S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Vladius]

I think what they did was out of a desire for character development - we had known the regulars and most everything about them for 8+ years. It was time to give someone new a chance to shine. It just depends on if you like him or not. You can definitely see in some episodes that he's the new "Jonas Quinn," and the veterans treat him like a n00b. But they accept him a little more because he saved their lives. It's an interesting dynamic.

I liked especially the episodes with him and the Sodan warriors. It proved enlightening and it showed us a new aspect of the Jaffa and their fokelore.

[suse]

I agree with what Kat and others have said, that having co-leaders on an elite team like SG-1 is rather silly and IMO, unnecessarily muddles the chain of command. I also think that Sam was shown as a quite capable leader in episodes like Nightwalkers, Icon, and Stronghold.

Well, apparently Sam was capable of planning/leading until Mitchell - who wasn't even in the planning sessions!! - decided to come along and usurp her authority because he "was having a bad day" and wanted to run ahead save Teal'c, even though he'd never even seen/been in a ha'tak. How very... professional. Not.

With the budget cuts, I can definitely see the SGC perhaps shortening the training program shown in Proving Ground and assigning new SGC members sooner to field units. But IMHO, a trainee should have sufficient experience simply serving on a field unit before they are given command of one.

Right. You train to lead by learning from a leader, by example. Not by being one and making mistakes that could cost people their lives.

I get that he lead before. In a very different field. He had stuff to learn in this new area and needed to learn from someone else, not just be thrown in, not when there were options available. Like Sam.

To give a RL example, I'm currently working in an EMS system that is under such heavy budget cuts we're running low on essentials like oxygen tanks and IVs. But even now a paramedic new to the system, no matter how many hours they have logged as a medic elsewhere, cannot be the leader in a medical call until they've been trained through hands-on experience for a number of hours under the direct supervision of a field training officer. You simply do not stick a brand-new medic into the back of the truck and let them figure things out as they go.

that's scary, not even having enough basic supplies.

suse

[leiasky]

I kind of feel like you're not listening to us.

{mod snip}

There are a lot of people who post here who are very familiar with military regulations. Maybe one of them will step up and repeat everything everyone else has.

We're not saying we hate him (though some do), we're simply of the opinion that the show runners did a very poor job of bringing him into a show and adding him in cohesivley with established characters, blending him in with them instead of overpowering them.

Agreed. How Cam was integrated was poorly done. It's like they didn't even use their AF advisor those last two years. Didn't TPTP admit they didn't know what to do with Sam?

[suse]

I think what they did was out of a desire for character development - we had known the regulars and most everything about them for 8+ years. It was time to give someone new a chance to shine. It just depends on if you like him or not. You can definitely see in some episodes that he's the new "Jonas Quinn," and the veterans treat him like a n00b. But they accept him a little more because he saved their lives. It's an interesting dynamic.

I liked especially the episodes with him and the Sodan warriors. It proved enlightening and it showed us a new aspect of the Jaffa and their fokelore.

Are you saying that he had to lead to shine? The others didn't lead for 7-8 years and they had their chance(s) to shine. Why would he be any different?

suse

[Ashizuri]

Agreed. How Cam was integrated was poorly done. It's like they didn't even use their AF advisor those last two years. Didn't TPTP admit they didn't know what to do with Sam?

I recall reading/hearing that somewhere, but I can't be certain. Real or not, that is incredibly insulting to an actress whose considerable talents and grace created a character that is one of the reasons the show was so wildly successful.

[leiasky]

I recall reading/hearing that somewhere, but I can't be certain. Real or not, that is incredibly insulting to an actress whose considerable talents and grace created a character that is one of the reasons the show was so wildly successful.

Agreed.

[suse]

There are a lot of people who post here who are very familiar with military regulations. Maybe one of them will step up and repeat everything everyone else has.

RoX!!

Agreed. How Cam was integrated was poorly done. It's like they didn't even use their AF advisor those last two years. Didn't TPTP admit they didn't know what to do with Sam?

It was a comment one of them said, yes. I can't go further as it *really* ventures into the realm of trying to read minds.

I just think they were trying to find there way out a situation where they had too many leads. Though even then, adding another recurring character to SGA wouldn't have helped them.
<<sigh>>

Oh well. "Nuff said on that subject.

suse

[KatG]

I think what they did was out of a desire for character development - we had known the regulars and most everything about them for 8+ years. It was time to give someone new a chance to shine. It just depends on if you like him or not. You can definitely see in some episodes that he's the new "Jonas Quinn," and the veterans treat him like a n00b. But they accept him a little more because he saved their lives. It's an interesting dynamic.

I liked especially the episodes with him and the Sodan warriors. It proved enlightening and it showed us a new aspect of the Jaffa and their fokelore.

He could have had plenty of character development as a team member, or as an experienced SG team leader from another SG team. He didn't need to be a hot shot newbie Lt. Colonel put in charge of the flagship team. Sam, Daniel and Teal'c all had plenty of character development in season one without leading a team.

[Vladius]

What I mean is that people were talking about how he was "overshadowing" the other characters, and I just disagree.

I think it's clear in the first episode of Season 9 that SG-1 isn't what it once was. It has diffused, and the different members have become the kind of legendary figures we see in Atlantis. He decided to "get the band back together," just because the originals were the best. If Sam were going to get a command, she would probably have asked for one. I don't think it's insulting that her character is hard to write. She gets more Mary Sue treatment than anyone else.

[hedwig]

What I mean is that people were talking about how he was "overshadowing" the other characters, and I just disagree.

I think it's clear in the first episode of Season 9 that SG-1 isn't what it once was. It has diffused, and the different members have become the kind of legendary figures we see in Atlantis. He decided to "get the band back together," just because the originals were the best. If Sam were going to get a command, she would probably have asked for one. I don't think it's insulting that her character is hard to write. She gets more Mary Sue treatment than anyone else.

I think the point everyone else is trying to make is that Mitchell should have been learning from the best - not leading the best. He simply wasn't qualified to do that. He had no experience to do that. The others were qualified and had all the experience. He just came out of nowhere in the opening episode of S9 and was leading, with no background for his character, no build up, no introduction, no anything prior to S9. I have to agree with what everybody else has been saying here.

[suse]

What I mean is that people were talking about how he was "overshadowing" the other characters, and I just disagree.

I think it's clear in the first episode of Season 9 that SG-1 isn't what it once was. It has diffused, and the different members have become the kind of legendary figures we see in Atlantis. He decided to "get the band back together," just because the originals were the best. If Sam were going to get a command, she would probably have asked for one. I don't think it's insulting that her character is hard to write. She gets more Mary Sue treatment than anyone else.

I didn't see anyone say he overshadowed the other characters. He was just put in a place that he shouldn't have been (imo). He was scarcely developed, just plopped into Lead Male Action Hero role and given 'grandma-isms' and "This is what I'm talkin' 'bout" lines.

We have no idea if Sam asked for a command. It wasn't shown. What was shown was an inexperienced, untrained new guy given leadership *of the flagship team* over experienced and trained others, with no rational explanation as to why he was more worthy than them.

"Sam left, there was no leader for SG-1" is given as a reason. By the writers, no less. Dude. She left because she was written as leaving by the writers. It would have been just as easy to have her on a TDY assignment and unavailable for a few weeks. She could have even broken a leg and been healing. No reason to bring her back as they has no idea what a mess Vala's hostaging of Daniel would make of the galaxy. The first few eps didn't take very long, Stargate timeline-wise.

If any one character "overshadowed" the others it was Vala. She certainly overshadowed our new leader both in personality and in story time. (Note: I'm not saying it was a good thing either. )

We really had nothing to go on with Mitchell except SG-1 was overly grateful to a guy who merely did his job a year or so back. No less but certainly no more than countless other soldiers did to save SG-1's bacon over the previous 8 years.


suse

[HPMom]

I think what they did was out of a desire for character development - we had known the regulars and most everything about them for 8+ years. It was time to give someone new a chance to shine. It just depends on if you like him or not. You can definitely see in some episodes that he's the new "Jonas Quinn," and the veterans treat him like a n00b. But they accept him a little more because he saved their lives. It's an interesting dynamic.

I liked especially the episodes with him and the Sodan warriors. It proved enlightening and it showed us a new aspect of the Jaffa and their fokelore.

I think just the opposite, they were shortcutting character development. Rather than have him go on missions and create a character that we respect and grow to understand because the episodes show his character, they just had him cut to the front of line and be Mr. Leader (or should I say Colonel Leader). I think it would have been much more interesting for them to develop his character throughout the season and it would have felt much more organic. That's how the other team members gained our respect. The writers didn't tell us in the first episode, "love this guy because we tell you he's great".

[VSS]

We have no idea if Sam asked for a command. It wasn't shown. What was shown was an inexperienced, untrained new guy given leadership *of the flagship team* over experienced and trained others, with no rational explanation as to why he was more worthy than them.

This is the problem in a nutshell.

"Sam left, there was no leader for SG-1" is given as a reason. By the writers, no less. Dude. She left because she was written as leaving by the writers. It would have been just as easy to have her on a TDY assignment and unavailable for a few weeks. She could have even broken a leg and been healing. No reason to bring her back as they has no idea what a mess Vala's hostaging of Daniel would make of the galaxy. The first few eps didn't take very long, Stargate timeline-wise.

I did LOL at the bolded part! But as a S/J shipper I like the vague "I took this job for a reason," I must admit.

We really had nothing to go on with Mitchell except SG-1 was overly grateful to a guy who merely did his job a year or so back. No less but certainly no more than countless other soldiers did to save SG-1's bacon over the previous 8 years.

It wasn't SG-1 who was grateful, was it? It seemed like it was Jack. Which I thought was even more unbelievable because Mitchell was just doing his job, just like SG-1 had done over and over and over without recognition, just as Jack would have expected him and everyone else to do. Of course, Jack knew it was an empty promise- the chess game conversation was funny.

And when did SG-1 ever get the congressional medal of honor? That was like rubbing salt in a wound to me- not that Sg-1 ever cared about it. That medal of honor stuff was waaaaay over the top. It really did scream "He's a hero because Congress says he is!"

[suse]

I did LOL at the bolded part! But as a S/J shipper I like the vague "I took this job for a reason," I must admit.

Taking that job and not leading SG-1 at a later date didn't need to be mutually exclusive.

It wasn't SG-1 who was grateful, was it? It seemed like it was Jack. Which I thought was even more unbelievable because Mitchell was just doing his job, just like SG-1 had done over and over and over without recognition, just as Jack would have expected him and everyone else to do. Of course, Jack knew it was an empty promise- the chess game conversation was funny.

Sam gave him the CMoH. And seems awfully grateful, though I'd imagine she'd feel the same for anyone who got in that condition while protecting her/SG-1.

And when did SG-1 ever get the congressional medal of honor? That was like rubbing salt in a wound to me- not that Sg-1 ever cared about it. That medal of honor stuff was waaaaay over the top. It really did scream "He's a hero because Congress says he is!"

Also means all of those who vote on these things know about the supposed secret of the Stargate and the battle over Antarctica.

Yeah, once Hammond said "Protect SG-1 at all costs" the MoH was out. If anyone deserved one it was O'Neill for getting his brain stuffed with the Ancient info *again* knowing it would likely kill him.

I'm not saying Mitchell didn't deserve a medal. Just not that one.

suse

[VSS]

Sam gave him the CMoH. And seems awfully grateful, though I'd imagine she'd feel the same for anyone who got in that condition while protecting her/SG-1.
suse

For a minute there I thought you said: "Sam.. seems awfully grateful, though I'd imagine she'd feel the same for anyone who got her in that condition..."

I rubbed my eyes and looked at it again until I figured it out.