S10: Critique & Contemplation

[jckfan55]

Which just goes to show what an idiot Landry was for putting him in charge. And if our big 3 were in character, they would have been putting Cam straight and not join his 'team' they would have formed their own team and left Cam begging to join.

I would have been a lot more accepting of Cam the hothead if he was under Sam's command & we saw his settling in under her leadership. Maybe he got the post b/c of some strings being pulled on his behalf (that he didn't know about) and he had to prove himself to the team.

The thing is even fighter pilots aren't all about themselves--they don't leave their wingman high & dry to go off glory seeking and last long. By any stretch of the imagination Cam should have shown more judgment regardless of his lack of ground experience.

On the "girl not wanting command" issue. In that episode where Sam was left in charge of the SGC (title?) and she refuses to sit in Landry's chair--I took it as she was a bit uncomfortable sitting in the general's chair, but not uncomfortable in command. She seemed in charge to me. She brushed off Vala's comments about a woman in the chair as I recall. and re: Atlantis as far as I recall Sam

Spoiler:

expressed some hesitation with Teal'c, not about her ability to command, but about leaving SG1 in the lurch.

That seemed in character to me.

[suse]

Yea, it did make it sound like Mitchell was up there defending SG1 ALL BY HIMSELF there were no other 'ships' around being blown out of the air...

Right. Where are all the other pilots who covered SG-1 and got shot down/hurt? Or were skilled enough to cover SG-1 *without* getting shot down/hurt*. Did they get the CMoH? Did they get their choice of posts (even if those posts didn't fall within their training perview)?

I just find it amusing (not really)that Da Hewo had to be hurt saving SG-1 to facilitate his addition (and acceptance hehehehehe /sarcasm) to the team. Still doesn't explain the leadership part though.

I really wanna hear Coop's thought process on why Mitchell got lead. And grill him about it. We know he was Major Mitchell in early drafts. But then Sam had the Apollo in those drafts, still leaving him Da Hewo but at least not demoting her.

Still doesn't explain why Anise was "HaHa! Our fans were too smart to accept her" and Vala was "Sexy" and "Fun". If you call sexual harassment/"whorelette"ing** 'sexy and fun' I feel sad for you. Among other emotions.

* Note: I am *not* saying real pilots that get shot down are unskilled. Far from it. Things happen.

** The quoted part is a direct quote from Claudia Black attributed to her by the commentators on the S9 ep where they went looking for family jewels - and Vala apparently got more than one set. My word was not so nice...

suse

[ReganX]

The original SG-1 somehow complemented each other and, to me at least, it really did look like a team.

Seasons 9 & 10 did not bring Mitchell, or Vala, into that 'team feeling' for me. Instead, The Team was destroyed and then the pieces were mish-mashed back together... and some pieces (Jackson) were distorted to fit into the new puzzle. The New Team didn't click when it was working from the ashes of two contemporaneous scifi shows (FarGate/FarceGate).

The team was deliberately and unnecessarily split up, and I don’t think that it has ever recovered from that. Look at the beginning of Season Nine;

• Daniel is desperate to go to Atlantis. He is ready to leave the SGC behind.
• Teal’c is with his people, helping them build their nation. He is where he wants to be.
• Sam is at Area 51. Admittedly, we were never told why she left SG-1, aside from a throwaway line about Cassie that smacks of an excuse rather than a reason, especially given the timing Sam has been gone from the SGC a week! And Sam is speaking of Cassie’s problems in the past tense. Are we seriously expected to believe that Cassie had problems that were serious enough for her to need Sam to leave the SGC (instead of taking a leave of absence) but that those problems were magically fixed in under a week, during which time Sam seems to have been very busy?

Thus we begin with a situation where two-thirds of the existing SG-1 have left voluntarily, to begin new lives of their choice. With regard to Sam, we don’t know, but it’s a lose-lose situation. Either she is at Area 51 of her own choice and is being dragged back and insulted with the position of second-in-command or, at best, co-commander of the team she led perfectly well by herself, or, if she didn’t want to leave the SGC for Area 51, it begs the question of why she was transferred away, especially given the timing.

I suppose we were expected to be dismayed by the prospect of the team splitting up and eternally grateful to Mitchell for ‘getting the band back together’ but that fell flat, for me at any rate.

Firstly, it was painfully obvious that the only reason that the ‘band’ had been split up in the first place was to force that ridiculous farce of a new character into the mix and restructure the team around him and, secondly, they went to great pains to establish that the original team members had left because they wanted to – given that, it is hardly a good reflection on Mitchell that he disobeys Landry’s order to choose his team, rejecting all the available candidates because they’re simply not good enough to work with the Hewo-Who-Got-An-Owie-And-Is-Therefore-The-Bestest-Person-Who-Ever-Graced-The-SGC-With-His-Hewoic-Pwesence, and instead spends his time pestering them to change their minds like a spoiled five year old pouting because the cool kids aren’t playing with him.

When Daniel and Vala’s inability to lie low brings the galaxy to the attention of the Ori, Sam is dragged back from Area 51, and Teal’c and Daniel stick around to help clean up the mess that the latter helped create and the ‘band’ – complete with idiotic groupie-turned-lead singer – is back together, but it’s not the same. Mitchell is the only one who wants to be there, the others had all moved on and are being brought back out of necessity, not choice. Essentially, you have a situation where most of the members of SG-1 don’t want to be there.

Of course there’s no ‘team feeling’. Most of them are just there to see the job done, after which they’ll leave SG-1 and return to their lives.

Some of the worst 'gaggers' were when they made episode '200' about celebrating Mitchell. Gag! He should have been someone who got to participate in the party and the festivities, but it should have been a tribute to the original cast, the original 4, their missions, their history and exploits. There should have been fond mention of Janet and Jacob and Hammond.

As far as Mitchell is concerned, I wasn’t surprised that he would make a fuss over his 200th trip through the stargate – frankly, I don’t expect any better from him – but I think that he and Vala should have been kept very much to supporting roles in a 200th episode centering around the original cast. It wasn’t their milestone. Between the two of them, they appeared in a whopping twenty-seven episodes out of the first two hundred (episodes with both count as one). Walter probably has a higher episode count than that!

The Wizard of Oz scene. Many dedicated fans would have loved to see that scene over the past couple of years - but then TPTB raped and destroyed the scene by putting in Mitchell and Vala instead of O'Neill and Carter - who were both there for episode 200. That definitely came across to me as a virtual 'finger' to the longer-term fans. (Here's the New Team - take it or leave it... and we never liked the Original Team anyway, couldn't wait to get rid of them). Pretty ridiculous and insulting to have the Wizard of Oz scene with the 2 newbies when the original 4 were all present. And the Wizard of Oz references made no sense for Stargate Command - it was part of O'Neill's SG-1 tapestry.

Reminds me of the picture in the Guinness Book of Records. I’m going to be perfectly honest – I looked at the picture, saw that it was New Team without any pictures of the original cast, and refused to buy the book.

[suse]

I've read enough military history to know Cambo would have been relieved of command for some of the stunts he pulled.
O'Neill was sometimes insubordinate but didn't pull *stupid* stunts that put his team in danger.

Oh, and on the Antarctica battle and CMOH (bleh), imho Mitchell was simply doing his job like all the other pilots were. Purple Heart, yes. Maybe even another smaller medal, but CMOH, no.

If SG1 "owed" anyone it was *all* the 302 pilots and the crew of the prometheus. they were all fighting to save earth and to do that they had to protect SG1. Actually Hammond was the biggest hero in that battle to me.

Exactly. Hammond shone. And I don't mean his bald head. I lurve Hammond.

[jckfan55]

Say what you will about Voyager--at least the captain was the captain. They didn't feel the need to give her a lame co-command. People did accept a woman in charge for 7 years. And I think they would have accepted Sam in charge of 3 men too in S9 & 10 if RCC & maybe the network weren't Neanderthals. After all, we *knew* Sam as a capable officer.

I continue to be amazed when I watch favorite old episodes and see RCC's name as the writer and then think of what a hash he made of things as show runner.

[ReganX]

Yea, it did make it sound like Mitchell was up there defending SG1 ALL BY HIMSELF there were no other 'ships' around being blown out of the air...

Yep - and if you want to get technical about it, the pilots who managed not to get themselves shot down and who continued fighting did more to defend SG-1 than Mitchell did.

[ReganX]

Say what you will about Voyager--at least the captain was the captain. They didn't feel the need to give her a lame co-command.

True, even when the Voyager crew merged with the crew of the Val Jean, the captain of that ship didn't become co-commander of Voyager. He became Janeway's first officer.

People did accept a woman in charge for 7 years. And I think they would have accepted Sam in charge of 3 men too in S9 & 10 if RCC & maybe the network weren't Neanderthals. After all, we *knew* Sam as a capable officer.

I would say that the vast majority of the fans would have had no problems whatsoever accepting Sam in command in Seasons Nine and Ten - and if TPTB believed that there would be some who would object to a female commander, I would say that they had a moral responsibility to keep Sam in command and show that they weren't going to bow to sexism.

[ReganX]

lol, i guess TPTB figured if they put a good looking guy from a popular sci-fi series in that role it didn't matter what backstory they gave him.

Was 'Farscape' more popular or longer-lasting that 'Stargate: SG-1'?

What on Earth could possibly have made the Stargate PTB think that the fans of their show would rather see the actors from another show promoted ahead of the actors they had been watching on SG-1 for eight years?

[Rogue]

The better to forcefeed Mitchell and the fact that he's in command.

See, Sam likes him. She doesn't mind that he's in command and not her... is there a vomiting smilie?

It's like Walter's awed description of Mitchell, Daniel saying that they all "owe" Mitchell, the CMOH, and so on - another way of driving home Mitchell's gweatness, and the fact that he "deserves" his place on SG-1. Unfortunately for TPTB - and fortunately for me because I would have been very frightened otherwise - a lot of fans saw through this bull and it wound up hurting Mitchell more than helping him.

I am surprised he didn't walkin in with a red cape and "S" on his chest.

The bowing down to Mitchells greatness in his intro turned me off on the character.

[ReganX]

I am surprised he didn't walkin in with a red cape and "S" on his chest.

The bowing down to Mitchells greatness in his intro turned me off on the character.

I'm not surprised. All that was missing was a fanfare and a legion of swooning women.

[suse]

Say what you will about Voyager--at least the captain was the captain. They didn't feel the need to give her a lame co-command. People did accept a woman in charge for 7 years.

Even if they made her the captain of a ship named after a minivan...

And I think they would have accepted Sam in charge of 3 men too in S9 & 10 if RCC & maybe the network weren't Neanderthals. After all, we *knew* Sam as a capable officer.

But she carries her reproductive organs in the wrong place. No "See how big mine is" comparisons... Not enough testosterone.

I continue to be amazed when I watch favorite old episodes and see RCC's name as the writer and then think of what a hash he made of things as show runner.

I'm thinking Brad gave all the scripts a pass - especially the technobabble filled ones - before filming and RDA had them change some over the top stuff on the spot. I know he stopped the Too Much stuff about Siler always getting hurt.

With Brad on SGA stuff on SG-1 started slacking. Then with RDA gone stuff snowballed in a massive way.

You know, I'd thought for months that we were giving Cooper too much of a hard time, that it couldn't *all* be him. Now I'm not so sure. That interview Brad gave when they were filming AoT where he mentions he and RDA shared the same sensibilities and it being the small stuff that can make a show screams common sense. Then we have S9. And by extension S10 and (apparently - I've not seen it) AoT goes the same way.

Doesn't explain some early decisions about SGA, but that's a topic for another thread.

suse

[suse]

Was 'Farscape' more popular or longer-lasting that 'Stargate: SG-1'?

What on Earth could possibly have made the Stargate PTB think that the fans of their show would rather see the actors from another show promoted ahead of the actors they had been watching on SG-1 for eight years?

Didn't you know? All sci-fi fans love all sci-fi stuff. We are non-discriminating. And really, who wouldn't want a handsome male lead over a *woman* FCOL. And shouldn't woman worthyh of the most screen time spew sexual harassing diatribe and wearing porn star clothing? /sarcasm

I liked some of the other show. But not the potty humor that comprised more and more of it as the seasons went on. TBH I also liked the secondary characters more than the leads. Yet who do we get on takes over SG-1? <sigh>

suse

[EnterTheWormhole]

Well, I've always thought that Mitchell was a poor replacement for Jack (if O'Neill can indeed be truly replaced.)

Ironically, "Graduation," the series finale for KP (which I thought was a better closer for that series than "Unending" was for SG-1), while at first thought might negate the possibility of a SG-1/KP crossover, actually might give the SGC a chance to do some cleaning up.

Spoiler:

In said KP episode, aliens (namely, the Lorwardians) invade Earth and make a mess until Kim and co. save the day.

So, where's all of Earth's defenses, if KP and SG-1 cross over? Well, the starships were all out fighting the remnants of the Ori (and the Apollo is coming home from Pegasus or something, if the crossover breaks with SG continuity after "Unending"), all Earth's planetbound 302s were undergoing Asgard weapons modifications, and the was a cave-in or something at Antarctica.

The IOC naturally blames O'Neill for all of this, and hence he is demoted back to Colonel.

Mitchell has been "promoted" to full Colonel as well in this scenario, but he's been sent off to command the Alpha Site (or whatever that site is these days), where it's been deemed he'll do the least damage. Vala's pherome thingys (you know, what Hathor had) have been discovered, and said Mal Doren is in custody. Hammond is called back from retirement (IMHO he's probably decided that you can never really retire once you're involved with the Stargate), but I'm not sure who'd fill his seat at Homeworld Sec. or the SGC, since I don't think he can be both at the same time (maybe Dr. Director (KP character), since this scenario is a crossover with Kim Possible..)

Heck, I'd be writing/have written a fanfic about this were my fiction writing skills not extremely below par...

[RealmOfX]

Chill out! There's a reason why Sam is in command of Atlantis now and not Cam, and it's not just Amanda's popularity - Sam's simply much more convincing in a leading role than Cammie. I hated that scene also - where is the Sam who in "Lost City" relieved Jack of command and ordered him to take a look at the planet were they found the ZPM???

Chill out???? Why? I haven't even got up on my soapbox yet
(and I don't intend to)

Anyone who has been around GW for a while knows that I am a reformed WSL'er (check out the old Who Should Lead thread) and there's nothing that gets me more hot under the collar than portraying a supposed good officer as a git. Especially when they put the git in charge over every other qualified and available and trained and experienced officer in the SGC in direct contradiction of plain logic and common sense and established canon.


As for the inherent sexism that seemed to arrive with the advent of RCC becoming a showrunner, well I'll leave that for another day as it's way past my bedtime.

[MediaSavant]

Chill out! There's a reason why Sam is in command of Atlantis now and not Cam, and it's not just Amanda's popularity

I don't think the reason is what you think it is.

I'm not sure Carter's moving to Atlantis has been particularly positive for the actress or the character. She's still #2 in the credits and, if anything, Carter has even less to do on screen than she did on SG-1.

It's not clear to me, based on what I've seen, that it's really any better than Season 10 or the current movie.