S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

thus, if the trend continues, a steady decline.

unless it levels off, it won't last too long

[esoap524]

Good point.

The story behind Mitchell's inclusion in the team isn't that he earned his position on the team, he asked for it. He wasn't invited to join the team because it was thought that he could bring something of value to SG-1, he is on the team because he decided that he was more deserving of a place than any of the officers stationed at the SGC or any of the officers being trained to join an SG team.

When SG-1 was first formed, the team consisted of an officer experienced in Black Ops, who had led both previous stargate missions; an extremely competent soldier who knew more about how the 'gate operated than anybody else on Earth did; a man who, in addition to being an expert on cultures and languages, had spent a year offworld and spoke the language of the Goa'uld fluently and a warrior with a good seventy plus years of combat experience under his belt, who had held the highest rank possible in an enemy army.

With Jonas, his natural ability to learn quickly allowed him to develop the skills to substitute for Daniel.

And Mitchell? Let's see, he read all of the SG-1's supposedly confidential mission reports which, given that in addition to reading them, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c also wrote their share of them, as well as experiencing the missions in question first hand, is of little use.

The Mitchell they have shown us is somebody I would consider to be more of a hindrance than a help to the team.

If the "Mitchell The Hewo Who Won A CMOH Because He Was So Much Braver And Specialler Than Every Other F-302 Pilot And We Owe Him Everything, Including Leadership Of SG-1 Because He's So Darn Great!" storyline was intended to endear the character to the audience, to justify his place on the team and to demonstate his value to the team, then it failed miserably as far as I'm concerned.

Tip for the writers: If such over the top pimping is needed to justify a character's introduction, that character is better off not introduced.

I finally watched Children of the Gods. One thing I noticed was all the backstory fill for Carter to "justify" why she should be on the team. This is not to say I didn't agree with it, I just noticed it. For the record, I thought Carter ROCKED in her introduction to a very reluctant O'Neill, up to and including her "do we need to arm wrestle now" comment.

My point is, this backstory/introduction reminded me a lot of Mitchell. Mitchell was the guy who lead the mission that saved SG1 (forgive me, because I'm not an historian of this show, I'm merely going by memory). Carter was the scientist who fiddled with the gate, offscreen, and figured out more or less how it worked. Much like Carter, he read the files. She references something like that in one of the first four episodes (I'm netflixing the series). Anyway, his backstory/association/reason for serving on the team is filled off-screen, much like Carter's was.

In exchange for his almost dying in fulfilling his mission, he's offered his choice of position. He asks to serve as part of Sg1. He does NOT ask to be its leader. When he's given that position, he's almost aghast, and even more so when he realizes that he's got to find a new team. He wanted to serve with the old one. He admits to Carter that he worries about "screwing up".

the original SG1 was formed by the man who led the original Stargate mission, the anthropologist who joins so that he can find his kidnapped wife, the scientist/Captain who's been fiddling with the gate, and the guy who saved their asses. the new Sg1 is filled by the guy who saved their asses, the anthropologist, the scientist/Colonel and the other guy who saved their asses. And he's given command because everyone else has walked away.

When the original team was formed, Carter and Teal'c were much like Mitchell. They didn't have practical history. Carter had theory and Teal'c just needed a place to crash.

What I found interesting in watching Children of the Gods was how similar Carter and Mitchell's introductions--personalities aside, of course--seemed and how these "newbies" came to blend with the "oldbies" so to speak, of Daniel and Jack.

So...long story short, and forgive me for taking an oppositional tack here, I don't see what the problem is. Mitchell asked for the assignment after O'Neill told him he could pretty much have anything we wanted.

What does he bring to the team? Maybe an enthusiasm that's lacking in the other members, understandably so, when you've been there/done that.

At any rate, that's my two cents or so.

I'm not going to get into how icky "Emancipation" was but I'll repeat--Carter rocks!

[MediaSavant]

thus, if the trend continues, a steady decline.

unless it levels off, it won't last too long

Are you referring to ECW or the Stargates?

Regardless, all depends on the price/revenue relationship of the programming.

Lower rated programming can survive if it's cheap to buy and still stays above the SciFi average rating of 1.0 (thereabouts) for Primetime.

Wrestling gets high ratings regardless of what channel it runs on. I'd be very surprised if it declines to 1.0.

[Rogue]

Good point.

The story behind Mitchell's inclusion in the team isn't that he earned his position on the team, he asked for it. He wasn't invited to join the team because it was thought that he could bring something of value to SG-1, he is on the team because he decided that he was more deserving of a place than any of the officers stationed at the SGC or any of the officers being trained to join an SG team.

When SG-1 was first formed, the team consisted of an officer experienced in Black Ops, who had led both previous stargate missions; an extremely competent soldier who knew more about how the 'gate operated than anybody else on Earth did; a man who, in addition to being an expert on cultures and languages, had spent a year offworld and spoke the language of the Goa'uld fluently and a warrior with a good seventy plus years of combat experience under his belt, who had held the highest rank possible in an enemy army.

With Jonas, his natural ability to learn quickly allowed him to develop the skills to substitute for Daniel.

And Mitchell? Let's see, he read all of the SG-1's supposedly confidential mission reports which, given that in addition to reading them, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c also wrote their share of them, as well as experiencing the missions in question first hand, is of little use.

The Mitchell they have shown us is somebody I would consider to be more of a hindrance than a help to the team.

If the "Mitchell The Hewo Who Won A CMOH Because He Was So Much Braver And Specialler Than Every Other F-302 Pilot And We Owe Him Everything, Including Leadership Of SG-1 Because He's So Darn Great!" storyline was intended to endear the character to the audience, to justify his place on the team and to demonstate his value to the team, then it failed miserably as far as I'm concerned.

Tip for the writers: If such over the top pimping is needed to justify a character's introduction, that character is better off not introduced.

What I think is scary is the fact that Jack was ok with putting Mitchell in charge. To me it was just another way for TPTB to put the "Jack stamp of approval" on Mitchell.

I can understand 9 years ago when the SGC was newly formed, they were filling teams with personnel with no gate experience. But now, I think it would be very unlikely they would put a person with no gate experience and with no training in charge of any team.

Putting Mitchell in charge was a mistake on TPTB. If they were going to write a fish out of water character they should have made him a major serving on SG-1 as a team member not the leader.

I was turned off by the way the character was introduced and it just went down hill from there.

[ReganX]

Mitchell was the guy who lead the mission that saved SG1 (forgive me, because I'm not an historian of this show, I'm merely going by memory).

Mitchell was one of many F-302 pilots who, along with the crew of the Prometheus, engaged Anubis' fleet in battle long enough to provide cover for SG-1. For some bizarre reason, he was considered more deserving of praise and recognition than any of his fellow pilots, General Hammond who was in command, or Jack who actually saved the planet and was offered any position he wanted - an offer which, by the way, was only made to Jack after he had served on SG-1 for five years and he had risked his life flying an exploding stargate away from Earth.

Carter was the scientist who fiddled with the gate, offscreen, and figured out more or less how it worked.

Sam was the scientist who spent two years working on the stargate and who was able to integrate it with Earth technology and make it work - all that was missing was the address. She also designed the program to calculate for stellar drift, allowing them to travel to planets other than Abydos. Sam was the person who knew more about stargate technology than anybody else on Earth did and she was therefore a valuable addition to SG-1, even without taking her considerable military talents into account.

She didn't get her position on SG-1 as a favour or as a reward but because she was able to offer the team both technological and scientific expertise and military prowess.

In exchange for his almost dying in fulfilling his mission, he's offered his choice of position. He asks to serve as part of Sg1. He does NOT ask to be its leader.

Yes, despite the fact that he has no offworld experience whatsoever, he asked that he be given the only remaining position on the flagship team, ahead of every other officer already stationed on the SGC, along with those who had been chosen to take part in the training to prepare them to be on an SG team.

Whether he believed that he was more deserving and better suited to the position than any of those officers or asked for the position despite knowing that he was less deserving and less suited to the position than they were, I do not think that it reflects well on him.

the original SG1 was formed by the man who led the original Stargate mission, the anthropologist who joins so that he can find his kidnapped wife, the scientist/Captain who's been fiddling with the gate, and the guy who saved their asses. the new Sg1 is filled by the guy who saved their asses, the anthropologist, the scientist/Colonel and the other guy who saved their asses. And he's given command because everyone else has walked away.

When they first joined the team

Jack: Led the previous two missions through the stargate, had extensive experience of Black Ops and leading ground missions.

Sam: Knew more about the stargate and how it operated than anybody else did, also possessed impressive combat skills.

Daniel: An expert in ancient cultures and languages. Had taken part in the first stargate mission and lived offworld for over a year, learning to speak Goa'uld fluently.

Teal'c: Aside from at least seven decades of combat experience, Teal'c had held the highest rank in Apophis' army and was therefore able to provide a unique insight into an enemy the team was very likely to face.

All four of them brought their own areas of expertise and skills to the group, each providing something that was lacking and working together as a unit.

Mitchell does not bring the team anything they need that they do not already have. They simply do not need him,in fact, judging from what I have seen, they would function much better as a team without him there.

As far as Vala is concerned, it is possible that she could prove a valuable addition to the team but Mitchell has not.

As well as that, "Children of the Gods" dealt with the beginning of the program. It was just getting started and, obviously they would have had to recruit outside their group to find suitable candidates for command of SG teams - although the first commanders chosen for SG-1 and SG-2 were both veterans of the first two missions to Abydos.

In Season Nine however, there is no reason why somebody with no experience has to be put in charge of the flagship team. There were about twenty-seven SG teams in operation at that point, maybe more. Therefore, excluding Sam, there were 26 experienced team leaders available and, even if an average of one member on each team is a civilian, and more than fifty officers and soldiers. There are also officers from other countries, along with new recruits being trained for the SGC.

What makes Mitchell more worthy of command of the team than any of the leaders other SG teams, or any of the experienced officers on those teams? What makes him more worthy of a place on SG-1 than any of the officers on other SG teams or those being trained for SG teams?

As near as I can tell, nothing.

[ReganX]

What I think is scary is the fact that Jack was ok with putting Mitchell in charge. To me it was just another way for TPTB to put the "Jack stamp of approval" on Mitchell.

That's exactly what it was.

What little time they had for RDA was wasted so that Jack could be forced to play his part in the "Let's Pimp Mitchell So Everyone Will Love Him" campaign which, thankfully, did not win me over.

I don't see Jack wanting to have Mitchell in command of SG-1. He made it clear in Season Eight that he wasn't prepared to put anyone on SG-1 based on a good resume. I don't see him having the authority to offer Mitchell any position he wanted, therefore it is logical to assume that the order came from someone much higher up the chain of command and that this person had some say in whether or not Mitchell's request was granted.

Landry, being new to command of the SGC and finding himself without a leader for SG-1, took a chance on Mitchell based on his record and Jack was hardly going to backseat drive or to do anything other than encourage Mitchell when he expressed doubts.

I can understand 9 years ago when the SGC was newly formed, they were filling teams with personnel with no gate experience. But now, I think it would be very unlikely they would put a person with no gate experience and with no training in charge of any team.

You're right about that. What was necessary in Season One was not necessary in Season Nine. An inexperienced newbie has no business leading a team, least of all the flagship team.

Putting Mitchell in charge was a mistake on TPTB. If they were going to write a fish out of water character they should have made him a major serving on SG-1 as a team member not the leader.

I agree. Putting him on the team as a major, maybe because Landry wanted to make up the numbers, would have made far, far, far more sense than the ridiculous storyline used to attempt to justify Mitchell as leader of SG-1.

[RealmOfX]

<snip snip snip>
What does he bring to the team? Maybe an enthusiasm that's lacking in the other members, understandably so, when you've been there/done that.

ReganX has done a good job in replying to some points in your post so I won't reiterate them. However, a couple of things stood out to me.

1) Interesting to note that enthusiasm is all you mention him bringing to the team. After having decided to take not one but two commands off Carter, why oh why, could they not write in a qualified AND competant replacement. So far no one has been able to give any reasonable reason of why he should be on a SG team let alone lead the top team.

2) I don't see how you can compare Carter as a captain coming into a new unit/base and Mitchell as a Lt Colonel coming in to lead the flagship team where they know exactly what qualifications are needed for the job (and he doesn't have them) - two totally different scenarios.

And no I won't turn this into the WSL thread

[AGateFan]

ReganX has done a good job in replying to some points in your post so I won't reiterate them. However, a couple of things stood out to me.

1) Interesting to note that enthusiasm is all you mention him bringing to the team. After having decided to take not one but two commands off Carter, why oh why, could they not write in a qualified AND competant replacement. So far no one has been able to give any reasonable reason of why he should be on a SG team let alone lead the top team.

2) I don't see how you can compare Carter as a captain coming into a new unit/base and Mitchell as a Lt Colonel coming in to lead the flagship team where they know exactly what qualifications are needed for the job (and he doesn't have them) - two totally different scenarios.

And no I won't turn this into the WSL thread

Yes, if Mitchell came in as a captain, or the fresh faced\enthusiastic lieutenant he acts like, then there really wouldn’t be a problem.

It is amazing how insulting this must be for every single person who has worked at the SGC and actually put their time in only to be passed over for some n00b with no clue just because he’s got connections. It’s like the boss giving his wife’s cousin a VP position.

[ReganX]

Yes, if Mitchell came in as a captain, or the fresh faced\enthusiastic lieutenant he acts like, then there really wouldn’t be a problem.

It was a huge mistake to bring Mitchell in as a leader. As a green lieutenant or captain, or even as a major, his flaws would be more forgiveable than they are in somebody who is supposedly leading the team.

It is amazing how insulting this must be for every single person who has worked at the SGC and actually put their time in only to be passed over for some n00b with no clue just because he’s got connections. It’s like the boss giving his wife’s cousin a VP position.

That's exactly what it comes across as, to me anyway. Think of Ferretti, for example - if he's still alive, I mean - he took part in the first mission to Abydos and would have been in command of an SG team for eight years by the time Mitchell graced (disgraced?) the SGC with his presence, yet he was passed over for command of the flagship team in favour of somebody with no experience whatsoever.

[g8tr]

Why, oh why, didn't they write in Mitchell as a Major or Captain? It would have been so much better. Young man trying to prove himself....

As it is, they went so far overboard trying to make us all like him, that they've caused the opposite reaction in many of us established fans. It's like Superman:
Look, out at the Stargate:
A bigger hero than O'Neill!
A better leader than Carter!
A better linguist than Daniel!
A better Jaffa fighter than Teal'c!
It's Superhero!

Give me a break. They've created the ugly step-brother!

[Rogue]

Why, oh why, didn't they write in Mitchell as a Major or Captain? It would have been so much better. Young man trying to prove himself....

As it is, they went so far overboard trying to make us all like him, that they've caused the opposite reaction in many of us established fans. It's like Superman:
Look, out at the Stargate:
A bigger hero than O'Neill!
A better leader than Carter!
A better linguist than Daniel!
A better Jaffa fighter than Teal'c!
It's Superhero!

Give me a break. They've created the ugly step-brother!

Your right, it has backfired on them.

[ReganX]

Why, oh why, didn't they write in Mitchell as a Major or Captain? It would have been so much better. Young man trying to prove himself....

As it is, they went so far overboard trying to make us all like him, that they've caused the opposite reaction in many of us established fans. It's like Superman:
Look, out at the Stargate:
A bigger hero than O'Neill!
A better leader than Carter!
A better linguist than Daniel!
A better Jaffa fighter than Teal'c!
It's Superhero!

Give me a break. They've created the ugly step-brother!

Anyone else wish that somebody would borrow the timeship and travel back to 1969 to convince Mitchell Senior to be sterilized?

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

It was a huge mistake to bring Mitchell in as a leader. As a green lieutenant or captain, or even as a major, his flaws would be more forgiveable than they are in somebody who is supposedly leading the team.



That's exactly what it comes across as, to me anyway. Think of Ferretti, for example - if he's still alive, I mean - he took part in the first mission to Abydos and would have been in command of an SG team for eight years by the time Mitchell graced (disgraced?) the SGC with his presence, yet he was passed over for command of the flagship team in favour of somebody with no experience whatsoever.

This is my humble .000002: Hence we come yet again back to the reason I'm on this thread: its a new show without a very much needed new name. They should have spun it off and named it Fargate or Stargate TNG or even "Going To Other Planets" since we don't see much gate interaction any more. They are going for a different/new/wider (in their minds) audience with little regard for how the changes look to us oldies who have been around since the aforementioned COTG.

Think of it this way: in one of the DVD commentaries (I think) it was said that Stargate was "about a team of people you would want to have in your living room week after week." Lets face it, the type of person who wants Sam Carter (as she has been developed) in their living room is probably very different than the one who wants Vala as she has been written. The type of person who has enjoyed very strong character development and team interaction is probably very different than those who enjoy what's being shown now. Not that person type A is better or worse than person type B but no doubt there's a segement that is different IMHO.

People who weren't around to watch the history of the show unfold and don't know, i.e. that Carter served in the Gulf war as a pilot, that she has Level 3 hand to hand combat training, that Orlin was once a charming and awkward alien entity instead of a 9-year or however old he was in season 9 (ick), yadda will just accept TPTB's literal 'plopping' of Mitchell into leadership and other things that seem so different from what I now refer to as Classic Stargate.

It was apparent to me during Avalon that the show 'moved on' significantly. Gone is the team that wouldn't leave one another behind. The reduced appearance of the Stargate. Crude humour and characters who are supposedly working toward the same goal ripping each other to shreds with below-the belt jokes. The "this could be happening now" feeling has been replaced and now its another 'space show'. The good versus evil theme has ben blurred as we see a thief and a liar brought onto the team. The CSI-like portrayal of violence as art a la "Off The Grid" and the Vala Burnings. The 'military' feeling is lacking.

Its a different show with the same name IMHHHHHO. I really wonder what role RDA's absence has played. That's just how I see it, that's my perspective as one who has watched since COTG. The changes are not ones that make me want to watch. We watch very little TV and this was a pretty clean show with a lot of inspiring stuff in it. Crude humor I won't watch. Leather-clad space dominatrix for purposes of entertainment - no thanks. TPTB kissed me and all the fans like me goodbye.

I still have hope that S10 will be better - that Vala will be toned down, that there will be more 'team' feeling, heck - that the 'team' will appear together more like in the same scenes??? Like they used to???

Anyway, rant over.

[SimilarCadence]

This is my humble .000002: Hence we come yet again back to the reason I'm on this thread: its a new show without a very much needed new name. They should have spun it off and named it Fargate or Stargate TNG or even "Going To Other Planets" since we don't see much gate interaction any more. They are going for a different/new/wider (in their minds) audience with little regard for how the changes look to us oldies who have been around since the aforementioned COTG.

Think of it this way: in one of the DVD commentaries (I think) it was said that Stargate was "about a team of people you would want to have in your living room week after week." Lets face it, the type of person who wants Sam Carter (as she has been developed) in their living room is probably very different than the one who wants Vala as she has been written. The type of person who has enjoyed very strong character development and team interaction is probably very different than those who enjoy what's being shown now. Not that person type A is better or worse than person type B but no doubt there's a segement that is different IMHO.

People who weren't around to watch the history of the show unfold and don't know, i.e. that Carter served in the Gulf war as a pilot, that she has Level 3 hand to hand combat training, that Orlin was once a charming and awkward alien entity instead of a 9-year or however old he was in season 9 (ick), yadda will just accept TPTB's literal 'plopping' of Mitchell into leadership and other things that seem so different from what I now refer to as Classic Stargate.

It was apparent to me during Avalon that the show 'moved on' significantly. Gone is the team that wouldn't leave one another behind. The reduced appearance of the Stargate. Crude humour and characters who are supposedly working toward the same goal ripping each other to shreds with below-the belt jokes. The "this could be happening now" feeling has been replaced and now its another 'space show'. The good versus evil theme has ben blurred as we see a thief and a liar brought onto the team. The CSI-like portrayal of violence as art a la "Off The Grid" and the Vala Burnings. The 'military' feeling is lacking.

Its a different show with the same name IMHHHHHO. I really wonder what role RDA's absence has played. That's just how I see it, that's my perspective as one who has watched since COTG. The changes are not ones that make me want to watch. We watch very little TV and this was a pretty clean show with a lot of inspiring stuff in it. Crude humor I won't watch. Leather-clad space dominatrix for purposes of entertainment - no thanks. TPTB kissed me and all the fans like me goodbye.

I still have hope that S10 will be better - that Vala will be toned down, that there will be more 'team' feeling, heck - that the 'team' will appear together more like in the same scenes??? Like they used to???

Anyway, rant over.

Well, I thought it was an excellent rant, WhatFateAlmondRoca. You've managed to put a lot of my thoughts into words..... We watch very little television and we're pretty selective in our viewing when we do watch something. We had become emotionally involved with the stories and characters of Stargate and, looking back, I think that's why my reaction to SG-1's "new direction" was so strongly negative when season 9 came shlumping along.

I hate crude humor. I hate poorly-conceived and badly-written characters (ie, Mitchell, Vala and poor Lam). I hate lame story-telling. There's plenty of that on television any day of the week. Stargate SG-1 was rich in story-telling and characterization and had a wonderfully dry sense of humor that was subtle and interwoven into the stories. It treated the viewer as an intelligent human being. On top of all that you could watch it (with the exception of a few episodes) as a family, which is pretty rare.

I like change, but only when it results in something better. If Season 9 had actually improved, I'd still be watching it. Once was too much. Unfortunately, I don't have much hope for season 10. The guys in charge have determined their course and are enthusiastic about it. IMO, the new SG-1 has devolved into a very common, dumbed-down, run-of-the-mill show as far as I'm concerned and I lay that wreath at the feet of TPTB..... JMO, of course.....

[Mandysg1]

Anyone else wish that somebody would borrow the timeship and travel back to 1969 to convince Mitchell Senior to be sterilized?

Or Sam could do it herself she is a doctor after all, and on SG if you're a scientist it means you specialize in everything