S10: Critique & Contemplation

[DEM]

cam saving sam is just a convenience thing. a way to pump up cam, maybe a way to not use an extra or pay someone else to have a speaking role.

but, Sky, Lt/Capt Marks spoke!

As I said elsewhere, I wouldn't have minded an assist in the save; it's just how everyone else looked that I didn't like.

TeamteamteamteamteamteamteamteamteamteamteamteamTEAMWORK!

frankly i'm just glad that they saved her and that someone actually seeemed happy that sam was alive. given the emotional wasteland htat was season 9, it's a nice change

Heh. But that handshake!

ETA: And just in case gets the idea that I'm just looking for crap to complain about, I want to make clear that this issue of strong, active protagzzZZzz is a consistent one for me. I never liked it when Jacob-Selmac showed up and the SG-1 members ended up standing around with their thumbs up their butts either. So there.

[Skydiver]

oh, that was poor Marks???

the poor guy that's 4 different ranks on two different ships?? or maybe promie and odyssey just both happen to have helm officers of the same name that just happen to each be two different ranks

and yeah, like i said, jack would have let someone else pilot while he did the 'kite eating tree' immitation lurking over their shoulder. Unless of course, while he was out in the 302, he released a grapple or something, flew by sam, let her grab it and he towed her closer to the ship

it was jsut another case of short term thinking. save sam, 'fix' the scene but no one looked at how it'd fit in the long run.

[Melora]

you know, i was thinking....ok, take the eps, but put jack in mitch's place. If jack had come up with the idea to save sam, would people be as irritated.

you know, then i thought, jack would have come up with the idea. but then he woulda handed the reins over to a pilot. just like in serpents venom, he only flew the teltac when jacob told him to. Jack would rather just be the idea guy and let someone else with skills do the job...unless it was a risky 'we could die' job adn then he'd risk his life rather than someone else's.

all in all, it really doesn't bug me that much. in the grand scheme of things, cam flying the ship is nothing compared to his little cambo run when teal'c was kidnapped.

cam saving sam is just a convenience thing. a way to pump up cam, maybe a way to not use an extra or pay someone else to have a speaking role.

frankly i'm just glad that they saved her and that someone actually seeemed happy that sam was alive. given the emotional wasteland htat was season 9, it's a nice change

You're right - Jack might have come up with the idea, but I doubt he would have taken control of the ship from Emerson. I seem to remember him taking a backseat to Ronson when they went out on the Prometheus in Season 6. Ronson said something about him and his crew needing the experience and knowledge so that they could handle the ship and all the situations it would encounter on their own. So why is it different now? Why does Emerson always have to defer to Cam when Cam is aboard? It's just weird.

The fact that Cam came up with the idea did not bother me at all. In fact, him taking over the ship didn't really upset me a lot either. He probably served part of the time on the Prommie when he was an F-302 pilot and maybe he has knowledge about the bigger ships. But it did seem strange and out of place with Emerson (a superior officer and commander of the ship) sitting right there. It sort of knocked me out of the show for a few seconds and made me say to myself, 'What's up with that?'

It was very nice to see the emotions between the characters as they were reunited and I hope they continue to show that. I would still like to see more than a look, or a touch, or a couple of words between the characters to show they care for each other. From what AT said at Shore Leave, we know there won't be much of that kind of thing between the three original characters this season. But maybe there'll be more team interaction and interaction between the newer and older characters. I guess we'll see.

I guess my main problem is this - TPTB are telling and showing us how bad and evil and technologically superior the Ori are. And I believe that. But if that is the case, why don't I care?

[esoap524]

is it just me, or is Sam getting much more...freaked out this season? not for logical reasons either. it seems like she's lost that strong face and replaced it with more emotional expressions. before she was subtle, now she's cringing at everything. personal space between the characters has shrunk as well (latter just an observation).

Heh...ironically, as I watched this show with a roomful of people, one of whom has watched since day 1 (Children of the Gods), one who hasn't seen Stargate since it was a feature film, one who watches for Ben, and one who hates it in spite of Ben...to a person they all thought Sam had no reaction at all.

So, it's just ironic that you thought she was freaking out. I actually thought she was quite in a control for a person who is potentially gonna die since she's out in space with two hours of life support, no way to be transported/beamed back aboard and the only rescue plan something she thinks won't work.

As for emotions and emotional expression--she is is a human being, after all, ten years older and wiser since she joined the team and has been through a lot, not to mention the aforementioned brush with death (floating? in space? limited life support? no readily apparent means of rescue?). She's just witnessed the death and destruction of friends and allies. I'd say it was totally false if she DIDN'T have some emotional responses.

Emotions are a human trait. She never looked overly frightened. She looked relieved when she and Mitchell shook hands, relieved when she heard Daniel's voice, and tried to maintain some optimism in the face of "we just got our asses handed to us."

Sorry, still like Sam Carter, in spite of those moments where she may have actually cringed--I think I did see a cringe out of her when she realized a big-assed space ship was headed her way to scoop her up. go figure.

[kazzyk]

It is S2 dont you know--according to TPTB.

[Simhavaktra]

As I said elsewhere, I wouldn't have minded an assist in the save; it's just how everyone else looked that I didn't like.

Teamteam
teamteamteamteamteamteamteamteam
teamteamTEAMWORK!

Heh. But that handshake!

ETA: And just in case gets the idea that I'm just looking for crap to complain about, I want to make clear that this issue of strong, active protagzzZZzz is a consistent one for me. I never liked it when Jacob-Selmac showed up and the SG-1 members ended up standing around with their thumbs up their butts either. So there.

And I have to agree - it wasn't just the "oooh!!! <<sqee>> Cam can save her! <<clap your hands, boys!>>" image of the script meeting that popped (I'll have you know I typed 'pooped' there first thing - the Freud is with me ) into my fron that really infuriated me about that scene - it's the complete collage of those scenes - IdeaBoy!Cam, IgnoreTheShip'sFullColonelCommander!LieutenantColonelCam, BossTheAsgardOnSomebodyElse'sShip!Cam, JustTakeOverCommandOnSomebodyElse'sShipWhyDon'tYou!Cam, TakeOverTheHelmFromTheOfficialHelmsman!Cam, Don'tLookAtAllTheApplicableTelemetry!Cam, Don'tAskForInputWhenDoingSomethingVeryDangerous!Cam, Don'tGiveTheRescueeAChoice!Cam -

The Odyssey is a newer ship of a different design than the Prometheus. If Cam was ever qualified to fly the really difficult and precise maneuvers on the Prommie, when did he get qualified on the Odyssey? With its different (designed for) Asgard engines and systems it shouldn't handle the same as the Prommie did. And, I have to wonder, with SG-1 to lead (yick) when did Mitchell have time to qualify on the Odyssey? That isn't a two hour run in the simulator sort of thing.

And being a 302 pilot wouldn't help either. You don't go from running drug intercepts in a Coast Guard cutter to picking up single swimmers from the water in the Exon GigantoSuperTanker XIX without additional training and practice. They might let you take the ExonGSTXIX out of station keeping, outside the harbor and in open water, and let you set her on course, but they won't let you try to pick up the 14 year old who capsized his Starfish off the beach. (And why doesn't the Odyssey have grapples, or shuttles, or something? No rescue teams, no NASA maneuvering packs, no nothing? )

To me it all just added up to Cam-Pimpage (ooh, aahh, squee). And I had my fill of Cam pimpage in the season 9 premiere. Feh.


It would actually have been a better scene, imo, if he had maneuvered up to Sam with the 302 and shot her a grapple line - a better illustration of his piloting capabilities, a better illustration of his bonds with his team, and a better special effect sequence towing her into the bay.

But, then again, I'm just a mean, ranting anti.

[Skydiver]

i really dont' think they even considered how it'd look. it's just second nature now for them to write cam as the hero

and while - presumably - rda could and did say 'dude, it's not right for jack to do this, let's let someone else do it' ben likely lacks the listenability to get them to heed his words

in other words, rda had the title to make them listen to him, ben doesn't have it so ben is subject to the writers whims and missteps

[DEM]

And I have to agree - it wasn't just the "oooh!!! <<sqee>> Cam can save her! <<clap your hands, boys!>>" image of the script meeting that popped (I'll have you know I typed 'pooped' there first thing - the Freud is with me ) into my fron that really infuriated me about that scene - it's the complete collage of those scenes - IdeaBoy!Cam, IgnoreTheShip'sFullColonelCommander!LieutenantColonelCam, BossTheAsgardOnSomebodyElse'sShip!Cam, JustTakeOverCommandOnSomebodyElse'sShipWhyDon'tYou!Cam, TakeOverTheHelmFromTheOfficialHelmsman!Cam, Don'tLookAtAllTheApplicableTelemetry!Cam, Don'tAskForInputWhenDoingSomethingVeryDangerous!Cam, Don'tGiveTheRescueeAChoice!Cam -

Heh. Thank you! For me it's not about "someone had to rescue Carter" or "Carter is a human being with emotions" -- yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. What irked me was watching everyone stand around while Mitchell alone kept his cool and single-handedly saved the day. Okay, yes, Kvasir helped in some way... that was completely lost on me ("Uh what when how? EH?!").

BTW, others have suggested that Carter was nervous because she wasn't in control and/or didn't trust Mitchell to succeed. Even were I to agree with that interpretation of Carter's psyche (which I don't), I still wouldn't get that from that scene. "It won't work" doesn't imply either of those.

It would actually have been a better scene, imo, if he had maneuvered up to Sam with the 302 and shot her a grapple line - a better illustration of his piloting capabilities, a better illustration of his bonds with his team, and a better special effect sequence towing her into the bay.

I had suggested that Carter should have provided guidance (accomplished by simply changing her frantic warnings to declarative statements), but I like your idea too. Even better, perhaps!

To me it all just added up to Cam-Pimpage (ooh, aahh, squee). And I had my fill of Cam pimpage in the season 9 premiere. Feh.

Ya know, though, from a psychological perspective I think they've managed a neat trick. Most everyone seems to be happier with Mitchell's portrayal -- fans and detractors alike. Apparently, by comporting himself (BB) more seriously, people are able to gloss over or accept that Mitchell is more super-duper than ever. Fascinating.

[RealmOfX]

And I have to agree - it wasn't just the "oooh!!! <<sqee>> Cam can save her! <<clap your hands, boys!>>" image of the script meeting that popped (I'll have you know I typed 'pooped' there first thing - the Freud is with me ) into my fron that really infuriated me about that scene - it's the complete collage of those scenes - IdeaBoy!Cam, IgnoreTheShip'sFullColonelCommander!LieutenantColonelCam, BossTheAsgardOnSomebodyElse'sShip!Cam, JustTakeOverCommandOnSomebodyElse'sShipWhyDon'tYou!Cam, TakeOverTheHelmFromTheOfficialHelmsman!Cam, Don'tLookAtAllTheApplicableTelemetry!Cam, Don'tAskForInputWhenDoingSomethingVeryDangerous!Cam, Don'tGiveTheRescueeAChoice!Cam -

The Odyssey is a newer ship of a different design than the Prometheus. If Cam was ever qualified to fly the really difficult and precise maneuvers on the Prommie, when did he get qualified on the Odyssey? With its different (designed for) Asgard engines and systems it shouldn't handle the same as the Prommie did. And, I have to wonder, with SG-1 to lead (yick) when did Mitchell have time to qualify on the Odyssey? That isn't a two hour run in the simulator sort of thing.

And being a 302 pilot wouldn't help either. You don't go from running drug intercepts in a Coast Guard cutter to picking up single swimmers from the water in the Exon GigantoSuperTanker XIX without additional training and practice. They might let you take the ExonGSTXIX out of station keeping, outside the harbor and in open water, and let you set her on course, but they won't let you try to pick up the 14 year old who capsized his Starfish off the beach. (And why doesn't the Odyssey have grapples, or shuttles, or something? No rescue teams, no NASA maneuvering packs, no nothing? )

To me it all just added up to Cam-Pimpage (ooh, aahh, squee). And I had my fill of Cam pimpage in the season 9 premiere. Feh.


It would actually have been a better scene, imo, if he had maneuvered up to Sam with the 302 and shot her a grapple line - a better illustration of his piloting capabilities, a better illustration of his bonds with his team, and a better special effect sequence towing her into the bay.

But, then again, I'm just a mean, ranting anti.

Ya know you just mentioned most of what I had been stewing on about the episode Sim!!

On the surface that episode was a HUGE improvement over Part 1, unfortunately that only got the ep up to ho hum status. If ya take a peek below the surface you get what you mentioned - EVERY freaking main character had Cam take over an aspect of their duties to make him look good. WHAT did TPTB think? It was so subtle we'd miss it?????????????

I have a question for RCC - How bloody weak is the Mitchell character that he couldn't do HIS job and look good?? Why is it necessary to downgrade the other strong characters just so your new character can shine? Does this not tell you something?? Maybe that your character needs to be written better?? Why can't you provide the same quality of yesteryear????????????????????

I've got more thoughts on the subject but I did want to write a civil review of the ep. Just needed to get a bit off my chest first

[J_schinderlin56]

Hmmmm.......

This is kinda like football. You have a star Quarterback who wins 3 national championships then decides to quit the team. Then the coach recruits a true freshman that led his team to win state back where he came from. He comes in and wins games, but it's only by like one touchdown each time, (the other guy would blow the enemy team out by 30 pts a game) the team doesn’t have the same dynamic anymore and the other schools are better this year. So the team has to scratch and claw for every TD. Back in the day the other guy would just lob 50 yarders to his star receiver. But now our Good ol' bald coach went on to coach a pro team so now we have this new coach who likes to do more running plays. But even though the team still wins games (Just not as much as they used to) people hate them now. Because now matter how well the new QB plays, he's just not the other guy. The only difference is that in football every body would hate the other guy quitting the team too.

[The.Prior.of.The.Ori]

i got just a minor complaint.....
1. Teal'cs extreamly odd hair cut
2. what happend to the asgard ship
3. no chekov in the opener
4 not enough CB in the opener

[RealmOfX]

Hey people, rather than taking the bait, how about we simply report the posts to the mods. Simply ignore their posts and please don't quote them.

[DEM]

I reported the posts about 30 minutes (?) ago.

[Skydiver]

children, don't feed the trolls

we've got some Ori on this forum right now, whose sole mission is not to respect the opinions of others, but to work to convert any and all dissenting opinions to thier own (ie you must love the show or you will be shown the path of loving every single aspect of the show)

do not respond to any off-topic posts in this thead, just report them and move on. You do have to realize that mods get to reported posts as soon as they can, but we do all have real lives and work so it may take a bit to get off topic posts cleaned up

[Zoser]

Who is this guy they keep calling Daniel?
In season 5 Menace I remember him, with tears in his eyes, calling Jack 'you stupid son of a b!#@*' for killing Reese. A pretty brave move considering Jack had a weapon in his hand and was pumped up with adrenalin.
This season he

Spoiler:

wants to do the deed himself. Maybe he is becoming jaded; the bright eyed 'moral center' of SG-1 has become a cynic. When the Ori are done with our boy I wonder who we will get back?