S10: Critique & Contemplation

[nell]

Well, I just watched Endgame tonight. My first repeat since it originally aired. I wasn't excited about this Earth-bound episode at the time. Since Jack became General the episodes were less action and adventure. But, after viewing Seasons 9 & 10 without Jack, even Endgame is more entertaining. It's cause Jack's in the show. I.Miss.Jack!!! I miss the Classic SG-1 Team dynamic!!! IMHO, Cam and Vala failed to develop the chemistry with Sam, Teal'c and Daniel. It's about the people after all.

[Skydiver]

and i think that's an issue. they didn't cast for chemistry, they stunt casted. they cast for fan base.

(and i'm not dissing ben or claudia. they are both talented, however cam is stuck in the Hewoic rut adn vala's surgically attached to daniel so....little to no development there)

and then they did nothing to develop any chemistry between the characters because coop was too focused on all things Ori adn telling that story to stop and realize that if we dont' like the storytellers, or are bored by them, we dont' give a fig about what they're saying.

[suse]

What's happened here? Dec. 2 is the last post.

Oh, I think it'll pick up again when more of us have seen more of S10. Wow. I. Cannot. Wait. /sarcasm

Suse

[Mandysg1]

and i think that's an issue. they didn't cast for chemistry, they stunt casted. they cast for fan base.

(and i'm not dissing ben or claudia. they are both talented, however cam is stuck in the Hewoic rut adn vala's surgically attached to daniel so....little to no development there)

and then they did nothing to develop any chemistry between the characters because coop was too focused on all things Ori adn telling that story to stop and realize that if we dont' like the storytellers, or are bored by them, we dont' give a fig about what they're saying.

Too bad you couldn't take that wet noodle of doom after coop

[nell]

and i think that's an issue. they didn't cast for chemistry, they stunt casted. they cast for fan base.

(and i'm not dissing ben or claudia. they are both talented, however cam is stuck in the Hewoic rut adn vala's surgically attached to daniel so....little to no development there)

and then they did nothing to develop any chemistry between the characters because coop was too focused on all things Ori adn telling that story to stop and realize that if we dont' like the storytellers, or are bored by them, we dont' give a fig about what they're saying.

Likewise, I have no complaint about Ben and Claudia. Your point is well taken about attempting to build a fan base. The attempt at building a team with Cam and Vala appears contrived and hollow. Ahhhh, I'm starting to cover old complaints again. My original point being that watching Seasons 1-8 after 9 & 10 is like night and day. Ahhhh, now with the cliches!

[Skydiver]

i'm just a silly fan who has issues and is too stupid to appreciate his greatness

And when the folks that make the show have that level of arrogance about their fans, is it any wonder that people stop watching?

there's confidence and there's arrogance. unfortunatly, many of the B@B have more of the latter instead of the former.

[Skydiver]

it seems like, once they cast ben and claudia the feeling was 'oh, well they're both so well known and have such fans who will turn in to watch them, we don't have to worry about making the characters good' and they didn't

they got cocky and lazy and depended too much on the 'fan base included' to stop and realize taht sure, some fans will follow from farscape...but if Cam and Vala suck, they ain't gonna stay.

those crossover fans were taken for granted and teh B@B took the easy way out of not even trying to make cam and vala able to stand on thier own two feet.

and it's been to their detriment

[Uber]

it seems like, once they cast ben and claudia the feeling was 'oh, well they're both so well known and have such fans who will turn in to watch them, we don't have to worry about making the characters good' and they didn't

they got cocky and lazy and depended too much on the 'fan base included' to stop and realize taht sure, some fans will follow from farscape...but if Cam and Vala suck, they ain't gonna stay.

those crossover fans were taken for granted and teh B@B took the easy way out of not even trying to make cam and vala able to stand on thier own two feet.

and it's been to their detriment

Sure.

As far as Ben's concerned, IMHO the PTB decided the show would star "Ben Browder's character"...no real character depth required. No actual core.

Mitchell could never act out of character because he had no real substance or standard setup for him with which to act out of accordance.

I think that they simply figured the throngs would see Ben's gorgeous face, here him spout a few Jack O'Neill/John Crichtonesque lines and be the action hero/team leader and everyone would fall in love with him right then and there and he wouldn't require any real work.

That doesn't really work though for a lead character.

[Rogue]

Well, I just watched Endgame tonight. My first repeat since it originally aired. I wasn't excited about this Earth-bound episode at the time. Since Jack became General the episodes were less action and adventure. But, after viewing Seasons 9 & 10 without Jack, even Endgame is more entertaining. It's cause Jack's in the show. I.Miss.Jack!!! I miss the Classic SG-1 Team dynamic!!! IMHO, Cam and Vala failed to develop the chemistry with Sam, Teal'c and Daniel. It's about the people after all.

Yep, the characters made it a good show. The chemistry is lacking with the new team. The characters are shallow and not well developed. TPTB did a very poor job integrating the new characters into the existing team. Breaking up the team so they could rebuild it under Mitchells command was a bad idea. Landry said Mitchell

Spoiler:

was there to hold the team together. I don't see that. If Mitchell was gone tomorrow, the team would still be there. In fact would they miss him?

If Vala were gone tomorrow, would the team miss her? Neither character has been written to be a asset to the team.

[Rogue]

it seems like, once they cast ben and claudia the feeling was 'oh, well they're both so well known and have such fans who will turn in to watch them, we don't have to worry about making the characters good' and they didn't

they got cocky and lazy and depended too much on the 'fan base included' to stop and realize taht sure, some fans will follow from farscape...but if Cam and Vala suck, they ain't gonna stay.

those crossover fans were taken for granted and teh B@B took the easy way out of not even trying to make cam and vala able to stand on thier own two feet.

and it's been to their detriment

TPTB did a mighty fine job chasing off the classic SG-1 fans too.

[Zoser]

Yep, the characters made it a good show. The chemistry is lacking with the new team. The characters are shallow and not well developed. TPTB did a very poor job integrating the new characters into the existing team. Breaking up the team so they could rebuild it under Mitchells command was a bad idea. Landry said Mitchell

Spoiler:

was there to hold the team together. I don't see that. If Mitchell was gone tomorrow, the team would still be there. In fact would they miss him?

If Vala were gone tomorrow, would the team miss her? Neither character has been written to be a asset to the team.

"If Mitchell was gone tomorrow, the team would still be there. In fact would they miss him?"
Not me!

[Mandysg1]

"If Mitchell was gone tomorrow, the team would still be there. In fact would they miss him?"
Not me!

I know I miss the "team" which has been missing since S9

and I don't see much hope for the future of the franchise if they keep him around

[Skydiver]

he was 'gone' for most of Babylon and no one seemed to care

that's cam's weakness. tptb banked so hard on 'he's played by ben browder, all he has to do is stand htere and everyone will love him' that they never took 15 minutes to develop him beyond the cliched 'white male action hewo'

and then, coop falls for promoting all things Ori and Vaniel that he pretty much ignores cam. CAm is there. he says what he has to say to further the plot. he's played by an actor that likes to do his own stunts, thus tptb abuse him (not meanly) by writing him in the action-y way that takes advantage of ben's willingness and turns cam into a glorified stunt man (who gets bonus points for being plucky).

cam is never fully fleshed out and developed because coop can't see beyond his darling Vaniel and Ori to bother to devote any time to making cam anything BUT a cliche. CAmeron, despite all his medals and grandma quips, has all the depth of a mud puddle.

have we ever dug into what makes him tick? seen any emotion beyond testosterone laced bravado? Is there anything unique about cam that can't be played by any other white male mid 30's actor? any depth? any angst? any idea that any of the other characters even give a fig about him?

coop adores vaniel and the ori, thus vala and daniel are the sole focus of his attention. cam, sam and teal'c are jsut there to facilitate coop's dreams. sam and teal'c have 8+ years of development to stand on, cam has nothing more than a medal that his character can't even WEAR on the screen without breaking federal law and a poorly researched/laid out and devleloped background.

Yu is deeper and he was only in a handful of episodes. Heck, Maybourne had more depth.

cameron is nothing but a good looking cliche, which is a shame because ben has tried so hard and could have brought so much to the show. Instead he dies of neglect because coop can't see beyond his own preferred fantasies to remember that he's not just a writer, he's the show runner, and as such he can't just promote and care for one little aspect of teh show, he's responsible for the whole shooting match. His focus is too narrow, always has been.

and the show has died because of it. Cam is just a victim of coop's tunnel vision

[ReganX]

"If Mitchell was gone tomorrow, the team would still be there. In fact would they miss him?"
Not me!

Neither would I.

In terms of the team, I see them faring just as well - okay, much, much better - without Mitchell. His only role on the team is that of "leader" but by his own admission, he doesn't lead anyone.

It goes to show how poor a character he is when his only role is as leader in name only.

[ReganX]

that's cam's weakness. tptb banked so hard on 'he's played by ben browder, all he has to do is stand htere and everyone will love him' that they never took 15 minutes to develop him beyond the cliched 'white male action hewo'

TPTB should have written Cam exactly as they would have written him had he been played by an unknown actor, both in terms of his role on the show and in terms of his characterization. Having a better known actor, with an existing fanbase, was a safety net of sorts and I think they depended on that too much.