S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ACharmedAsgard]

Yes, In Momento Mori you saw a little of this deepness but it was quickly thrown away at the end.

[AGateFan]

This is just an aside but I have a friend who's written a cross-over Farscape/SG1 series. In that, there is no Vala but CB's Farscape character (Aeryn) ends up thru the gate and after much turmoil, is made a member of the team.

Of course, that character is a born and bred soldier so...makes sense.

I like Vala, but, yeah, I get what the issues are.

I have seen many a Farscape/SG-1 crossover. I used to look for them because usually I really liked them. Aeryn would be an excellent member of SG-1. Not only is she a cool solider character but the most honorable character on farscape. Although I am of the opinion they did that character damage by wimpyfying her in S4* (but then they did all characters disservice in that season) where as her reactions after the tragedy at end of S3 seemed quite in character.

*note I am not a shippy person, especially not with waaaayyy over the top, soap opray type ship. About the only ship I really ever liked was the Delenn\Sheridan stuff because they seemed like a couple of adults who just started to respect and like each other and ended up getting married without all the never ending constrination that is overdone in most ships (such as S4 farscape)

EDIT: Well I admit I am a Stark/Zahnn shipper too.... not sure why but I really like that darn crazy bannik and the contrast with the calmer (but with a crazy killer past) zahnn is very interesting to me.

[esoap524]

I have seen many a Farscape/SG-1 crossover. I used to look for them because usually I really liked them. Aeryn would be an excellent member of SG-1. Not only is she a cool solider character but the most honorable character on farscape. Although I am of the opinion they did that character damage by wimpyfying her in S4* (but then they did all characters disservice in that season) where as her reactions after the tragedy at end of S3 seemed quite in character.

*note I am not a shippy person, especially not with waaaayyy over the top, soap opray type ship. About the only ship I really ever liked was the Delenn\Sheridan stuff because they seemed like a couple of adults who just started to respect and like each other and ended up getting married without all the never ending constrination that is overdone in most ships (such as S4 farscape)

EDIT: Well I admit I am a Stark/Zahnn shipper too.... not sure why but I really like that darn crazy bannik and the contrast with the calmer (but with a crazy killer past) zahnn is very interesting to me.

LOL about STark and Zhaan.

yeah, they really wimped her out in season 4 but, as you say, they did kind of goof up everyone.

I agree--Aeryn would be an asset to the SG1 team In our perfect fantasy world.

[ReganX]

Something was definitely skewed there. It's another aspect of hewo thing I guess. Since Jack was promoted and left to go to Washington, The Big 3 decided to split up and it falls on the hewo to get them back together again!

And he couldn't even manage that!

Unless you count the fact that his childish refusal to accept that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c had moved on - I still cannot believe that he wanted Sam to give up her command position at Area 51 to act as his 2IC on a four person team, or that he tried to use emotional blackmail to secure her consent - and to choose three of the candidates available put them in an incredibly awkward position where they couldn't refuse to join SG-1 once they agreed to return to the SGC.

Had I been in Landry's shoes, Mitchell would not, under any circumstances, have been allowed set one foot offworld until he did so with an SG-1 made up of three of the candidates available.

Actually, if I had been in Landry's shoes, Mitchell's chances of leading SG-1 would be about as slim as Kinsey's.

[ReganX]

Yeah, I had a big problem with them breaking up the team so the team could built around Mitchell. Mitchell was not qualified to be leader of any SGC team, much less SG-1.

Storywise, the timing of Sam's departure is incredibly convenient - she's been gone a week.

If Landry possessed one ounce of common sense - something I have serious doubts about - he would have begged her to stay for at least a few more weeks and a few more missions so that she could choose the new members of SG-1 (she'd know more about what the job entailed and who'd be suited to to it) and lead them and Mitchell on a few missions so that she could quietly evaluate him as a member of an SG team and as a potential leader before any decision was made over whether he would be offered command, or kept at the SGC at all.

If, for whatever reason, Sam couldn't stick around, another SG team leader should have been assigned the job.

I also had a big problem with them ignoring Vala crimes against Earth/AF. In fact I wished they had not brought her in at the beginning of S9. They needed to establish Mitchell and it seemed that Vala was the center of attention.

I think that's another symptom of them trying to do too much, too fast. TPTB were aware that their time with CB at the beginning of Season Nine was limited and that if they wanted to bring her back, they would need to justify the expense of increasing the cast to six regulars for Season Ten (compared to the four of Season Eight and the five in every other season) by showing that Vala was a popular character. It is likely that focusing on Vala as much as possible in the first six episodes and pairing her off with Daniel were intended to achieve this result.

However, this meant that once CB was gone, they had to play catch up as far as Mitchell was concerned, with disastrous results. Mitchell, having been relegated to the background for much of the first quarter of the season, was then thrust into the limelight at every possible opportunity, at the expense of the other characters, but as he had not really been established at the beginning of the series, the writers were doing this without a blueprint for the character.

[JessM]

And he couldn't even manage that!

Unless you count the fact that his childish refusal to accept that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c had moved on - I still cannot believe that he wanted Sam to give up her command position at Area 51 to act as his 2IC on a four person team, or that he tried to use emotional blackmail to secure her consent - and to choose three of the candidates available put them in an incredibly awkward position where they couldn't refuse to join SG-1 once they agreed to return to the SGC.

Had I been in Landry's shoes, Mitchell would not, under any circumstances, have been allowed set one foot offworld until he did so with an SG-1 made up of three of the candidates available.

Actually, if I had been in Landry's shoes, Mitchell's chances of leading SG-1 would be about as slim as Kinsey's.

I think it reflects badly on Landry. He's made some boneheaded decisions since becoming commander of the SGC, hasn't he (one of those being the quite sudden acceptance of Vala and making her a member of the team in MM).

[ReganX]

I think it reflects badly on Landry. He's made some boneheaded decisions since becoming commander of the SGC, hasn't he (one of those being the quite sudden acceptance of Vala and making her a member of the team in MM).

Very true.

Can anybody here see Hammond or Jack

(a) putting a green newbie in charge of the flagship team, the team most likely to run into trouble?
(b) leaving said green newbie in charge despite the presence of a far more experienced officer and of a known threat?
(c) allowing a close relative of theirs to remain as CMO, despite the obvious potential for favouritism and for personal issues to affect command decisions?
(d) allowing Vala to join SG-1 despite having met her?

[Skydiver]

i will give landry a freebie on sam, simply because that situation was governed by at's time off.

i place the blame on the writers who didn't take 15 mintues to come up with a better story to explain sam's absence.

it's like they either didn't care or were hoping 'hey, maybe she'll stay home with the baby adn we won't have to deal with her at all' so they gave her exit all the care they gave jack's departure....ie none at all.

and then wondered howcome fans go 'whaaaaa?????' and question.

Like come on guys, take a half hour and spin a little back story huh????

send sam on a mission, have her injured, have her on the alpha site, do something a little more than 'ah, we'll jsut send her off to area 51'

they sent her off, brought her back and basically demoted her...not a way to treat a character, imho.

[ReganX]

i will give landry a freebie on sam, simply because that situation was governed by at's time off.

What about part (b)?

I consider it irresponsible of Landry to even think of leaving Mitchell in charge once Sam was back. He put the whole team at risk - had it not been for a conveniently timed beam out, they all would have died in "Off The Grid" because nobody had the authority to overturn Mitchell's moronic decision.

i place the blame on the writers who didn't take 15 mintues to come up with a better story to explain sam's absence.

it's like they either didn't care or were hoping 'hey, maybe she'll stay home with the baby adn we won't have to deal with her at all' so they gave her exit all the care they gave jack's departure....ie none at all.

and then wondered howcome fans go 'whaaaaa?????' and question.

Like come on guys, take a half hour and spin a little back story huh????

send sam on a mission, have her injured, have her on the alpha site, do something a little more than 'ah, we'll jsut send her off to area 51'

they sent her off, brought her back and basically demoted her...not a way to treat a character, imho.

Even if they weren't sure when exactly AT would be back, they could still have worked around her absence without removing Sam from command. If Sam was absent because she was on a mission with the Asgard or another of their allies, for example, and AT needed more time, instead of Sam returning in Episode Six, Landry tells them that he's received a message from her and that the mission will take longer than expected, the others go on without her.

Area 51 was a terrible idea. In the first eight seasons, has Sam ever indicated that she'd prefer to give up offworld missions in favour of working in a lab full time?

If Cassie's problems are so severe that Sam needs to give up SG-1 for her sake, surely they are severe enough to prevent her returning to the team a few weeks later.

A little care and thought on the parts of TPTB - not just the writers - would have made all the difference.

[Skydiver]

i give landry the charcter a freebie cause he's just parroting what the writers ahve written.

If landry was real, then sure he needs a smackdown for being such a putz

but it's the writers that didn't seem to care about anything other than vala and 'wow, look, no bosses,we can do whatever we waaaannnnnttttt' and treated all the characters with such disrespect that i'm left shaking my head.

sam's absence is still another missed opportunity. they could have developed sam and cam with at's absence. Instead they took the easy way out - AGAIN - and just ignored it and concentrated on having fun

[Rogue]

And he couldn't even manage that!

Unless you count the fact that his childish refusal to accept that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c had moved on - I still cannot believe that he wanted Sam to give up her command position at Area 51 to act as his 2IC on a four person team, or that he tried to use emotional blackmail to secure her consent - and to choose three of the candidates available put them in an incredibly awkward position where they couldn't refuse to join SG-1 once they agreed to return to the SGC.

Had I been in Landry's shoes, Mitchell would not, under any circumstances, have been allowed set one foot offworld until he did so with an SG-1 made up of three of the candidates available.

Actually, if I had been in Landry's shoes, Mitchell's chances of leading SG-1 would be about as slim as Kinsey's.

I think for one Mitchell knew he was over his head. He came in with the expectation of being one of the team and now he is the leader without an experienced team. Another is that after reading all those mission reports, he has this fantasy about running around the galaxy/saving Earth with the original SG-1. He gets to the SGC and his bubble pops.

I was put off with Mitchells character from the beginning. The hero backstory was lame. Jack at his bed side promising him the world. Sam bowing down to his greatness. After gracing the SGC with his presence we find out that he is now the leader of SG-1. Huh? All the qualified officers at the SGC and a newbie is put in charge. He had never even seen the gate much less traveled through it. That decision alone made Landry look like an idiot. Oh and then Jack giving him his seal of approval was just the icing on the cake. The guy must be ok if Jack thinks he is. It makes me wonder if a side effect of frequent gate travel is insanity.

[ReganX]

but it's the writers that didn't seem to care about anything other than vala and 'wow, look, no bosses,we can do whatever we waaaannnnnttttt' and treated all the characters with such disrespect that i'm left shaking my head.

sam's absence is still another missed opportunity. they could have developed sam and cam with at's absence. Instead they took the easy way out - AGAIN - and just ignored it and concentrated on having fun

I wonder if TPTB really wanted to continue to Season Eleven and beyond, or if they ever seriously expected to, or if they were ready to leave SG-1 behind and move on and therefore didn't put as much thought into the introduction and integration of new characters, or the continuing development of the established characters as they might have under other circumstances.

[ReganX]

I think for one Mitchell knew he was over his head. He came in with the expectation of being one of the team and now he is the leader without an experienced team. Another is that after reading all those mission reports, he has this fantasy about running around the galaxy/saving Earth with the original SG-1. He gets to the SGC and his bubble pops.

He's not five years old. Even if he had thought that he was to work with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, I would hope that anyone who was expected to lead SG-1, or any military team for that matter, would be mature enough to accept that they had left, to respect their decisions and to give the candidates available a fair chance instead of sulking.

I was put off with Mitchells character from the beginning. The hero backstory was lame. Jack at his bed side promising him the world. Sam bowing down to his greatness. After gracing the SGC with his presence we find out that he is now the leader of SG-1. Huh? All the qualified officers at the SGC and a newbie is put in charge. He had never even seen the gate much less traveled through it. That decision alone made Landry look like an idiot.

Definitely. The only way it could make any kind of sense to me would be if it had been made clear that Landry, just starting out in a new command, preferred to have a fellow newbie in what one could argue was the second most prominent position at the SGC, even if it wasn't technically the second most senior.

If he wasn't comfortable having Sam, who had been involved in the Stargate Program longer than almost any other character, including General Hammond, around for fear that junior officers would automatically look to her for answers and guidance, then maybe instead of refusing Area 51's request for Sam to transfer there, he agreed.

SG-1 would all have been legends at the SGC and I can see how a new base commander might feel intimidated by their presence.

However, any indication that Sam hadn't wanted to leave SG-1 would have made it even clearer that she had been wronged when she lost command - and I doubt TPTB would have wanted that.

Oh and then Jack giving him his seal of approval was just the icing on the cake. The guy must be ok if Jack thinks he is. It makes me wonder if a side effect of frequent gate travel is insanity.

That's what I thought at first, but I looked over the script and Jack says no such thing.

When he and Landry speak in "Avalon, Part 1", it is Landry who expresses a semblence of confidence in Mitchell's abilities. Jack does not say anything to agree to this, he merely comments that Mitchell has a good commanding officer in Landry.

LANDRY: Yeah. He'll uh…he'll get his feet. Man's a survivor.
JACK: He's also got the best of the best looking out for him.

In "Origin", when Jack speaks to Mitchell, he tells him Landry's opinion, not his own. Jack does not voice his own opinion of Mitchell.

JACK: So, Mitchell, I hear you haven't picked out your team yet.
MITCHELL: I'm hoping I won't have to, sir. Why, did General Landry say something about it, sir?
O'NEILL: He did.
MITCHELL: Are you going to tell me, sir?
O'NEILL: He said you're going to be fine, Mitchell.

Hardly a seal of approval.

It makes me wonder if the offer of any post Mitchell wanted came from Jack, or if he was merely the messenger, and how Jack really felt about Mitchell being allowed to be on SG-1, let alone command the team

[Rogue]

He's not five years old. Even if he had thought that he was to work with Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, I would hope that anyone who was expected to lead SG-1, or any military team for that matter, would be mature enough to accept that they had left, to respect their decisions and to give the candidates available a fair chance instead of sulking.



Definitely. The only way it could make any kind of sense to me would be if it had been made clear that Landry, just starting out in a new command, preferred to have a fellow newbie in what one could argue was the second most prominent position at the SGC, even if it wasn't technically the second most senior.

If he wasn't comfortable having Sam, who had been involved in the Stargate Program longer than almost any other character, including General Hammond, around for fear that junior officers would automatically look to her for answers and guidance, then maybe instead of refusing Area 51's request for Sam to transfer there, he agreed.

SG-1 would all have been legends at the SGC and I can see how a new base commander might feel intimidated by their presence.

However, any indication that Sam hadn't wanted to leave SG-1 would have made it even clearer that she had been wronged when she lost command - and I doubt TPTB would have wanted that.



That's what I thought at first, but I looked over the script and Jack says no such thing.

When he and Landry speak in "Avalon, Part 1", it is Landry who expresses a semblence of confidence in Mitchell's abilities. Jack does not say anything to agree to this, he merely comments that Mitchell has a good commanding officer in Landry.



In "Origin", when Jack speaks to Mitchell, he tells him Landry's opinion, not his own. Jack does not voice his own opinion of Mitchell.



Hardly a seal of approval.

It makes me wonder if the offer of any post Mitchell wanted came from Jack, or if he was merely the messenger, and how Jack really felt about Mitchell being allowed to be on SG-1, let alone command the team

I wasn't disagreeing with you on your assement of Mitchell's maturity.

Maybe but I took the cock pit scene as passing the baton to the new guy. Sometimes visual leaves more of an impression than audio. Why have the scene if they weren't wanting to leave that impression?

Of course the whole Jack send off was strange anyway.

[Nolamom]

IOf course the whole Jack send off was strange anyway.

Ya think? Strange is putting it mildly. I liked best in "200" when they discuss losing the lead...the expressions on everyones' faces when it is suggested that they just never mention him at all. Which, of course, is exactly what they had done. How boneheaded!