and killed the franchise.

Star Trek had been off the airwaves for almost 20 years before TNG came out and then continued for about 17 before the franchise was killed. It works just fine. Voyager ended up being 'more of the same' and when Enterprise attempted to do 'more of the same', the franchise was killed. See where I'm going with this? Atlantis was in some ways 'more of the same'. To do that again would mean death for the Stargate franchise.

Sure I agree Stargate would have eventually needed some fresh ideas, but they should have let Atlantis run its course before changing things up.

So one or two more seasons of doing buisness as usual and THEN you're allowed to change things up. Riiight.

And yes its purely about the money, TPTP have made it very clear that Universe targets a different, larger demographic then the other Stargate shows. Sci-Fi/MGM wanted Universe over Atlantis because they thought it would give them more money. The reason Sci-Fi is throwing money into it is because they think they will get even more money back, its how the business works.

The DVD movies are making quite a lot of money. You'll be watching/buying the Atlantis movie, right? Yes, money plays a factor in just about anything, doesn't mean that's the reason why the creative team is doing what they're doing.

Also think of this, why did Enterprise do so bad? I think in part was because they decided to do something different and make a prequel instead of a squeal.

No. It did poorly because fans were promised something fresh and new but were instead given something that felt like a rehash.

[PG15]

Star Trek was around for over 40 years, Stargate's been around for about 15, that comparison really doesn't work.

40 years is a deceptive number. The real "golden era" for Star Trek really started in 1987 when TNG started; from there on, there was Star Trek on TV every TV season, until finally after 18 years, a combination of franchise fatigue and creative stagnation killed it. Before then, there was only constant TOS reruns and the movies.

Stargate is not that far off. 15 vs. 18.

Also Star Trek was in MUCH worse condition then Stargate was, Enterprise was a complete disaster and killed the franchise. Sure I agree Stargate would have eventually needed some fresh ideas, but they should have let Atlantis run its course before changing things up.

Sound would say the same thing about the later seasons of SGA, that it was a complete disaster. I don't say it, but there are plenty who do. Who's right?

And yes its purely about the money, TPTP have made it very clear that Universe targets a different, larger demographic then the other Stargate shows. Sci-Fi/MGM wanted Universe over Atlantis because they thought it would give them more money. The reason Sci-Fi is throwing money into it is because they think they will get even more money back, its how the business works.

Are you including Rob Cooper and Brad Wright in TPTB? Because they've said on more than one occasion that they were bored of the old formula and wanted to do more things creatively.

Also think of this, why did Enterprise do so bad? I think in part was because they decided to do something different and make a prequel instead of a sequel. It was set in the past of Star Trek instead of progressively in the future like previous Star Trek series. Sure change can help a franchise as evidenced by the Star Trek reboot, but it can also hurt. My point is, that if something isn't broken yet don't bother fixing it, when somethings breaks then fix it.

Actually, if you look at a ratings chart, Trek's ratings were sliding on a fairly linear scale from about Season 5 or 6 of TNG. Enterprise just caught the tail end where it dropped so low that cancellation was necessary.

Frankly, I loved the later seasons of that series.

Since you said that it's purely about the money, something must've been broken for them to cancel Atlantis, so as to fix it, as it were; simple logic. An Atlantis movie + SGU must've been more cost-effect than an Atlantis season or even an Atlantis season + SGU.

We just don't know enough.

[Vyse99]

Star Trek had been over the airwaves for almost 20 years before TNG came out and then continued for about 17 before the franchise was killed. It works just fine. Voyager ended up being 'more of the same' and when Enterprise attempted to do 'more of the same', the franchise was killed. See where I'm going with this? Atlantis was in some ways 'more of the same'. To do that again would be mean death for the franchise.

Whose saying do that again? I just wanted to see Atlantis finished like SG-1 was at the end of season 8 when Anubis and the replicators were defeated. Enterprise wasn't more of the same for me, it felt like they were trying to do some retro Trek and it went horribly.

So one or two more seasons of doing business as usual and THEN you're allowed to change things up. Riiight.

After they tie up all the loose storylines of Atlantis, sure why not? I dunno about you but I'm not a big fan of unfinished work, especially if the reason for that is greed.

The DVD movies are making quite a lot of money. You'll be watching/buying the Atlantis movie, right? Yes, money plays a factor in just about anything, doesn't mean that's the reason why the creative team is doing what they're doing.

Yes and my point is they want to make even MORE money, you know that's how they work right? The creative team had season 6 roughly outlined already(as I've pointed out like 3? times already), it was Sci-Fi/MGM who wanted to make more money and cancel the show. They saw the potential to make more money out of Universe so they quickly canceled Atlantis and ordered Universe.

Here's a link if you want to read up on what was being planned for season 6 http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...n-au-season-6/

No. It did poorly because fans were promised something fresh and new but were instead given something that felt like a rehash.

Oh Enterprise felt like something fresh and new to me, but that doesn't mean I like it. I'd take Voyager over Enterprise anyday. As I said I didn't want to see retro Trek, I wanted to see them go even further into the future.