Memento Mori (1008)

[Pitry]

I also commend CB for giving her best. And I also commend AT, CJ, BB, and MS for giving their best.

See, there's my problem, right there. I didn't feel CB gave her best in this episode. I felt we got quite a lot of much better performances from her in past episodes. It felt much more the "automatic pilot" kind of acting, falling back into old patterns and not looking for the new angle - much liek I feel about MS' performance in Icon, for example.

I agree, however, there wasn't character development for Vala in this episode. I didn't see a new - or extanded - angle of the character, either. If you're doing a character-centric episode, I'd expect some actual development... btu unfortunately, much lie Sateda, this was getting back to old, safe ground. As I said in my original thoughts about the episode, I felt Counterstrike, while having less screen time for CB, did more justice to both her in terms of acting and her character in terms of development.

[LaCroix]

It's blame it on my mid-west up-bringing.

[DEM]

Kat you wrote what I was feeling when I watched this episode.

I wanted to see something other than the norm as of late. I wanted to see a Kendra or Sarah Gardner type episode.

Ah! YES! Great analogy, LaCroix. Frankly, I think a major reason I liked both of those characters (even when I disliked them 'as people') was because their stories were so rich. They were real. Heck, Sarah-Osiris is the only redeeming aspect of Chimera for me; I have been known to fast-forward thru the Carter parts () to get back to the Osiris story. Pity the writers lamed out on the Sarah-Osiris story after that. /

Now you've got me wanting to watch Thor's Hammer & The Curse. Say, perhaps that's what I'll do during that inevitable 'twilight time' before tonight's new ep.

[DEM]

See, there's my problem, right there. I didn't feel CB gave her best in this episode. I felt we got quite a lot of much better performances from her in past episodes. It felt much more the "automatic pilot" kind of acting, falling back into old patterns and not looking for the new angle - much liek I feel about MS' performance in Icon, for example.

I've held my tongue regarding CB's performance in this ep because, despite my seeming misanthropy, I do feel bad (sometimes) about critiquing actors' performances. Plus, it seemed like most people thought CB did great. Now that you've opened the gate, however... I would not say that CB was on automatic pilot. What it seemed more like to me, was that she was having trouble finding her character's centre (do actors still use that terminology)? I also thought that about another ep this season, too, but darn if I can remember which it was. I'd have to do a search. What I mean is: CB is having a hard time finding the core of Vala due to the writers' not very sophisticated attempts to "tone her down".

Kinda sucks, really. I'd like to see CB have better material.

[Skydiver]

all that was new abut vala in this eps was her wardrobe

we learned nothing else

quick wit - knew that
slighty naughty - certainly knew that
fighter - knew that
survivor - knew that
ex-host - knew that

[Racingtime]

I would just like to see the guy happy, and it certainly would not take away from all the other moments that the writers can dream up.

Well for me personally, I don't think that a romantic scene needs to be shown to have him be happy. I realize that other people disagree with that but I see him having just as many happy moments if he'd be given time to joke around and hang out with the others.

The writers waste plenty of time watching the team walking, and walking, and walking. THAT'S wasted time, imo.

I agree and I don't. On one hand, if it's just a long time walking scene with no purpose and no talking then I agree it's wasted time. But if they're talking about something important or the walking is being done in a way important to the plot, then I don't agree that it's wasted. Again it depends on how long it is too.

Also, just because YOU don't see a point to it doesn't mean other posters do see a point to it. (just saying)

Obviously I never assumed that everyone would agree with me but I can only state my opinion.

So, I guess you've gone for ten years without any interaction with the opposite sex and find that perfectly normal? I, personally, think it's a little nuts. Eh, it could just be me.

Since you're referring to a romantic/sexual interaction (I assume), I'd start by saying that as a gay man, the opposite sex part of the equation doesn't really count for me in that kind of situation. That said, no I've had plenty of that kind of interaction within the last 10 years but at the same time, I'm not Daniel. I'm in my early 20s and don't have an important job that I am devoted to and while I have close friends, they aren't people that I have to rely on to have my back in life or death situations. Given how devoted Daniel is to his work and how close he is with his friends, I don't see him being lonely even without the "romantic" interaction. Plus you can't say that there hasn't been ANY interaction with the opposite sex because there has been some in that time. (I'm still assuming you only mean romantic/sexual here since he's also obviously interacted with Sam as a close friend.) But again, Daniel doesn't appear to me to be lacking just because he hasn't had much romance over the years.

Again, maybe it's me, but I find that a little isolating. Is it going to kill Daniel not to have these things? No. He adores Sam, Jack, and Teal'c, and I fully admit that they are all the family he needs. It still doesn't negate the fact that beyond them he has no one else. I don't know why this is such a problem to just admit.

I don't have a problem with admitting that he doesn't really have anyone else outside of Sam, Jack, and Teal'c (I'd also add Hammond and now Mitchell and Vala...though Vala I still count as only a friend). Though I would argue that we never did hear what happened to Sarah so you could always fanwank that they still keep in touch. The part I do have a "problem" with admitting is that this is isolating because, this is just my opinion, but I don't see it that way. There are a lot of people out there who don't even have close friends or family at their side so I'd say that Daniel's life is very rich given how much intimacy there is between him and his friends.

A person can be isolated by lack of family, lack of friends, lack of interaction on a platonic level.

But Daniel doesn't have a lack of those things so I'm still failing to see the isolation.

It doesn't matter that you didn't actually SEE a romantic moment between Jack and Sam. It's been implied ad nauseum. Please.

Yes, I realize it has been implied many times over the years, however, I still disagree with adding them separately as having a connection outside of SG-1 since nothing ever actually happened between them in that way. If you add them separately then you'd have to add something like Jack and Daniel separately as well since they experienced things together that the others didn't and so on.

Sam had a huge romance with Pete and almost got married. Jack and Teal'c also had their encounters, and Daniel's "moment" with Share lasted one episode in year one.

Well technically Daniel had little encounters as well even though they all turned out to be bad (though the other SG-1 members didn't exactly have their small ones turn out great either). Sam probably had the biggest romantic onscreen interaction but I'd still argue that Daniel's was more intimate with Sha're than Sam's was with Pete mainly because she was so undecided with Pete. Also Daniel's moment with Sha're wasn't just in 1 episode. Despite them being sad, he had some very nice moments with Sha're in the other two episodes she appeared in too.

[Racingtime]

And if anyone did think to ask what it was about, any number of throwaway excuses would work and never be questioned too deeply

I personally liked the excuse they gave in Affinity where he said something about it being a tribal decoration from his homeland (which is technically true but would be easily accepted by humans).

[Dani347]

This D/V discussion, especially the posts from me, Racingtime, and Maxum have brought up a question. It's more ship related in general, rather than the D/V thing or the episode, so I'm going to post it in the anti ship thread. Maxum, if you take a look and feel you want to respond and carry on a discussion from both sides, let me know, and I'll also post it in the ship discussion thread.

[majorsal]

But then I've given up looking for the military accuracy and attention to realistic detail on this show anymore. So can't say that it really surprises me that Vala gets what everyone else didn't. Clearly, these days, the writers will write what suits them to get to their plot. Regardless of how much sense it makes or doesn't make.

*nods* yep.






sally

[The Ori]

If they tried to make it a character development ep, it didn't work!!

[Pitry]

I've held my tongue regarding CB's performance in this ep because, despite my seeming misanthropy, I do feel bad (sometimes) about critiquing actors' performances. Plus, it seemed like most people thought CB did great. Now that you've opened the gate, however... I would not say that CB was on automatic pilot. What it seemed more like to me, was that she was having trouble finding her character's centre (do actors still use that terminology)? I also thought that about another ep this season, too, but darn if I can remember which it was. I'd have to do a search. What I mean is: CB is having a hard time finding the core of Vala due to the writers' not very sophisticated attempts to "tone her down".

Kinda sucks, really. I'd like to see CB have better material.

Ah but I have to disagree (hey, I'm allowed to, I Have Opened The Gate! bwahahaha)
I - usually - think CB is great on Stargate. I don't know about acting terminology or how they look for their character's core, but most of the time I feel she's giving a great performance. Specifically, in Memento Mori.... I both didn't feel the livelihood I'm usually getting from her, and - most important to me - I felt she's more falling to regular patterns. That's why I brought up MS in Icon - when I watch him in that episode, as much as I usually enjoy his performance as an actor, I just feel a "let's get it over with" feeling. Cliche Daniel more than... oh, I lack the terminology to put it into words. Hope I'm not confusing anyone.

As for critisising actors' performances.... well, I have to say that as long as it's done politely and not bashing a person, how is it differnet than critisisng a director or writer or producer?

[Zoser]

This D/V discussion, especially the posts from me, Racingtime, and Maxum have brought up a question. It's more ship related in general, rather than the D/V thing or the episode, so I'm going to post it in the anti ship thread. Maxum, if you take a look and feel you want to respond and carry on a discussion from both sides, let me know, and I'll also post it in the ship discussion thread.

Those are both protected threads - Is there a 'ship or no ship thread' where we can have an adult discussion? (rather than one of those "OH I just love X and Y to snog eternally and make babies" vs "Gross waste of time")

[Dani347]

Those are both protected threads - Is there a 'ship or no ship thread' where we can have an adult discussion? (rather than one of those "OH I just love X and Y to snog eternally and make babies" vs "Gross waste of time")

The ship discussion thread is for people on both sides of the issue. It's neither all anti or all pro.

[esoap524]

Originally Posted by DEM
I've held my tongue regarding CB's performance in this ep because, despite my seeming misanthropy, I do feel bad (sometimes) about critiquing actors' performances. Plus, it seemed like most people thought CB did great. Now that you've opened the gate, however... I would not say that CB was on automatic pilot. What it seemed more like to me, was that she was having trouble finding her character's centre (do actors still use that terminology)? I also thought that about another ep this season, too, but darn if I can remember which it was. I'd have to do a search. What I mean is: CB is having a hard time finding the core of Vala due to the writers' not very sophisticated attempts to "tone her down".

Kinda sucks, really. I'd like to see CB have better material.

Maybe "Morpheus"?

First off--is "green" the right term, as far as giving you an amen for saying "I'd like to see CB have better material." That would be a resounding, king size AMEN from me.

I can't say that the performance itself is off kilter...I really can't tell about the performance itself. That being said...It seemed like "Memento Mori" was trying to be too many things. Was it suspense? Comedy? Drama? Some shows can balance all three successfully, or at least Drama/Comedy, but this episode didn't succeed on either level. Thus, it could/would feel like the actor who was taking point wasn't quite nailing the performance. I left the episode feeling very disappointed, and I was really looking forward to the ep, CB/Vala fan that I am.

CB is having a hard time finding the core of Vala due to the writers' not very sophisticated attempts to "tone her down".

Again, I can't comment on the performance because I can't tell one way or the other. But, to me, it seems that she's not written consistently. The whole little girl lost thing doesn't work for me that well--Vala was canny enough to steal the Prometheus, for god's sake, to work her way back into the SGC, to manipulate Daniel and everyone else, to close the Ori beachhead, to convince a devout Ori follower to marry her and to convince him that she was pregnant with his child AND to occupy Daniel's body to spread the bad news about the Ori. And she held her own against the spawn of fanaticism.

I'm all for the Vala snark and humor and even baiting Daniel and even showing vulnerability --I swear, I'm a sap because that last scene where she says "daniel" and lowered the gun was probably my favorite.

But...

I wish the writers would remember that smart character; in toning her down, they're actually just making her stupid. She's a lot of things, many of them not necessarily noble, but stupid isn't one of them.

[Callista]

I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I was just watching the commentary for Ex Deus Machina and JM was saying that Ba'al's henchwoman, Charlotte, is going to turn out to be a goa'uld in season 10. She's Athena, right? If so, why couldn't Sam sense her being a goa'uld when she was talking with her in Ex Deus Machina? Can Sam not sense that anymore? (I'm assuming the answer is that TPTB are still downplaying the extra things Sam gained from Jolinar i.e.: they want us to forget about it, or that they forgot, or that they weren't intending Charlotte to be a goa'uld when they did Ex Deus Machina....But, if those aren't the reason/s, I was wondering if I missed something somewhere.)