Stronghold (914)

[Chaka's_Mum]

Wow - what an interesting episode. A bit more background and angst for Cam, and a bit more explanation of who he is and why.

I did feel sorry for that poor, inoffensive coffee machine, though.

There's been so much discussion about Cam's motive for rushing off to take out the staff cannon that I think all I'm about to do is repeat what others have stated already. But I'm going to do it anyway.

Yes, it was impetuous and (as I've only seen it once, so far - have to wait until Saturday for a repeat viewing) came across at the first impression as almost arrogantly reckless. Maybe Sam would be perfectly justified in tearing a strip off him when they got back.

On the other hand, there are times - at least in TV shows - when an act of impetuosity under fire is the only way to break the stalemate. (that sounds impressive! I like that! ). Ba'al preparing to do a runner in his Funky Space Pyramid was really what threw a spanner into the works and drastically reduced their options - sometimes, no matter how good a plan, the scenario you've planned for changes drastically, and your plan is suddenly no good anymore. If you can't make an 'on the spot' change of plan to counter the changes, then your mission failure rate is going to grab official attention pretty quickly. After all, SG-1 haven't got where they have (or saved the world n-number of times) by sticking rigidly to the mission plan at all costs. Sometimes you just gotta improvise. Cam was in the right position to do a bit of plan changing, so he did. Whether his actions were spiced with angsty elements will always be a matter for debate.

Mind you, I was most impressed with Teal'c's faith in his colleagues. Here he is, pretending to be brainwashed, with Bra'tac in front of him and Ba'al ordering him to fire the staff weapon. How much longer could he have dragged out the 'You are finished, old man and I'm going to off you now' dramatic pause before the Sartorially Impressive One twigged him?

Anyone else would have turned to Cam afterwards and say 'What the $&^$)£**$^ took you so long?????'. Just as well Teal'c is so exquisitely courteous...

[Stricken]

In Stronghold Stargate SG-1 returned to its roots…SG teams killing Jaffa. We had 8 years of it and it’s been something that for me has been sorely missed in Season 9. Stronghold was a Jaffa Politics episode so Peter Deluise will be happy…he loves them. It was about time that we got Bra’tac in an episode for more than five minutes, and he really came into his own, what with his friends being brainwashed and he trying to save their souls.

So the essence of the episode was Jaffa being brainwashed so the Baal and his merry men, the Goa’ulds, could be the leaders of the Jaffa, telling them that he will defend them against the might of the Ori. You have to believe Baal in his plea to Teal’c, if only because his voice changed from Goa’uld to normal. He wanted to protect the Jaffa from the Ori, he didn’t care about the way they led their daily lives, just so long as he was in control of them when the Ori invaded.

Recently Ben has been given a chance to really get to grips with Cameron, and in this episode he had to admit to, perhaps to a stranger, that his friend was a better pilot than him, which makes you think that if Ferguson hadn’t been incapacitated he would have been flying over Antarctica two years ago and then most likely been given a position on a SG team. Cam used his position to help his friend to get him in to the best hospital in the world, one of which uses technologies not currently available to others, most likely Goa’uld but we will never know. Mitchell did the right thing in my book by using the technology they got from “Collateral Damage” to allow Ferguson to see what Mitchell had been up to over the past year or so.

The fact that Bra’tac was unable to trust other Jaffa is a real means for concern, as normally he can find at least one Jaffa who will help. And with Teal’c the strongest warrior in all the Jaffa lands being captured should concern everyone. We finally see the Memory Recall Device again the little piece of technology that caused so many problems several years ago resurfacing again in times of trouble.

The rescue was daring, to say the least and Landry’s line “Teal’c is family…And no one screws with family” which shows us that Landry is starting to become on of the SG family and rallied the troops just like Hammond would have done, like he did when SG-1 was captured several years ago. When on the planet, Mitchell was a man on a mission, he intended on killing the Jaffa, freeing Teal’c and getting home as quickly as possible to get back to his friend. He killed several Jaffa and let rip on the guy on the gun tower, he won’t be worshipping Baal any time soon. Something which got me was that when Bra’tac went down in the Alkesh, no one radioed him to check on him, unless it was cut for time, but it was cleared up when he was bought before Teal’c and Baal.

Just when you think that Teal’c could have turned against everything that he had believed in…again, but then Mitchell burst in zatting all Jaffa in sight and Teal’c swinging the staff round and killing one of the Baal clones, Baal is still out there all 3,4,5 of him but he can wait until next year. Teal’c was only able to stay on our side thanks this “To resist the influence of others, knowledge of oneself is most important” which makes you wonder what Teal’c was thinking.


The one loophole in this episode was the Jaffa catching Mitchell and then saying freeze now I didn’t know that Jaffa said that, only Kree.

Stronghold recieves a S.G.C rating of 8 out of 9 Chevrons!

[Skydiver]

The one loophole in this episode was the Jaffa catching Mitchell and then saying freeze now I didn’t know that Jaffa said that, only Kree.

Stronghold recieves a S.G.C rating of 8 out of 9 Chevrons!

sometimes you hit a writer's 'gimme'

such as in BSG last week

Spoiler:

when the present capt of the pegasus has CUBAN cigars in his stateroom. CUBAN?????? in a galaxy far, far away?????

[Elite Anubis Guard]

Well...I liked all the seperate stories and particulary Cams, but it seems to me..the team was too spread out. I really enjoyed the action as well.

[the dancer of spaz]

sometimes you hit a writer's 'gimme'

such as in BSG last week

Spoiler:

when the present capt of the pegasus has CUBAN cigars in his stateroom. CUBAN?????? in a galaxy far, far away?????

Bah! That's awesome.

[Uber]

I rewatched part of the ending again and what I saw confirmed my original opinion.

I had no problem with him taking out the battery all by himself, although I found the sequence a bit forced. I also got the feeling through the entire ground battle sequence that Sam felt the need to keep checking up on Mitchell...keep an eye on him, for whatever reason.

However, after taking out the battery, Mitchell keeps going up the hill. Sam radios him and orders him to wait for backup.

He doesn't stop and he doesn't respond.

Sam and Daniel look at each other and she signals that they have to follow him.

So like I said before, Mitchell ignored the mission leader's orders to hold back and wait for backup forcing them to rush after him.

[gateslacker]

And that's the point, isn't it? He hasn't been fighting intergalatic bad guys for 8 years, so why is he co-leading SG-1! I would not have minded Mitchell's behavior on the battlefield at all if he had just communicated to his TEAM members what he was doing! .

Well, in the beginning none of them had any experience and I guess the same argument could be said for Daniel re:being on a frontline team when he had no experience whatsoever in military operations. But, I still maintain that they all have made mistakes...and learned from them. Let's hope Mitchell does the same. I do agree he should have communicated what he was doing. Isn't that why they wear those radio thingies

[gateslacker]

Drat! I didn't plan on becoming a Cameron Mitchell apologist, but I'm getting mighty tired of all the piling on. He can do no right in some eyes, and with the worst spin put on any of his actions and behaviors, I just don't think it's being fair to the character.

LOL, I agree. Kindof reminds me of a time long past, sometime around season six, when another new character could do nothing right. Oh, but I am sure that isn't the same thing

I am enjoying the progression of Mitchell, getting to know him. I don't see Super!Cam nor do I see him being the death and demise of the team and the show. But, I suspend disbelief pretty easily(unless it involves medical goofs which I am keen to pick up on) and I tend to actually take all characters and plot lines at face value. I am not a military expert nor do I play one on TV so I really can't critique any sort of military action or expected bahavior on the part of a team leader. I didn't really question Mitchell's actions in the episode. I had to come on here to see his actions could be interpreted differently...LOL.

One good thing I see, at least the show is still inspiring spirited debate. If it didn't then it surely would be dead.

ETA: I knew there was something else I wanted to say but forgot. It involves Baal, as in Best. Goauld. Ever. LOL!!!

[Mattathias2.0]

Hasn't O'Neill ignored mission orders before?

Mattathias

[jafacakes]

I quite liked this episode, it felt like one from the earlier seasons.
One thing that is nagging me is, rather than taking the alien memory device to his friend, wouldn't it have been more productive if Mitchell had asked Sam to use the healing device on him? Or sugest he become a tokra?

[SimilarCadence]

Guess I'm a little late to the party, but just wanted to put in my two cents worth before a new episode airs.....

I'm not usually a great fan of politics (on any planet) but I found the Jaffa storyline the best part of the story. First of all I loved having Teal'c, Bra'tac and Ba'al together again. Every time I see Ba'al---cloned or the real thing--- I realize just how much I miss the Goa'uld. For me, he's been the most consistently interesting of all the system lords, particularly because he knows he's not a god, but plays along with the whole charade in order to obtain more power. On a purely superficial note, Ba'al hasn't lost his sense of style--fashionista to the end. I love the way he dresses. (Sartorially Impressive One indeed, Chaka's_Mum!) Cliff Simon is fantastic. Period.

There is one suggestion I would make as far as the Free Jaffa go. Rya'c needs to be involved in all this. I've always thought Neil Denis did a great job playing him, from a young boy to a married man, and I 've always liked the fact that the same actor played Rya'c throughout the entire series. It makes sense to me that he would have a large part to play in the new Jaffa storyline....

To tptb: more Bra'tac, more Ba'al and please bring Rya'c back on a regular basis.

[Izzy]

I've finally managed to see Stronghold (deliberately thoroughly spoiled after reading this thread):

- after all the 'Super Cam' fuss I was expecting to see Mitchell lay waste to armies of Jaffa whilst putting the team in terrible peril. What I actually saw was Cam running ahead a bit (leaving the rest of SG-1 with the other SG teams), encountering some very stupid, easy to kill Jaffa and trying to get onto the escaping ship instead of waiting for backup as Sam had ordered. Not quite the OTT Rambo experience I was expecting. I did find it quite fun to watch, though. I can see that this impetuous side of Mitchell is not sitting well with those that know a thing or two about the military and want to see it represented as accurately as possible on Stargate. IMHO a little artistic leeway can help the drama so long as it doesn't get out of hand (Jack defied Hammond's direct orders on at least 2 occasions that I can recall and I find it difficult to believe that the way he conducted himself around his superior officers was according to strict protocol - Jack was still fun to watch). Cam on the (what turned out to be a fairly moderate) rampage gets a moderate fun rating from me.

- Much better than letting BB loose with a gun is letting him act. If you let him act angsty then you are on to a winner because he does it really well. I thought Ben was excellent in his scenes at the hospital with Mitchell's friend and in the scene with Teal'c in the locker room at the end.

- Loved Daniel and Bra'tak together. I've never noticed that dynamic before but I hope we get more of it.

- Although I don't want to see Cam miserable all the time, I'm glad that we're following through on the character trait relating to responsibility that we saw in Collateral Damage. He feels guilt/responsibility for his friend dying and doesn't avoid it - he takes time off to be with him, he pulls strings to get him into the hospital etc.

- I must say that it is always nice to see Sam in a leadership role. I've turned into quite the Cam fan and I don't have the doubts/fears that others have about his leadership abilities but I love Sam too. I'm torn...

I really liked Stronghold. If I had to fault it then it would be that the two storylines - each enjoyable in their own right - didn't gel as well as they might, despite the theme running throughout. If Mitchell had been with the others for more of the episode, finding out what had happened to Teal'c and planning a rescue mission then Stronghold might have been the best ep in s9.

Izzy

[Izzy]

I've finally managed to see Stronghold (deliberately thoroughly spoiled after reading this thread):

Why, oh why, won't my edit function work? And why, oh why, didn't I proof read before posting my last post?

A small thing perhaps but what I intended to convey in the brackets was that I had deliberately read the thread and spoilers contained therein. Instead, as I read it over now, it sounds like I am saying that the thread had deliberately spoiled the episode for me in terms of enjoyment. In the absence of an edit, this will have to do.

I hate it when my drafting goes awry...

Izzy

[Valisnor]

I noticed a few people said something about leaving alien tech at the hospital. Anyone that pays attention would also know that that is a military hospital where alien tech is utilized in the treatment of patients as mentiond by lt.con. and the doctor when discussing his friends brain anurizum. I do agree that the sub plot was very unneeded and detrimental to the rest of the plot and caused some breaks in the story line.

[bcfc]

I enjoyed this episode because of its action towards the end, but i've never really got in to jaffa politics.

Gou'ld battles ya cant beat them