Scorched Earth (409)

[jelgate]

But you could argue that for all intents and purposes the Gadmeer were already dead/extinct. You have one race, the Enkarans that they know vs an automated ship with biological samples. A biological sample is not an entity in itself and therefore it makes sense to side with the actual people who are still alive.

Just now I realized that the Gadmeer are kind of similar to

Spoiler:

the Asgard once they've blown themselves up and handed their knowledge over to the SGC in the end. We saw Sam working with the 'Asgard' as a hologram which makes me wonder if the core includes all the Asgard's consciousnesses and if it would be possible, in the future, to give them new bodies.

Thats just unfair bias. Just because their status of living is different then what we consider normal, we shouldn't automatically stay their lives is less important.

[fems]

Thats just unfair bias. Just because their status of living is different then what we consider normal, we shouldn't automatically stay their lives is less important.

But at that point they basically weren't alive, therefore they wouldn't have lives...

[Lunaeclipse]

Thats just unfair bias. Just because their status of living is different then what we consider normal, we shouldn't automatically stay their lives is less important.

Didn't Daniel say something like that once?

[hedwig]

Thats just unfair bias. Just because their status of living is different then what we consider normal, we shouldn't automatically stay their lives is less important.

Would you be willing to give up your home and life for a society that is stored in tissue samples so that those tissue samples could be regenerated while you had to die so they could live?

[jelgate]

But at that point they basically weren't alive, therefore they wouldn't have lives...

They were alive. They were basically in a form of statsis/storage. That is still alive.

Didn't Daniel say something like that once?

Probably since we are sharing simliar viewpoints in this scenario

Would you be willing to give up your home and life for a society that is stored in tissue samples so that those tissue samples could be regenerated while you had to die so they could live?

It would never be more choice to make because obviously I want to live. Just like the other species has the desire to live. Its wrong because they are different to write off their desire to live

[hedwig]

I thought the Gadmeer had been reduced to tissue samples and were embedded in those plastic/crystals in the drawers, which also included plant and animal tissue samples. They were in storage, so to speak (for who knows how long and could have stayed that way for another long while), and regardless of what Lotan said, it was possible (even if minimally so) that another planet could be found for them that would have been suitable for them to live on. There are always other possibilities, even if we or SG1 weren't informed of them in this episode.

And since the Gadmeer were supposedly a peaceful race, I doubt very much they would have willingly killed off another civilization in order for themselves to be regenerated. After all, that is exactly the kind of destruction they were running from at the hands of some enemy of theirs. I don't think Lotan's instructions included a specific order that he demand the surrender of a planet or all on it would die. That doesn't sound peaceful to me.

Its wrong because they are different to write off their desire to live

That's not what Jack was doing.

[jelgate]

I thought the Gadmeer had been reduced to tissue samples and were embedded in those plastic/crystals in the drawers, which also included plant and animal tissue samples. They were in storage, so to speak (for who knows how long and could have stayed that way for another long while), and regardless of what Lotan said, it was possible (even if minimally so) that another planet could be found for them that would have been suitable for them to live on. There are always other possibilities, even if we or SG1 weren't informed of them in this episode.

No. Lothan said the ship could only terraform one planet and had started the process before the Enkarians had been implanted on the planet by SG1.

And since the Gadmeer were supposedly a peaceful race, I doubt very much they would have willingly killed off another civilization in order for themselves to be regenerated. After all, that is exactly the kind of destruction they were running from at the hands of some enemy of theirs. I don't think Lotan's instructions included a specific order that he demand the surrender of a planet or all on it would die. That doesn't sound peaceful to me.

Probably not but at the same time I don't think they would want to become extinct themselves

[fems]

They were alive. They were basically in a form of statsis/storage. That is still alive.

Paah, you do realize that the preserved biological samples are probably mere skin cells, right? I can understand people's reasoning against medical testing on, say, human embryos because according to them human life starts at conception but now you're basically saying every biological sample (hair, skin cells, blood, urine etc) equals life.

[hedwig]

No. Lothan said the ship could only terraform one planet and had started the process before the Enkarians had been implanted on the planet by SG1.

Probably not but at the same time I don't think they would want to become extinct themselves

The point is that they were in stasis, and even if it were true that the ship could terraform only one planet, it doesn't mean the ship could not have gone looking about the galaxy for another planet that would suit their needs. After all, they bypassed the Enkarans homeworld because of one little bitty (or maybe a little bigger than "bitty") flaw. Given the number of worlds throughout the galaxy, it's hard to believe another one could not be found for them.

After all, they were in stasis or nothing more than tissue samples. For them, no time would have passed between becoming tissue samples and being regenerated somewhere else. This one planet was not the end of the line for the Gadmeer, no matter what Lotan said. We don't know that he was interpreting his directives accurately. There was no actual rush for them to be regenerated. The ship was not in danger of being destroyed if it went off searching again.

[hlndncr]

The point is that they were in stasis, and even if it were true that the ship could terraform only one planet, it doesn't mean the ship could not have gone looking about the galaxy for another planet that would suit their needs. After all, they bypassed the Enkarans homeworld because of one little bitty (or maybe a little bigger than "bitty") flaw. Given the number of worlds throughout the galaxy, it's hard to believe another one could not be found for them.

After all, they were in stasis or nothing more than tissue samples. For them, no time would have passed between becoming tissue samples and being regenerated somewhere else. This one planet was not the end of the line for the Gadmeer, no matter what Lotan said. We don't know that he was interpreting his directives accurately. There was no actual rush for them to be regenerated. The ship was not in danger of being destroyed if it went off searching again.

I think the problem was not that the ship couldn't have searched longer but that the process of transforming the planet had already begun before the Enkarans arrived, just so far from the gate that the ship was not noticed. Remember Lotan stated that there were no sentient inhabitants when the planet was scanned and when the ship discovered them it was too late to stop the process because the ship only had enough material for one planet once the process had begun.

However, it does appear that the process could be halted for a time and then resumed again later as the ship took the Enkarans back to their homeworld before completing the planetary transformation. Therefore, the obvious solution would have been for Lotan to halt the process while they negotiated a settlement and/or searched for another world for the Enkarans. The error was for Lotan not to offer this information (that the process could be halted for a time and resumed later) or for us (ie Daniel) not to ask that question initially. As a result, the ticking clock that caused all the contension (stop the ship before it destroyed the gate) was unnecessarily self-imposed by the poor communication, which arguably was exaserbated by Jack's hasty favoritism, Lotan's intransigence and Daniel's petulance.

[fems]

I think the problem was not that the ship couldn't have searched longer but that the process of transforming the planet had already begun before the Enkarans arrived, just so far from the gate that the ship was not noticed. Remember Lotan stated that there were no sentient inhabitants when the planet was scanned and when the ship discovered them it was too late to stop the process because the ship only had enough material for one planet once the process had begun.

However, it does appear that the process could be halted for a time and then resumed again later as the ship took the Enkarans back to their homeworld before completing the planetary transformation. Therefore, the obvious solution would have been for Lotan to halt the process while they negotiated a settlement and/or searched for another world for the Enkarans. The error was for Lotan not to offer this information (that the process could be halted for a time and resumed later) or for us (ie Daniel) not to ask that question initially. As a result, the ticking clock that caused all the contension (stop the ship before it destroyed the gate) was unnecessarily self-imposed by the poor communication, which arguably was exaserbated by Jack's hasty favoritism, Lotan's intransigence and Daniel's petulance.

But... if they had asked the question the episode wouldn't have had the same effect!

[Dimes]

Alright episode...

[skim172]

I'm kinda in Col. O'Neill's camp in this episode. While I sympathize with the Gadmeer and their wish to rebirth their race, they're already dead. Unless I got it wrong, all that was on board the ship was skin samples. It's not a hibernation ship - it's a seed ship. It terraforms the planet and seeds it with flora and fauna to make it resemble the original. If I die, but my DNA samples are frozen in some lab, I can't argue that because the DNA samples can be used to generate other humans that I must still be alive. Or if my organs are donated, that I'm still alive and occupying the chest cavity of some other guy.

It's not ideal, and obviously the solution that they came up with is much more preferable to all parties involved. But if it truly is nothing more than a seed ship, then I'd have to argue that the Gadmeer are already dead and gone. And the Enkarans are very much alive. Destroying the Gadmeer ship would not kill them again.

[Gate_Builder]

This is one of those philosophical episodes where they have to decide on an ethical issue. But they did come up with a good alternative. As for the Gadmeer, I have to disagree that they are already dead and gone since they still have in place a system to continue their species. It's kind of like smallpox. Supposed to be completely irradicated around the world, but... the CDC (and other countries I'm sure) still have some frozen in special freezers for research. So it's not really gone, just in a kind of storage, like the Gadmeer.

[pepsiadikt]

I know this is an older thread but I just watched this episode and what really bugs me, is why didn't SG1 just gate home first, then the Enkarens could have just taken THAT gate with them?? It was going to get destroyed anyway? lol Nobody else has asked this yet. Didn't make sense to me.