The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[AGateFan]

I'm suprised they havent made Baal a member of the SGC. After all hes cool and fun and has proved himself useful and has even helped SG1 save the galaxy (by reconfiguring the stargate to kill all the replicators...for those unfamiliar with previous seasons). Apparently the only requirements needed for joining now adays. Who cares that he cant be trusted, hes USEFUL and FUN and COOL.

EDIT: Oh, wait, I forgot hes not shipped with anyone....yet.

[majorsal]

I'm suprised they havent made Baal a member of the SGC. After all hes cool and fun and has proved himself useful and has even helped SG1 save the galaxy (by reconfiguring the stargate to kill all the replicators...for those unfamiliar with previous seasons). Apparently the only requirements needed for joining now adays. Who cares that he cant be trusted, hes USEFUL and FUN and COOL.

and i agree! and while we're at it, let's invite the Lucian Alliance to the sgc to have their own sg team. i'm sure vala can help them adjust and even show them how to be comfortable sitting in the general's seat.

wait... i hope i just didn't give the ptb an idea for the third series...





sally

[pittsburghgirl]

well, as a huge jack fan, i can't believe anyone (his friends, scg, etc) forgave baal for what he did. and i call not getting him back forgiving him, so to speak.

but that's water under the bridge writing staffs' bridge; they don't really care that much about writing consequences.




sally

they never seemed to care about writing consequences. that an continuity were not in their vocabulary or handbook of writing interesting and involving storylines.

[suse]

But we found we could use her knowledge (which was the reason why we kept her) and through her time with us, she proved herself at least helpful.

Helpful? Of course she's been helpful. She has every reason to be helpful. For the moment. Until she doesn't have a reason any more. Camulus was helpful. As long as we fed him. And as soon as he could he turned. She's a long term con artist. Who learned from the best - the Goa'uld. Exactly why should we (unconditionally) trust her? Helpful does not equal trustworthy. Which is what accepting her as a member of the team implies.

I'm fairly certain she's being written to actually be as trustworthy as accepting her on the team implies. I just don't buy it.


Suse

[suse]

I'm suprised they havent made Baal a member of the SGC. After all hes cool and fun and has proved himself useful and has even helped SG1 save the galaxy (by reconfiguring the stargate to kill all the replicators...for those unfamiliar with previous seasons). Apparently the only requirements needed for joining now adays. Who cares that he cant be trusted, hes USEFUL and FUN and COOL.

EDIT: Oh, wait, I forgot hes not shipped with anyone....yet.

Let's not forget he's a snappy dresser (likes trhat leather) and has a great accent.

Suse

[ACharmedAsgard]

The writting of Vala becoming part of SG-1 is screwed up basically and they've total changed baal as a character.

This not good...at all

[Skydiver]

it is like they no longer have any respect at all for the basis of the show, the foundation that it's built upon and switch and change it at a whim if it suits thier present story.

ba'al is just one victim of 'screw the character, let's tell my story'

sam is stupidified to make a poorly written plot work, vala is slutified for a joke, daniel is wussified cause it's soo much funnier when vala harrasses him. cameron is idiotified cause, well SOMEONE has to touch that button cause if htey don't, well the rest of the episode won't work

instead of making thier story fit the parameters of the characters, they warp and twist the characters to fit thier story. and then mock fans when we go 'dude, sam would not just give ba'al what he wants' or 'since when is cameron that stupid'

the writers continuously mock and disrespect the characters in their drive to tell the story they want to tell instead of taking the time to make the story fit the characters.

they've done it with the whole Merlin mess. since when did a 1000 year old legend apply to aliens that were here 10,000 years ago???

as i was watching the da vinci code last night it hit me, one reason so many found the movie appealing....there's just enough 'fact' in the fiction to pique your imagination and interest. just enough reality in the fantasy to make you sit up and think. and that's what worked for the goa'uld too. There was a 'real' hathor, ra, anubis, apophis, etc and you could let your imagination run rampant.

with merlin and arthur??? its too recent. too much is known.

I think if htey really wanted to mess with an old tale they might have looked into the Epic of Gilgamesh. this planet's oldest tale ever. There's just enough there to be interesting, it is an ancient love story after all, but not so much info that folks go 'dude, that did not happen that way, even the teachers at Harvard say so'

but they don't seem willing to take the time and research to treat the franchise 'right' and instead are just mucking about, warping and twisting it into something that's quite unrecognizable, and then get huffy when fans go 'hey, what did you do with our show????'

[Pitry]

And reduce themselves to his level? I'm glad they didn't...

Definitely. SG1 has always made a great deal about keeping the moral standards, something I often wish Atlantis would haev had. Just liek they ended up letting Nirrti go in Rite of Passage, I'm glad they didn't set out to exectue Ba'al.

[ACharmedAsgard]

Definitely. SG1 has always made a great deal about keeping the moral standards, something I often wish Atlantis would haev had. Just liek they ended up letting Nirrti go in Rite of Passage, I'm glad they didn't set out to exectue Ba'al.

I hope they do!

[ParadoxRealities]

Definitely. SG1 has always made a great deal about keeping the moral standards, something I often wish Atlantis would haev had. Just liek they ended up letting Nirrti go in Rite of Passage, I'm glad they didn't set out to exectue Ba'al.

execution? no. desire for revenge? yes. he tortured and killed jack for god's sake, multiple times. and they welcome him without a hint of anger? i thought you only get that when you steal an earth ship, kidnap daniel, and leave the crew to die. if i hadn't seen Abyss, i wouldn't know there was ANY bad blood there at all. That Ba'al, terrifying and evil, could have made a GREAT story. he had history and individuality, but like so many characters lately, that was sacrificed--for what? mediocrity?

[Skydiver]

they didn't have to torture or imprison ba'al...but it would have been nice if they'd have jsut MENTIONED it. mentioned that SG1 hates baal cause of what they did to jack.
or heck, even had jack be more than a little ticked to even have to deal with the man.

remember jack adn the russians???? the dude carries grudges. jack and the ruskies is a 20 year grudge...and he just brushes baal off????

not likely. but dealing iwth it woulda meant acknowledging those oh so boring 8 years of history coop inherited. and can't have that. might slow up the bori storyline

[jenks]

they didn't have to torture or imprison ba'al...but it would have been nice if they'd have jsut MENTIONED it.

I think the writers sort of did, if you take a look at his contribution to the chest

[Arctic Goddess]

cause he has a good agent

Because he's a good actor and is well liked by the fans. He is in Stargate still because he is an awesome actor. His agent has nothing to do with it.

[Skydiver]

Because he's a good actor and is well liked by the fans. He is in Stargate still because he is an awesome actor. His agent has nothing to do with it.

down girl/guy/person

it's a joke.

hence the smilie

[Arctic Goddess]

down girl/guy/person

it's a joke.

hence the smilie

I'm female (Goddess is female). I've been reading through this thread for some time. I got jumped on for daring to suggest that when RDA left the series, things began falling apart. I think that if RDA was still deeply involved with Stargate the quality might be better.

However, I get quite defencive and irritated when Cliff Simon is attacked. It was my understanding that, on Gate World we can comment on the characters but not say nasty things about the actors. Is that correct?

Also, the sarcasm was getting a little thick on this thread. I'm all for debate, but not when it involves attacking actors and writers. I'm also not trying to be nasty. I just think that there are reasons for the way things have been written on Stargate and Atlantis, and maybe not all of it is to our liking all of the time, but that's the nature of entertainment. Not everything will appeal to everybody. We are all products of our environment. If a bunch of male writers write like men, well, that's because they are men. To get more balanced writing they should employ writers of both sexes from different backgrounds.

That's my humble opinion.