Endgame (810)

[Dani347]

First off, who ever makes the trailers is doing a huge disservice to Stargate. Anyone who saw the trailer knew the Stargate was going to be stolen. That makes the opening scene very anticlimatic. What could have been a "Holy Crap" moment in Stargate history just fizzles because too much is given away in the trailers.

Sadly, this is one thing in which Stargate is only as bad as other shows. I think people who make trailers forget that the purpose is to tease the audience into wanting more, not spilling everything about the episode before it airs.

[greytop]

It made me mad that Jack didn't give the word. He certainly didn't hestitate to shoot Daniel in an earlier episode, so why not give the word?

Maybe because Sam was aboard the ship, is the reaseon he didn't give the word.

[sacme]

She was on a covert operation and was wearing civilian clothes. Get over it already.

BYE

The NID/Trust know what Sam Carter looks like-- her wearing civilian clothes wouldn't fool them. And even if the catsuit rendered her unrecognizeable (a la Superman), the plan was never for her to interact with them. She was just there to storm the building-- therefore no need to wear anything different than the other soldiers.

[Jamaica03]

The NID/Trust know what Sam Carter looks like-- her wearing civilian clothes wouldn't fool them. And even if the catsuit rendered her unrecognizeable (a la Superman), the plan was never for her to interact with them. She was just there to storm the building-- therefore no need to wear anything different than the other soldiers.

I really agree, the last few episodes when she is wearing civilian clothes on duty is really not working. In Affinity she wore jeans and big healed shoes while everyone else was in riot gear, and in Endgame it was the same thing. It just doesn't work well. Why are they separating her from everyone else?

Overall I thought it was a good episode though. I actually thought it was nice not to have a huge cliffhanger for the mid-season break, not showing what happened with the ship or the girl was enough for me.

[Bobthespirit]

I agree that season 8 is probably the weakest season so far with the exception of New Order. I might put it above season 1, which doesn't really do much for me, because of say, Zero Hour and Avatar.

If they couldn't get Andersen on a full schedule maybe they should have made Lost City the finale, because they lost everything Hammond brought to the show as well as losing the SG1 team dynamic. At the very least they should have brought in another Jonas if they were going to do this, so they could still do offworld action episodes.

I liked the idea behind the plot for this episode, but...well..yeah, I agree, no suspense. I enjoyed, it, but it could have been so much better.

[Dani347]

And even if the catsuit rendered her unrecognizeable (a la Superman)

Military garb: I'm Sam Carter Lt. Colonel and Astrophysicist.

Leather ensemble: I'm Muffy Incognito!

I'm Sam! No, I'm Muffy! No, Sam! You can't tell with my wonderful disguise!

[Liebestraume]

Though far from excellent, Endgame was above par for the season. I like that it tied in nicely with some of the foregoing storylines -- the failed Earth/To'kar/Jaffa alliance and the ensuing mistrust, the remnants of the NID, and the various pieces of off-world technology. Clearly it was written by a sure hand with thorough knowledge of the Stargate universe; unfortunately, the way it failed to break new ground was another sign of the show showing its age.

The Trust, as the new villain, might have been more powerful than its predecessor, but at least some of the NID guys had a certain aura of patho that evoked sympathy. The Trust guys just seemed cardboard and down-right nasty. Quite stupid, too. because it made no sense to attack Jaffa soldiers (and hence showing its hand) when the system lords make much better strategic targets.

Which makes Jack's "tough choice" remark somewhat interesting to me. I am of the opinion that his earlier "indecision" goes beyond concern for his friends. He has shown to be capable of making tough choices, then as a colonel and now as a general (and as recent as in Zero Hour). No matter how clueless he may appear at times, Jack always thinks strategically when it comes to warfares. So, I wonder if he intentionally let that ship get away with the remaining "Goa'uld-poison pills." After all, Jack's top priority was to get the gate (and his friend) back on Earth. And, with only six capsules on board and without a long-range delivery system, the Trust guys would be forced to choose their new targets very carefully.

[Major Fischer]

I'm Sam! No, I'm Muffy! No, Sam! You can't tell with my wonderful disguise!

*cough* *choking on my diet coke* *laughing so hard that I'm crying*

[jyh]

From AlphaBlu:

"air-force officer on a covert operation and therefore was wearing civilian clothing as not to give away her position or rank. "

Somehow I don't think most civilians go around with sidearms strapped to their thighs and followed around by heavily-armed swat members! I'm one of those who think Carter was inappopriately dressed on both raids, but esp. the 2nd one. But you'll notice I expressed it as my opinion. Obviously there is no black/white, correct/incorrect way to dress for a raid. But if the writers are curious as to viewers' thoughts on these episodes and what they can do or avoid in the future (which I'm sure they are), they'll be sure to find them on this forum!

However, I definitely agree with you that people should say "in my opinion..." or "I think..." But as we all know, that's not gonna be done all the time by everyone. I guess the work-around is to know that EVERYTHING written on this board is an opinion. (unless quoted from an actual source such as an AF manual or scientific textbook, etc.)

But to me, an opinion is an opinion: you state it and move on. There's no point in arguing with someone who disagrees, or in calling them names... you'll never change their opinion that way, any more than they'll change yours by calling you names. Yes, it's infuriating sometimes that some people can be so bull-headed (especially when they're WRONG! ha ha! that's a joke, people) but arguing doesn't accomplish anything useful. What can I say, I'm a non-confrontationalist.

[Liebestraume]

The NID/Trust know what Sam Carter looks like-- her wearing civilian clothes wouldn't fool them. And even if the catsuit rendered her unrecognizeable (a la Superman), the plan was never for her to interact with them. She was just there to storm the building-- therefore no need to wear anything different than the other soldiers.

I agree. But she looked pretty in that outfit, so it's good enough for me.

(unlike that pink oversized-houndstooth number she donned in Affinity ...)

[norriski]

OK, let me start by saying that I've only read the fist 20 or so posts on this episode so if I rehash something that was completely discussed I'm sorry...
One thing that I noticed in a few of the post I read was people mentioning Daniel in the role of military interrogator, that some something that I noticed as well and it got me thinking....has anyone else noticed that it seems that since Jack took over the SCG Daniel's position is also a little different? What I mean is it seems that Daniel also got a promotion at the same time Jack and Sam did, maybe we don't see it cause he doesn't wear a rank insigna, but there just seems to be something a little different, and it was most apparent in this episode, with his being the one conducting the interviews with Walter and the other guy, and his involvement with the area 51 guy. One thing in that scene that really pointed it out to me was at a gesture Daniel sent the airmen out of the room. Then when Daniel came up with his insane plan, it was almost like an old Gen. Hammond/Col O'Neill scene (almost)...Now all of that to say this....it's got me thinking just what is Daniels role in the SGC, we know that when Dr. Weir was in charge, he held Daniel close and he had major influence on things that happened...we know by Weir being in "command" at Civilianone thing that it is possible that someday the SCG could again come under cilvilian leadership....so it is possible that someday Daniel could be in charge of the SGC? It's just a thought, and to me he is the most logical choice....Now back to present time, (in SG1 would) at least to me it seems like they've mirriored the Gen. Hammond / Jack command relationship in Jack and Daniel now. Yes, it's different because Jack is still well Jack, but it seems to me that the discussions that Gen. Hammond may have had with Jack as his 2IC, Jack has with Daniel and not Carter...I don't know maybe I'm reading to much into it and you all will just think I'm nuts....

One other comment, the discussion at the end with Jack and SG1 about his not ordering the Prometheus to fire, knowing his people were on the ship, to me it was another point in which Gen. O'Neill really "got" what he'd put Gen. Hammond through for all those years. The fact that command decisions are never easy and second guessing can always come up with a different answer, I think Jack saw durring those moments that next time his decision may have to be different and the outcome could be devistating, it's something Jack will have to deal with...

OK I'll shut up now, sorry for rambling (and for my terrible spelling )

[pettygrew]

One thing that I noticed in a few of the post I read was people mentioning Daniel in the role of military interrogator

I could see Daniel making a report about the missing Stargate, but I felt it was out of place for him to be interrogating the British prisoner. Daniel does not carry the authority to bargain. Especially to say they would ignore the $2 million. That role would have been more for the General. In Smoke and Mirrors, it was General Hammond that negotiated with the spy. It would have been more appropriate for Jack to deal with the prisoner and not Daniel.

Something that's becoming more noticeable is the lack of military personnel at the SGC. I haven't seen multiple personnel since Zero Hour. It would appear the only personnel left on base is Walter, Siler, Jack, Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c.

[AlphaBlu]

Take that back! Everyone loves Window Of Opprotunity.....

Yeah, I was about to say. Is there some weird person out there who didn't like WoO?

BYE

[DarkQuee1]

I'm seriously suggesting that Daniel isn't confined to just doing archeology. If we're going for that argument, Daniel would be locked up in a lab, never doing anything but looking at artifacts and ruins which was never all he did even from the beginning of the show. Characters on shows serve multiple functions all the time. Mainly because the big stuff is always going to be given to the people in the main cast. Major storylines will never extend to one time characters or tetriary people. If that requires a suspension of disbelief, it's one that doesn't seem farfetched to me. Like I said, although I don't agree that a civillian can't do an interrogation, especially if a civillian can be in command of a military base, I do understand why someone else might feel that way. But, I never thought that Daniel's knowledge extended solely to archeology and that must eat sleep and breathe archeology and nothing but archeology.

I don't think Daniel's knowledge extends *solely* to archaeology, but I do think that it extends to related areas--and *not* to interrogation techniques. It made no sense except that they needed something for Daniel to do. The initial questionning of Walter and his cohort would better have been done by someone to whom they answer, ie a superior, the person who writes their eval etc, because there is a question as to whether or not they were negligent in their actions. Or else, by the base security chief--and if really doesn't matter if that would be a "tertiary" character since (a) it was a short scene, (b) we had a known character in the scene, Walter, and (c) it would have made more sense.

As to questionning the suspect, that was clearly beyond Daniel's area of expertise. In any other year, it would have been Jack or Hammond doing it. There is simply no way that, in real life, they would have had Daniel doing it. OTOH, if you take away all of the stuff in that ep that wasn't in Daniel's area (interrogation, special ops etc), you are left with nothing for Daniel to do.


J.

[DarkQuee1]

One thing that I noticed in a few of the post I read was people mentioning Daniel in the role of military interrogator, that some something that I noticed as well and it got me thinking....has anyone else noticed that it seems that since Jack took over the SCG Daniel's position is also a little different? What I mean is it seems that Daniel also got a promotion at the same time Jack and Sam did, maybe we don't see it cause he doesn't wear a rank insigna, but there just seems to be something a little different, and it was most apparent in this episode, with his being the one conducting the interviews with Walter and the other guy, and his involvement with the area 51 guy. One thing in that scene that really pointed it out to me was at a gesture Daniel sent the airmen out of the room. Then when Daniel came up with his insane plan, it was almost like an old Gen. Hammond/Col O'Neill scene (almost)...Now all of that to say this....it's got me thinking just what is Daniels role in the SGC, we know that when Dr. Weir was in charge, he held Daniel close and he had major influence on things that happened...we know by Weir being in "command" at Civilianone thing that it is possible that someday the SCG could again come under cilvilian leadership....so it is possible that someday Daniel could be in charge of the SGC? It's just a thought, and to me he is the most logical choice....Now back to present time, (in SG1 would) at least to me it seems like they've mirriored the Gen. Hammond / Jack command relationship in Jack and Daniel now. Yes, it's different because Jack is still well Jack, but it seems to me that the discussions that Gen. Hammond may have had with Jack as his 2IC, Jack has with Daniel and not Carter...I don't know maybe I'm reading to much into it and you all will just think I'm nuts....

I can't agree that there has been any change in Daniel's position. The problem is twofold: (1) RDA's reduced schedule, which keeps him from doing stuff that either Jack (in the old days) or Hammond would have done, and (2) the fact that they have no "Daniel things" for Daniel to do. Other than translating for Jack in TLC, when's the last time they needed Daniel's archeological knowledge or for him to do any real translating? The storyline has moved past the need for an archaeologist/linguist on SG-1; they simply don't do much exploring anymore.

So, in order to have a part for Daniel and to take up the slack for RDA's/Jack's absence, they are moving Daniel into things that Jack would have done, because there's nowhere else to put him that would give him any screen time. He's becoming Jack-lite. Even the way he solved the problem on the ship--blasting the crystals--was pure Jack (in fact, Jack did it in Revelations).

Problem is, it's not believable that this base would, in reality, use Daniel that way. But then, in real life, it wouldn't be a concern that Daniel have screen time, and so he would be concentrating on the archaeological finds or linguistic problems that other teams were coming up with (in fact, he might very well be spending a lot of time with teams that were doing pure exploration).

The second problem is that it removes Daniel from having a different perspective. He's playing soldier so much now that it no longer rings true to say that he brings a civilian or academic eye to a situation.


J.