S10: Critique & Contemplation

[suse]

AT said in an interview that the original script had Cam leading that mission. AT went to RCC and told him Sam should be leading because of the reasons you stated. So, if not for AT, Stronghold would have been even worse than it was.

Mike

In the Illustrated Guide to SG-1 (S9) the person who wrote it apparently went by the script, because it says Da Hewo led the mission, not Sam.

suse

[AGateFan]

In the Illustrated Guide to SG-1 (S9) the person who wrote it apparently went by the script, because it says Da Hewo led the mission, not Sam.

suse

He was leader eh? In that ep (and some others actually) Cam reminds me of some really bad AI teammates I have had in video games. I am sitting back coming up with a strategy to snipe some more powerful enemies to get their numbers down so we may actually be successful on a charge, while the AI guy just runs ahead and gets himself killed.....or worse he jumps in front of me and gets shot and then the game smacks my hand for friendly fire .

Why the heck would you be reading the illustrated guide to S9? I still cannot believe how badly SG-1 has fallen. I still can't believe my once favorite show makes me so aggravated when I think of it. I loved SG-1 I just hated the rotting undead zombie it became after S8.

Maybe it has lessened my critical eye though because now I am enjoying Atlantis, but I try to talk about it at work and the people there all think Atlantis is not doing so great this year.

It's odd. Its odd going into the Atlantis threads and being positive knowing all the people that said I never said a positive thing because of how much I dislike S9-S10. It's odd to look at the people that flat out hate S4 of Atlantis and try to compare what they hate of Atlantis to what I hate of SG-1. It's even a little hard not to tell them their wrong and tell them the good things of Atlantis...so I can understand why people who like the crp of S9-S10 do it to me....well kind of, I said its "a little hard" not THAT hard, its actually quite easy to stay out of Anti threads or to not comment on them when I do go into them.

In any case I have taken what I have learned from the Atlantis threads and tried to hate S9-s10 less.....but I just can’t do it, it was crp, Crp, CRp, CRRRRRRRRRPPPPPP. Fan fic, Mary Sue, discarding of everything that made SG-1 special CRP. I would go into all the reasons why just so I am not one of those "it just sucks" people. But there are many many reasons for why it was such utter Crp which have been discussed in great detail in this thread and I am sure I will bring up stuff in the future (inexperience fool put in charge of SG-1, slaver\criminal bouncing around the base in tight cloths sexually harassing as everyone just smiles and nodes, Daniel going away in favor of JACKSON. Carter and Teal'c who? Lam and her lame relationship with Landry [who may be nice and all but who is himself an apparent fool]) but I am sure bringing this up will just make this post longer then it is....so for now I will just say S9-S10 was crp, it was AU in my opinion and it is best forgotten if they EVER want Stargate franchise to reclaim its fame. So far all of Carters references on SGA have been about classic SG-1 and I hope it stays that way. I hope never to see a pic of Cam or Vala or Landry or Lam on her desk or I will hurl.... would like a Frasier and Hammond though......

thanks I feel better now.

[Rogue]

He was leader eh? In that ep (and some others actually) Cam reminds me of some really bad AI teammates I have had in video games. I am sitting back coming up with a strategy to snipe some more powerful enemies to get their numbers down so we may actually be successful on a charge, while the AI guy just runs ahead and gets himself killed.....or worse he jumps in front of me and gets shot and then the game smacks my hand for friendly fire .

Why the heck would you be reading the illustrated guide to S9? I still cannot believe how badly SG-1 has fallen. I still can't believe my once favorite show makes me so aggravated when I think of it. I loved SG-1 I just hated the rotting undead zombie it became after S8.

Maybe it has lessened my critical eye though because now I am enjoying Atlantis, but I try to talk about it at work and the people there all think Atlantis is not doing so great this year.

It's odd. Its odd going into the Atlantis threads and being positive knowing all the people that said I never said a positive thing because of how much I dislike S9-S10. It's odd to look at the people that flat out hate S4 of Atlantis and try to compare what they hate of Atlantis to what I hate of SG-1. It's even a little hard not to tell them their wrong and tell them the good things of Atlantis...so I can understand why people who like the crp of S9-S10 do it to me....well kind of, I said its "a little hard" not THAT hard, its actually quite easy to stay out of Anti threads or to not comment on them when I do go into them.
In any case I have taken what I have learned from the Atlantis threads and tried to hate S9-s10 less.....but I just can’t do it, it was crp, Crp, CRp, CRRRRRRRRRPPPPPP. Fan fic, Mary Sue, discarding of everything that made SG-1 special CRP. I would go into all the reasons why just so I am not one of those "it just sucks" people. But there are many many reasons for why it was such utter Crp which have been discussed in great detail in this thread and I am sure I will bring up stuff in the future (inexperience fool put in charge of SG-1, slaver\criminal bouncing around the base in tight cloths sexually harassing as everyone just smiles and nodes, Daniel going away in favor of JACKSON. Carter and Teal'c who? Lam and her lame relationship with Landry [who may be nice and all but who is himself an apparent fool]) but I am sure bringing this up will just make this post longer then it is....so for now I will just say S9-S10 was crp, it was AU in my opinion and it is best forgotten if they EVER want Stargate franchise to reclaim its fame. So far all of Carters references on SGA have been about classic SG-1 and I hope it stays that way. I hope never to see a pic of Cam or Vala or Landry or Lam on her desk or I will hurl.... would like a Frasier and Hammond though......

thanks I feel better now.

I have experienced the same thing over in the Atlantis Threads. Its hard now the shoe is on the other foot. From my POV, I thought S3 wasn't very good and so far S4 is a vast improvement. It seems that JM and crew are trying to avoid the same issues that drugged SG-1 down. I have read the post on the Anti-S4 thread trying to understand their issues. Frankly I don't get it because I don't think Atlantis has plunged to the depths of crap that SG-1 did in S9/10. But who am I to tell them they are wrong? Until recently I have ony considered Atlantis as the show that followed SG-1.

[silkie]

I have experienced the same thing over in the Atlantis Threads. Its hard now the shoe is on the other foot. From my POV, I thought S3 wasn't very good and so far S4 is a vast improvement. It seems that JM and crew are trying to avoid the same issues that drugged SG-1 down. I have read the post on the Anti-S4 thread trying to understand their issues. Frankly I don't get it because I don't think Atlantis has plunged to the depths of crap that SG-1 did in S9/10. But who am I to tell them they are wrong? Until recently I have ony considered Atlantis as the show that followed SG-1.

This is a bit off-topic but for me it's re-vamping the show and season 9-10 all over again. I'm still against Sam coming over to Atlantis, but I have to say so far it's been done much more tastefully than bringing over Cam to SG-1. Still I'll miss Weir to bits...

[Mandysg1]

I have experienced the same thing over in the Atlantis Threads. Its hard now the shoe is on the other foot. From my POV, I thought S3 wasn't very good and so far S4 is a vast improvement. It seems that JM and crew are trying to avoid the same issues that drugged SG-1 down. I have read the post on the Anti-S4 thread trying to understand their issues. Frankly I don't get it because I don't think Atlantis has plunged to the depths of crap that SG-1 did in S9/10. But who am I to tell them they are wrong? Until recently I have ony considered Atlantis as the show that followed SG-1.

I'm in the same boat as you and and AGateFan, being on the Pro side of S4. I was afraid they were going to do the same as what was done in S9 and 10 but to my surprise they didn't. With Cam they brought in the new character who had no experience and no business being on an SG team and made him leader and tried to have him take over the show, relegating the rest of the main cast (Sam and Teal'c) as wallpaper.

With Sam, she was also brought in to fill a void, but she makes sense, she has the experience and they brought her in slowly, and I have not seen her take over the show, it's still the main four characters with Sam providing the support her character as the leader of Atlantis needs to give.

But I am still confused about being Anti here and Pro there

[Skydiver]

you can't tell folks that they're wrong. You just let them be.

they like what they like, we dislike what we dislike.

and let's just let them be please. I know that we didn't like folks talking about us and not understanding how we felt the way we felt, so just let them be please

[ReganX]

i was never a huge fan of daniel, simply because i couldn't get into that 'poor civilian surrounded by the mean military' mindset that many had about him. My emotional connections were with Sam and then with Jack.

To be honest, I never got where the idea of Daniel as a poor, vulnerable civilian who needed to be protected came from. At one point, I got bored and read a couple of Daniel-centered fanfics and I must have had some absolutely lousy luck when it came to picking them because based on his portrayal there, I half-expected him to start carrying around a blankie and sucking his thumb. The character in the stories was nothing like the guy on the show.

(a) If Daniel did, indeed, require protection from his teammates then he had no business being on a frontline team and it was nothing short of irresponsible for Hammond to allow him to be on SG-1.
(b) Aside from the Little Orphan Daniel standing forlornly in the rain bit at the beginning of the movie, Daniel has never struck me as being needy or fragile – in fact, I would say that he’s always been more than capable of standing up for himself and his opinions.

[Jackie]

I think the most upsetting part about the changes in SGA are the cast changes. They lost two well liked actors/characters.

IMO season 4 is far better than season 3 but I can't help but wonder if the improvement came too late to save the show from the old ax.

I think with the combo of Season 3 and 10 failures, the loss if good programming over all on the channel and the break up of the one schedules that really worked--SG-1,SGA,BSG--the show will still suffer in ratings due to too many people being turned off in the past.

When they broke up the line up and canceled SG-1 I think many viewers went to other networks to find something else.

They put DR. Who on last year with Stargate and even though they are all sci-fi type shows Dr. Who will appeal to those who understand and enjoy British humor. I like the concept of Dr. Who but not all the British humor in it so I find it a turn off.

Skiffy screwing with the fri-line up did the MOST damage IMHO because people began to rearrange their schedules to make sure they could watch the big three. When I heard they were breaking that up my first thought was, "I guess I can go out again on fri for dinner."

I feel the damage is done and SGA will only be renewed if the price is right.

[Skydiver]

daniel - as a character - is probably the strongest of them all.

he was raised all over the world, so has a widely based cultural upbringing. he was home schooled by his parents - inferred that i don't see him going to school while they're on digs in the middle of nowhere. once his parents were killed, he was rejected by Nick and fell into the child care system. This is probably his one big weakness, a lack of emotional connections to anyone. He's very self reliable and self aware. In other words, he can takecare of himself and really isn't dependant on others.

he has a mental and moral fortitude to speak up about his wacked out theories, even though he knows that they're gonna get him ridicule.

Mentally and physicaly he's strong. And i don't equate strong to muscles. his largest weakness is his lack of family and emotional ties. however, some can see those as a strength since it's a freedom to go wherever he needs to go without anyone really noticing.

Daniel, the delicate 98 pound weakling that is innocent as a 3 year old and caring as a nun is fanon, pure and simple. IMHO, the character was warped to facilitate 'poor me' syndrome to keep daniel the victin. Cause, see as long as he's a victim, he's blameless. Victims are never wrong and never responsible.

[jckfan55]

AT said in an interview that the original script had Cam leading that mission. AT went to RCC and told him Sam should be leading because of the reasons you stated. So, if not for AT, Stronghold would have been even worse than it was.

Mike

Yee gads! The military advisor was probably pounding on his closet door at that--put someone other than the one who planned the mission (and had no knowledge of it) in charge? And the *leader* running off and leaving his team behind. Little did AT know, she made Cam look slightly less bad by insisting on some semblence of proper protocol re: who leads the mission.

[Jackie]

Yee gads! The military advisor was probably pounding on his closet door at that--put someone other than the one who planned the mission (and had no knowledge of it) in charge? And the *leader* running off and leaving his team behind. Little did AT know, she made Cam look slightly less bad by insisting on some semblence of proper protocol re: who leads the mission.

Cammie is a 14 year old's Marty Stu--of course he will run off on his own and save day single handedly! What Marty Stu wouldn't do that? LOL.

he's a wanna be Indianan Jones...but Indy is smarter.

The only thing that would have made him even more of a Mart Stu was if Jack O'Neill was his daddy or uncle and he worshiped old McGyver re-runs.

[Rogue]

Cammie is a 14 year old's Marty Stu--of course he will run off on his own and save day single handedly! What Marty Stu wouldn't do that? LOL.

he's a wanna be Indianan Jones...but Indy is smarter.

The only thing that would have made him even more of a Mart Stu was if Jack O'Neill was his daddy or uncle and he worshiped old McGyver re-runs.

bite your tongue.

[poundpuppy29]

daniel - as a character - is probably the strongest of them all.

he was raised all over the world, so has a widely based cultural upbringing. he was home schooled by his parents - inferred that i don't see him going to school while they're on digs in the middle of nowhere. once his parents were killed, he was rejected by Nick and fell into the child care system. This is probably his one big weakness, a lack of emotional connections to anyone. He's very self reliable and self aware. In other words, he can takecare of himself and really isn't dependant on others.

he has a mental and moral fortitude to speak up about his wacked out theories, even though he knows that they're gonna get him ridicule.

Mentally and physicaly he's strong. And i don't equate strong to muscles. his largest weakness is his lack of family and emotional ties. however, some can see those as a strength since it's a freedom to go wherever he needs to go without anyone really noticing.

Daniel, the delicate 98 pound weakling that is innocent as a 3 year old and caring as a nun is fanon, pure and simple. IMHO, the character was warped to facilitate 'poor me' syndrome to keep daniel the victin. Cause, see as long as he's a victim, he's blameless. Victims are never wrong and never responsible.

I can't green you but thanks for the Daniel analysis I agree with you why I love Daniel is he is emotional and why he values all of SG-1 past and present they are his family the closest thing he has to one they are the ones who he has the emotional connections to he tresures them he knows that not everyone will care but they do.

You all were talking about Bounty before it was least favorite ep of season 10 I really hated it. It had no real redeeming qualties for me I didn't like how they had Vala she was no longer the girl that had to dress that way I really felt like they regressed Vala. The Daniel bits were kinda ok and Teal'c was kinda ok but I really felt sorry for BB that whole thing with Amy was horrible just the whole ep's story did not work for me. Sam was ok but I really hated the ep the ep Bad Guys after it was better for a funny ep the only thing that was missing was Sam I wish she was struggling to be a bad guy right along with Daniel. They don't let Sam be funny very often.

Hope I didn't offend anyone I have Anti couches for you

[Vale_Sg1]

But I am still confused about being Anti here and Pro there

Not quite so confusing for me. In fact, it helped me put things into perspective, or I wouldn't be here otherwise.

daniel - as a character - is probably the strongest of them all.

Too bad that in S9 and 10 the writers decided to switch from psychological strength to the Action Jackson figure we all (most unfortunately) know.

I myself was drawn to Sam for most of the series, she was one of my tv role models in my early teens. I started looking at Daniel differently when I was older, my own person, and I wasn't searching for a model to follow anymore, but for someone to share my interests. Daniel fit the role perfectly.

All members of SG1 have had a challenging life when it came to personal relationships and loss of loved ones. Daniel, Teal'c and Jack all came in with bad memories, and Sam has had the chance to build her own in her early years on SG1. Vala's (rather dark) past has been spun in a most obnoxious way to favor the cheap humor, but I recall a time when being host to a Goa'uld wasn't that funny. All we know about Cam's past is that his mother looks like Martha Kent and makes a great pie (or did I miss something? I didn't watch all of S9)

I'm afraid Cam Mitchell is everything Browder didn't want John Chricton to be. *sighs*

poundpuppy, you should warn them that the SGA antis are known to hang around these particular couches quite often. *takes her usual place on the couch and sits back*

[Mandysg1]

poundpuppy, you should warn them that the SGA antis are known to hang around these particular couches quite often. *takes her usual place on the couch and sits back*

Thanks for the warning, but we already know that