S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Jackie]

easier said than done after 10 years

which is why they needed to hire an outside QC guy after Gekko left. I have the impression they are relying on skiffy for outside QC.

working with family and friends is not impossible and can be done and done well. Just have to be aware of the pitfall and be conscious of your relationships.

[Silverwings]

which is why they needed to hire an outside QC guy after Gekko left. I have the impression they are relying on skiffy for outside QC.

working with family and friends is not impossible and can be done and done well. Just have to be aware of the pitfall and be conscious of your relationships.

Ah, but that requires humility and intellectual honesty. Those are in short supply these days.

[jckfan55]

Well and how often have we heard interviews with actors for movies saying how much fun they had making the movie and then the movie stunk? Just because you like the person you work with doesn't necessarily mean you'll get a good product. I think for most of SG1's run, they managed to get both, but maybe along the way TPTB forgot that's not all it takes.
I think the original cast really liked each other & had talent, but they also had good scripts to work with 9 times out of 10 (imho).

If nothing else, observing the debacle of S9 & 10 has illustrated to me that it takes a lot of things working together to make a show really work.

And to keep one going takes understanding what has worked in the past.
Now I know the Law and Order series are nothing like SG1 except in that they each have had a certain formula but I think I can make some comparison. L&O has changed cast members (some more successfully than others) but has not changed the overall tone of the show. We didn't get the introduction of a new detective or DA and along with it a change to a romantic comedy or shoot 'em up cop show. The producer stayed true to the overall vision that had worked, imho.

[Jackie]

YEP! and going from a drama to a comedy was not in the shows best interest either.

what tptb produced was no accident though. They deliberatly changed the whole show. Changed the tone, the shooting techniques, the characters...everything. Purposely made the Goa'uld into a joke. Made a prostituting con artist into the star. Sidelined Sam and Teal'c. Blew up Thor....the list goes on.

true, too much fun usually makes the QC go down but with Stargate 9 and 10...it goes far beyond just QC.

I know many readers (especially those who just lurk) look at the complaints on this thread and think we have no reason to be so critical because we don't actually write script work.

Well, I have now started writing plays and first of all...it's far easier than writing a novel and secondly writing in restraints isn't very hard either. I'm currently writing a ww2 play based in an airfield. That's just as challenging as writing a script for a sci-fi show...actually, it's even harder because this play doesn't have the luxury of stopping the camera and shooting something else.

So actually writing Stargate the Musical or Stargate the Comedy isn't that difficult.

Keeping the tone of the show is still key no matter what they write.

[jckfan55]

Purposely made the Goa'uld into a joke.

That is one of the things that continues to irk me. Sure the goa'uld were "overdressed bad guys" ( I think that's one of O'Neill's lines)--but hey, they were passing themselves off as gods so it made sense that they would be a bit OTT. But when it came down to it, they were still deadly bad guys who enslaved whole populations. Jack mocked them but not because he didn't take the threat seriously.

I particularly detest the turning of Ba'al into a joke. He was one of the most evil goa'ulds we saw. Abyss was a classic episode in my book. Great work by RDA, MS & CS. The almost casual evil of Ba'al with that acid stuff & killing Jack over and over again was quite chilling. Making Ba'al (& his gaggle of clones) a joke diminishes O'Neill's suffering and sacrifice.

I just go back to the comfort that S9 & 10 was just a bad dream and never really happened.

[Silverwings]

I don't watch broadcast TV since there's not much that I particularly care for. I've gone out of my way to buy DVDs of Stargate SG-1, oddly enough. I saw "The First Ones" and "Window of Opportunity" a few years ago during Saturday reruns in between checking some VHS tapes, and I was hooked.

I will not be purchasing seasons 9 and 10. I'm watching them with my wife, thanks to some kind neighbors who loaned their DVDs to us, but I have no interest in watching them again, and certainly no interest in buying them for repeat watching.

My Season 4 DVDs, however, will always be close at hand.

[Jackie]

the killing Jack over and over was what made the ep...that was torture to the extreme. Not even death could release the pain.

I think the writer's are trying the same thing with the Wraith but it's just not as frightening because the wraith only bring them to the bring and then pull them back.

Now, if the wraith had a sarcophagus and drained the victim dry and then just pop him in there to regenerate and then drain over and over again...that would not only be a renewable food source but horrific as well.

[scifithinker]

I know many readers (especially those who just lurk) look at the complaints on this thread and think we have no reason to be so critical because we don't actually write script work.

I actually wrote a spec script for Next Gen many years ago. I analyzed many episodes for structure and timing, researched psychiatric and chemical sciences as well as botany, and then wrote most of the script. I had it evaluated at a convention writer's workshop, and the facilitator, a college writing professor as well as a New York Times bestselling author, called Ron Moore (yes, the Ron Moore currently doing BSG) to ask him if he'd like to buy it. I was thrilled, but that whole experience doesn't make me more qualified to evaluate the downfall of SG1.

I don't have to be a poet to appreciate poetry. I don't have to cook like Emeril to know if I like a restaurant. I don't have to be a seamstress to know that a dress doesn't fit me properly. I don't have to write novels to know when one isn't well-written. And I certainly don't need to be a professional scriptwriter to know when a TV show is poorly scripted.

I have watched every episode of SG-1 at least once, so I know the show rather well. I have discussed many aspects of the show with other fans, both in person and online. I could write a reasoned paper complete with thesis statement, major and minor details and quotes from the show on the problems with seasons 9 and 10. While not everybody would agree with the conclusions I'd reach, I think it would be obvious that I had carefully considered my arguments. My not being a scriptwriter would not make my points any less valid.

[suse]

I actually wrote a spec script for Next Gen many years ago. I analyzed many episodes for structure and timing, researched psychiatric and chemical sciences as well as botany, and then wrote most of the script. I had it evaluated at a convention writer's workshop, and the facilitator, a college writing professor as well as a New York Times bestselling author, called Ron Moore (yes, the Ron Moore currently doing BSG) to ask him if he'd like to buy it. I was thrilled, but that whole experience doesn't make me more qualified to evaluate the downfall of SG1.

I don't have to be a poet to appreciate poetry. I don't have to cook like Emeril to know if I like a restaurant. I don't have to be a seamstress to know that a dress doesn't fit me properly. I don't have to write novels to know when one isn't well-written. And I certainly don't need to be a professional scriptwriter to know when a TV show is poorly scripted.

I have watched every episode of SG-1 at least once, so I know the show rather well. I have discussed many aspects of the show with other fans, both in person and online. I could write a reasoned paper complete with thesis statement, major and minor details and quotes from the show on the problems with seasons 9 and 10. While not everybody would agree with the conclusions I'd reach, I think it would be obvious that I had carefully considered my arguments. My not being a scriptwriter would not make my points any less valid.

<<claps in appreciation>>>

Nice!

suse

[Gregorius]

I know many readers (especially those who just lurk) look at the complaints on this thread and think we have no reason to be so critical because we don't actually write script work.

If I extrapolate this to an extreme it results in an hilarious conclusion: Politicians and citizens have no reason to be critical because they don't actually work with and learned for the fields they decide and protest about. Or in other words, excellent news for the world: Scientists everywhere can start with what would be considered unethical experiments since the people protesting aren't scientists but mere people without any degree. And what about the politicians, people aren't allowed to be critical of their actions as they don't do politics themselves. The same applies, of course, to the military, the police, engineers, etc...

Let me hear three hurrays for that line of thought, as it would make my life so much easier if people who aren't doing what I do aren't allowed to be critical. Oh wait, doesn't this lead to groupthink?

People have every right to be critical of other people even if they don't write scripts, design spacecraft, do brainsurgery, etc... A single critical voice from outside the community is usually exactly what the doctor ordered as it makes a group of like-minded people working on a project taking a step back and check if this criticism is right.

If there are really people who think like that they should apply that logic to other fields and find just how wrong they are...

While not everybody would agree with the conclusions I'd reach, I think it would be obvious that I had carefully considered my arguments. My not being a scriptwriter would not make my points any less valid.

Haven't you heard, careful consideration of arguments is so last year, just as critical thinking is. These days it's all about yelling statements without a single argument. You see when have to consider arguments it implies that you're using that thing between your ears to do something useful and it might lead to conclusions that go against the concensus and we wouldn't want that, now would we as ignorance is bliss.

[RealmOfX]

If I extrapolate this to an extreme it results in an hilarious conclusion: Politicians and citizens have no reason to be critical because they don't actually work with and learned for the fields they decide and protest about. Or in other words, excellent news for the world: Scientists everywhere can start with what would be considered unethical experiments since the people protesting aren't scientists but mere people without any degree. And what about the politicians, people aren't allowed to be critical of their actions as they don't do politics themselves. The same applies, of course, to the military, the police, engineers, etc...

Let me hear three hurrays for that line of thought, as it would make my life so much easier if people who aren't doing what I do aren't allowed to be critical. Oh wait, doesn't this lead to groupthink?

People have every right to be critical of other people even if they don't write scripts, design spacecraft, do brainsurgery, etc... A single critical voice from outside the community is usually exactly what the doctor ordered as it makes a group of like-minded people working on a project taking a step back and check if this criticism is right.

If there are really people who think like that they should apply that logic to other fields and find just how wrong they are...




Haven't you heard, careful consideration of arguments is so last year, just as critical thinking is. These days it's all about yelling statements without a single argument. You see when have to consider arguments it implies that you're using that thing between your ears to do something useful and it might lead to conclusions that go against the concensus and we wouldn't want that, now would we as ignorance is bliss.

Must be a lot of blissful people around

[Jackie]

you guys are preaching to the choir.

actually, since this thread is considered to the the evil thread of the board...let's say your preaching to other demons.lol.

I've read a number of post on different threads that refer to us as the joke thread, the over critical thread, the sg-1 haters thread.

now, I also have anti issues with SGA but I find I cannot really post on that thread do to the amount of "I only hate Sam because they replaced Weir." post, instead actually discussing what is wrong with the show. so I end up placing those issues here or sometimes on a different SGA thread.

There really isn't a real discussion on how they changed Sam's character, how come they should have been able to keep both actresses, what they are doing to sheps character. How come there is such a high cast turn over. How tptb purposely PO the fan base to get them to write letters to skiffy to make sure the higher ups see the Atlantis name...which I have concluded is a ploy to get renewed at everyone else's expense. (The expense of the fan's time and postage and the expense of the actor's jobs.) The problems with not closing plot holes, leaving fans out hanging and never deeming what happened to old characters. And above all, the lack of the stargate itself.

We can't talk about that here because this is the wrong thread and the anti-thread for season 4 is merely the "I hate carter/keller" thread and even know there is a anit-carter thread...they won't use it.

So, I come here and beat to death a dead horse called season 9 and 10 aka season 1 and 2 of stargate command.

[suse]

you guys are preaching to the choir.

actually, since this thread is considered to the the evil thread of the board...let's say your preaching to other demons.lol.

I've read a number of post on different threads that refer to us as the joke thread, the over critical thread, the sg-1 haters thread.

now, I also have anti issues with SGA but I find I cannot really post on that thread do to the amount of "I only hate Sam because they replaced Weir." post, instead actually discussing what is wrong with the show. so I end up placing those issues here or sometimes on a different SGA thread.

There really isn't a real discussion on how they changed Sam's character, how come they should have been able to keep both actresses, what they are doing to sheps character. How come there is such a high cast turn over. How tptb purposely PO the fan base to get them to write letters to skiffy to make sure the higher ups see the Atlantis name...which I have concluded is a ploy to get renewed at everyone else's expense. (The expense of the fan's time and postage and the expense of the actor's jobs.) The problems with not closing plot holes, leaving fans out hanging and never deeming what happened to old characters. And above all, the lack of the stargate itself.

We can't talk about that here because this is the wrong thread and the anti-thread for season 4 is merely the "I hate carter/keller" thread and even know there is a anit-carter thread...they won't use it.

So, I come here and beat to death a dead horse called season 9 and 10 aka season 1 and 2 of stargate command.

Understood. I feel much the same, but <<shrug>> I'm not *nearly* the SGA fan I am of Classic SG-1 so have much less to rant *or* rave about.

Though I really doubt they are manipulating the stories to get that kind of fan response. Or S10 would have been more more equitable than it was compared to S9.

suse

[Jackie]

Understood. I feel much the same, but <<shrug>> I'm not *nearly* the SGA fan I am of Classic SG-1 so have much less to rant *or* rave about.

Though I really doubt they are manipulating the stories to get that kind of fan response. Or S10 would have been more more equitable than it was compared to S9.

suse

of the two series...given the choice of old stargate repeat or new SGA...would take old Stargate repeat prior to 9 and 10. Never really did get into SGA before and season 3 was bad IMO...I had hopes for the series the first two new eps and was hoping that Wier would become a very interesting and complex arc....but that fizzled out like old moldy soda pop.

I think my biggest complaint about SGA is how tptb use the fan base and the actors to save their own jobs. They kind of back stab those around them and then expect a nice fat raise (I would guess) and job security for another year.

It never happened on early SG-1. When Daniel left--MS did so on his own. When Fraiser was killed the actress wouldn't be available to come back--she had another gig.

When Hammond left, DD did so on his own as well.

Jacob was written out on what was supposed to be the last season. No one was supposed to come back and Sam was supposed to go to SGA then.

MS never expressed interest in going to SGA full time...maybe for a guest spot or two. CJ would probably take a full time position if offered and he would most likely be an influence is MS were to go the series.

I really felt bad for Ben B. he was handed a raw deal, hired to fill RDA's shoes but only really hired for the Farscape fan base and not for his talent. If they really let him stretch his acting wings he could have made a great addition. Of course, that would mean placing effort into the story arc too.

I have mixed feeling for CB...she only got to be in one season, but her character was just so off the wall I didn't care for Vala at all in the series. If Vala was brought back re-occuring and remained a non trusting thief, I would have liked her better. For that matter, she became a Goa'uld I would have liked her better.

I felt like tptb really have had the Wraith find Earth. It gives new meaning to the term population control.

A wraith colony in the milky way, stalking and hunting humans would have been more interesting than the Bori anyways.

[jckfan55]

you guys are preaching to the choir.

actually, since this thread is considered to the the evil thread of the board...let's say your preaching to other demons.lol.

I've read a number of post on different threads that refer to us as the joke thread, the over critical thread, the sg-1 haters thread.

I guess I'm a "demon" then. I figure the point of this thread is to vent here. I don't spread my "hate" elsewhere. I don't go into the threads that love S9 & 10--why would I?

I've never been a major Atlantis fan--I like it, but not the way I like SG1--so I don't get that worked up about it.