S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ses110]

I'm not sure how it works. Did MGM have to approve more seasons? I'm just trying to figure out the comment no RDA no new seasons.

[Silverwings]

If the Goa'uld turned out to be weapons engineered by the Ancients to make humans more powerful in combat against the Bori, or the Asgard's problems being caused by the Ancients giving them advanced technology to help fight the Bori, or the Nox being pacifists because of the bloodshed when the alliance fought against the Bori; that would've made things so much more interesting: Two powerful civilization manipulating lesser beings to fight and drain power of on the lower planes while they go all out on the higher planes.

And with Anubis as a wildcard, it would've been so much more amusing, especially if Vala turned out to be Oma in a moral form to keep tabs on him while he tricks humanity into fighting for him.

Those two paragraphs are more interesting than the entirety of S9-10. The Goa'uld bit is especially interesting.

[suse]

I'm not sure how it works. Did MGM have to approve more seasons? I'm just trying to figure out the comment no RDA no new seasons.

MGM and Sci-Fi had to approve more seasons. Mostly Sci-Fi, I think.

But RDA stayed with SG-1 for several years (with an increasingly reduced schedule) because it would not have been renewed without his presence. And he wanted his friends to keep their jobs.

It's only after Gekko left that fans discovered exactly how much more they did behind the scenes than we thought. I knew Michael Greenberg was only a behind-the-scenes Executive Producer, but it turns out Rick also nixed some awfully over-the-top stuff.

So RDa was there for S8. Ans Sci-Fi wanted a S8 to help launch Atlantis.

Those in Charge decided that to save money they would do all the writing without (much) more staff. Makes sense in theory. In execution? Quality suffered.

For years Stargate was promoting from within. Which, assuming the person is capable, is a great thing. However the promotion just added a new hat, new responsibilities. And less time to do them. Add a new show. Twenty more eps to write.

Some things (make-up/costuming/other stuff) can't be done without more people. But the management/spinning end? All doubled and tripled duty.

Ta-da! S9 and S10... And some awful eps of SGA thrown into the mix, though with less history it was less noticable.

suse

[Skydiver]

Good point Jackie. Do we know if Gekko had multiple directors and writers as well? I think the big difference was Gekko could have had Lucas or Spielberg and Gekko would have made sure the Show followed their lead.

they had multiples. That's actually the norm for shows. B5 is quite extraordinary in that JMS wrote most of the episodes.

I wonder if the bi-polar or OoC acting of the characters is a result of having different directors all the time or the writing. I know tptb tend to cycle the responsibility about.

On the blog of doom, JM will talk about how...he wrote this ep and such and such directed that ep.

I get the impression there are way to many chiefs behind the scene, none of the them have a shared vision of just how the show should be, and the shipping is off the charts. (3 way coming for SGA)

I attribute it more to, no one having enough time or willingness or whatever, to sit down and say 'dude, you can't have teal'c doing this, it's out of character and it contradicts an episode 2 months ago'

i attribute the unevenness to a lack of quality control. either they were oblivious to issues, or didn't have time, or didnt' care, but there was no one keeping an overall eye on things, thus stuff was allowed to get away from them.

it'd be like 4 people all writing chapters of a fic, but that never talk to each other, thus no one is coordinating the overall story, so it ends up all jumbled and uneven

Oh no. Different writers and directors is totally normal. What isn't is using the same writers (with only a small addition) to do double the episodes. Same with directing. They were overworked. By choice, but still overworked.

In his last interview Brad said he likes the additional time to polish scripts, a chance he was not afforded when both shows were on. And of course last year he and Coop were doing the Sg-1 movies.

Well, if time is needed to polish scripts but there is no time, what happens? Quality suffers. It's details - some larger than others - that make or break a show. Guess we know what happened in Stargate's case.

suse

yeah, they were over worked, but like you said, it was thier choice. they could do it all, didn't need anyone coming in, didn't need to share the workload or whatever, so a tiny little group tried to crank out 40 episodes, and they were so pressed to get it done that they seemed to rarely take a good look at what they were doing.

and if Brad honestly and truly needed to polish every script to make it 'good'...shouldn't that say something on its own?

[suse]

and if Brad honestly and truly needed to polish every script to make it 'good'...shouldn't that say something on its own?

Weel, I know he used to polish the technobabble bits. And he has said it was the norm to do passes on scripts - though he didn't take the credit (on the credits ) like he *could* have.

Say something on it's own? Something distressingly obvious apparently.

I'm not saying there aren't some good writers in the mix. The mix just needed to be a bit more... ingredients.

suse

[Skydiver]

i think, like many people, a second opinion is a good thing. Tht's why fanfic writers have beta's..someone to read over it and go 'umm, you can't break sam's arm on page 75 cause you already broke it on page 25' or 'you can't break the arm on page 74 cause you have her climbing a rope on page 234, and it's not 2 months later'

little things like that. a little proof reading

[jckfan55]

One star from another show was bad enough. Two stars (lead no less, from the same show)? No. Add in writing one as the team lead when we already had one (AT being gone for 5 eps holds no water as an excuse, they knew she was coming back) and the other written as, as, as inappropriate for the type of show SG-1 used to be (PU and S9 Vala GAHHHHH! though s9 was much worse)... When did *overt* sexual harassment become okay? When did hostage-taking, thievery and slavery become "sexy" and "fun"?
suse

I found PU painful on so many levels. (one among them wrecking Hammond's heroic moment by having a juvenile "funny" moment about Reynolds(?) hesitating to do mouth to mouth on him because ooh, icky guy lips or something. They guy's dying FCOL. Says more about the writer's level of maturity....)
To make that character of Vala not a recurring enemy (which would have been bleh in my book) but to put her on the team? AND without giving us any good reason why she belonged there? sigh

[jckfan55]

yeah, they were over worked, but like you said, it was thier choice. they could do it all, didn't need anyone coming in, didn't need to share the workload or whatever, so a tiny little group tried to crank out 40 episodes, and they were so pressed to get it done that they seemed to rarely take a good look at what they were doing.

and if Brad honestly and truly needed to polish every script to make it 'good'...shouldn't that say something on its own?

Maybe they were all overconfident. I know they did bring in a new writer--AM, who I think had some good ideas, but from what he said on commentaries, RCC rewrote all his scripts. (he didn't put it that strongly). Now maybe AM needed polishing, but maybe he didn't write in the Bori direction RCC wanted.

When the EP is writing (and directing in some cases) the episodes as several have said before, there's no one to say "wait a second" about stuff. The fact that BW basically abdicated his role on SG1 in the later seasons and then seeing the resulting episodes, tell me something.

[Skydiver]

brad had a wonderful touch and a sense of how much 'silly' is appropriate.

it seems to be a touch that his successors didn't catch. It's like, after years of gekko & co saying 'no, you won't do that', once gekko was gone and no one was there to say 'no' they were like kids in a candy store and indulged every single 'wonderful' idea they'd had over the years.

and, in a totally different show, who's to say that their ideas weren't necessarily bad, but they were a huge 180 from what the show had been. even if brad and gekko's formula seemed 'boring' to some, it was tried and true and had kept the show on the air for 6+ years.

but as soon as they swapped it out for 'fun' the ratings started to fall and people turned the channel.

[silly sally]

brad had a wonderful touch and a sense of how much 'silly' is appropriate.

it seems to be a touch that his successors didn't catch. It's like, after years of gekko & co saying 'no, you won't do that', once gekko was gone and no one was there to say 'no' they were like kids in a candy store and indulged every single 'wonderful' idea they'd had over the years.

and, in a totally different show, who's to say that their ideas weren't necessarily bad, but they were a huge 180 from what the show had been. even if brad and gekko's formula seemed 'boring' to some, it was tried and true and had kept the show on the air for 6+ years.

but as soon as they swapped it out for 'fun' the ratings started to fall and people turned the channel.

I think brad was influenced positively also by his work with Glassner, after all they created SG-1

[jckfan55]

Yes, i think Glassner was an important influence too. Didn't they work together on the Outer LImits? I've only seen a few episodes of that, but what I've seen was an SF drama.

IIRC, JM & PM started as comedy writers, and while the humor was an important element to the show, so everything wasn't deadly serious all the time--and the characters didn't take themselves overly seriously--that doesn't mean the show was farcical. They seemed to forget that in S9 &10.

[Gregorius]

Didn't Glassner leave after S3 and wasn't it after S3, according to JM iirc, that there wasn't a show bible?

Anyway, I just read JM's blog and he stated that if SGU gets green lighted they'll have to hire new writers.

[Jackie]

By the time season 10 came around...tptb wanted the show to more of a comedy/action adventure.

I do recall early seasons of SG-1...showtime had it listed as a drama in the tv guide screen.

Anyways, I daughter dragged me to see Kung Fu Panda yesterday. (I really dreaded seeing it...the previews were stupid looking)

I was actually surprised that it really was good and had a plot. Dustin Hoffman did a great job with his character. I would rate it as high as Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Ratings on films I saw recently:

Kung Fu Panda...10
Alvin and Chipmunks...10
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom....8
Ark of Truth.........5
Enchanted.......8

[Skydiver]

Anyway, I just read JM's blog and he stated that if SGU gets green lighted they'll have to hire new writers.

best news i heard all day

and best chance the show has to last more than one season

[Gregorius]

My Name Is Scott writes: “A recent Gateworld news tidbit spoke of Stargate Universe, and how it may or may not trigger the end of Stargate Atlantis. If the problem is stretching out the writing staff, couldn’t new writers be brought on board instead of doubling the work load for the exiting writers?”

Answer: If both shows received a greenlight for next year, then we certainly would have to hire new writers.

I wonder who'd be showrunner for SGU.