Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[mara-anni]

Like Affinity, Grace is right a the top in terms of a study in emotional dysfunction, IMHO.
I don't like Grace except for the kiss which she still had to do in her mind inside a hallucination- talk about distancing!.

One thing that annoys me about Grace is when her hallucination of Jack tells her "Why don't you find out, if you really want to know?" Well, why doesn't he tell her if he really wants her to know? Because Sam knows it's always going to be up to her to find out how he feels, and even in Affinity, he can't give her a straight answer. On board that ship, she's exhausted and beat up, and here he is telling her she's got more work to do. In fact, she was less than thrilled to "see" him in the first place- "I was wondering when you were going to show up." How much of that statement was her present situation, and how much was her long-term emotional situation is hard to tell.

What was interesting was Sam's reaction at the end of Grace. She seemed genuinely tired of the "sir" thing and his constantly joking around. I agree that's when she made her choice. I know it was a necessary part of the story line so she could really figure out her feelings for Jack and create lots of angst for us, but in the end they both took what seemed like the easy way out- when it was actually the hard way.

And I agree he deliberatley corrected her when she called him "Jack." He didn't look the least bit surprised. He just couldn't cut her any slack- in fact he'd have let an injured airman get away with it in that situation, but not her. As someone pointed out, Kawalsky's used his name a number of times in the past.

After we watched Grace my normally laconic husband turned to me and said "Those two deserve whatever they get." Of course, being the secret shipper that he is, he did like Threads quite a bit.

After Grace, though, I felt a lot less sorry for Jack. Kerry was right. He's got issues.

I can definately see your point. And agree with some of it.

I liked Grace though - and not just for the BHK thought that's my fav part

I always felt that when she says "I was wondering when you were gonna show up" it was coz she'd seen everyone else that was very important to her and she knew, seeing as he is the MOST important person to her, that her befuddled mind would conjure him up eventually.

But they are so dysfunctuional!! I think you're right that Sam knows she'll never get a straight answer out of him, even if she was to straight out ask him he would dodge it somehow. When I think of APA's recent fic about that scene in Threads I think it's right, I think even there he was getting ready to shoot her down. So when she calls him Jack, it is definately a reprimand he gives her, I mean she actually apologises for it so she felt that too. We know it's not unusual for Jack to allow his subordinates - those he's close too - to call him Jack (we even know that he himself has called his CO's by their first names before too) but with Sam he won't allow it. I think he has a good reason - I think it's a way of protecting himself, just as he stops calling her Sam when he decides his feelings for are too deep and too dangerous. Sam seems to innately know this - she doesn't call him Jack under usual circumstances and she only did here coz she thoguht she was still hallucinating for a second - and I think she this helps her keep her distance too.

But yes, this final reprimand about the 'sir' thing decided her I think. To me she didn't need to figure out her feelings for him. IMHO she was very well aware by now that she was in love with him. I think it was the clincher that meade her decide to try to move on. To try to meet someone else in the hopes that her current feelings forhim would change or fade in the same way as I think she believed that his feelings for her faded after D&C. Jack's "excuse me?" serves to reinforce her belief that Jack doesn't love her anymore.

Threads to me isn't about her discovering her feeling for Jack or fionally realising that she loves Jack. I think she already knows this. For me it's about her realising that she can't be happy with 2nd best and about her coming to terms with the fact that it doesn't matter who she meets or dates or whatever; her feelings for Jack will never change or fade. She'll be in love with him always!!

Whoa... sorry ranted on a bit there Did that even have anything to do with your post VSS? probably not...but like I said my brain's on strike tonight

[AstraPerAspera]

Like Affinity, Grace is right a the top in terms of a study in emotional dysfunction, IMHO.
I don't like Grace except for the kiss which she still had to do in her mind inside a hallucination- talk about distancing!.

One thing that annoys me about Grace is when her hallucination of Jack tells her "Why don't you find out, if you really want to know?" Well, why doesn't he tell her if he really wants her to know? Because Sam knows it's always going to be up to her to find out how he feels, and even in Affinity, he can't give her a straight answer. On board that ship, she's exhausted and beat up, and here he is telling her she's got more work to do. In fact, she was less than thrilled to "see" him in the first place- "I was wondering when you were going to show up." How much of that statement was her present situation, and how much was her long-term emotional situation is hard to tell.

What was interesting was Sam's reaction at the end of Grace. She seemed genuinely tired of the "sir" thing and his constantly joking around. I agree that's when she made her choice. I know it was a necessary part of the story line so she could really figure out her feelings for Jack and create lots of angst for us, but in the end they both took what seemed like the easy way out- when it was actually the hard way.

And I agree he deliberatley corrected her when she called him "Jack." He didn't look the least bit surprised. He just couldn't cut her any slack- in fact he'd have let an injured airman get away with it in that situation, but not her. As someone pointed out, Kawalsky's used his name a number of times in the past.

After we watched Grace my normally laconic husband turned to me and said "Those two deserve whatever they get." Of course, being the secret shipper that he is, he did like Threads quite a bit.

After Grace, though, I felt a lot less sorry for Jack. Kerry was right. He's got issues.

You're right...Grace is really the first time you want to smack them both up-side the heads and say: "Hey! Work this out!"

And I had never thought of her as not being thrilled to see him when he appears on the ship, but that's a good read. In fact, I think the next thing she says is: "Here to give me a pep talk?" It could just be her situation, but...as she's been forced to confront the myriad sides of herself as manifested by the different people in her life, I think she was genuinely leary of what side of her Jack was going to address...Jack could either show up as her CO or as the man who once admitted to "feeling feelings" and caring about her "a lot more than he was supposed to". The fact that she starts him out in the former and then decides to confront him as the latter makes me think that her personal frustration level with him had about reached its threshold. There had been very little ship for quite a while...Skaara's invitation to his wedding and Jack's hemming and hawing about whether Sam was coming as his date, had to have been the only bit she would have seen (recall, she doesn't know the extent of his distress in Metamorphosis): a guy who's uncomfortable with the mere suggestion that they might have something more than just a friendship. Right before Grace is Evolution...and the "Lunch?" invitation...again...we see more there, but I think it would have been difficult for Sam to. So by Grace she's ready to confront whether he still has those feelings for her or not...

...until she has to in the flesh...and then it's not so easy...and when he pushes her away after just one word...

...yeah. Dysfunctional. You've got it pegged, VSS.

*still wants to smack S/J upside the head...*

[samcarterrules]

Hey Ship Family,

How's everyone?

Eps that make me emotional/cry lets see:
Singularity
ITLOD
Grace
D&C
LC
Heroes
NO pt2 (the torture scene with fifth)
Meridian
Abyss
Affinity (the ring scene, oh the angst)
Threads
LITS (serious Sam whump)
Unending (not to sad an ep in its self but being the last ep it made me cry)


And

helenmagnus23 Congrats on 200 posts

Julia(samcarterrules)

[mara-anni]

*sigh* I suppose you're right...it doesn't count if he doesn't hear it Oh well...it's still great to actually hear her say his name...

Oh wait...there's one more "Jack"...the 200 Wedding...not that it was real, but at least we heard it...

Oh...and btw, the AT interview Silkie posted was Part 1...so I imagine there will be a Part 2...she's answering viewers questions...and there are some spoiler clips from Trio there...(warning: McKay is...well...very McKay...but Sam puts him in his place in no uncertain terms). Anyway, I''m willing to bet that there will be a Jack question in there somewhere in the second part...

I only meant it doesn't count in the context of the discussion you guys were having earlier (last night?).

Coz you know I think I may have confessed to rewinding and replaying the times when she calls him Jack just for the pleasure of hearing her say it (and when he calls her Sam) and I really must stop admitting to that

I wasn't gonna mention that particular "Jack" coz it occured in...in...nope, I'm sorry APA, but I'm not emotionally strong enough to say it tonight - or to admit it's existence...Ahhh, gotta go to my happy place!

*recites - thereisnoS9&10 thereisnoS9&10 thereisnoS9&10

*feels better*

[AstraPerAspera]

I can definately see your point. And agree with some of it.

I liked Grace though - and not just for the BHK thought that's my fav part

I always felt that when she says "I was wondering when you were gonna show up" it was coz she'd seen everyone else that was very important to her and she knew, seeing as he is the MOST important person to her, that her befuddled mind would conjure him up eventually.

But they are so dysfunctuional!! I think you're right that Sam knows she'll never get a straight answer out of him, even if she was to straight out ask him he would dodge it somehow. When I think of APA's recent fic about that scene in Threads I think it's right, I think even there he was getting ready to shoot her down. So when she calls him Jack, it is definately a reprimand he gives her, I mean she actually apologises for it so she felt that too. We know it's not unusual for Jack to allow his subordinates - those he's close too - to call him Jack (we even know that he himself has called his CO's by their first names before too) but with Sam he won't allow it. I think he has a good reason - I think it's a way of protecting himself, just as he stops calling her Sam when he decides his feelings for are too deep and too dangerous. Sam seems to innately know this - she doesn't call him Jack under usual circumstances and she only did here coz she thoguht she was still hallucinating for a second - and I think she this helps her keep her distance too.

But yes, this final reprimand about the 'sir' thing decided her I think. To me she didn't need to figure out her feelings for him. IMHO she was very well aware by now that she was in love with him. I think it was the clincher that meade her decide to try to move on. To try to meet someone else in the hopes that her current feelings forhim would change or fade in the same way as I think she believed that his feelings for her faded after D&C. Jack's "excuse me?" serves to reinforce her belief that Jack doesn't love her anymore.

Threads to me isn't about her discovering her feeling for Jack or fionally realising that she loves Jack. I think she already knows this. For me it's about her realising that she can't be happy with 2nd best and about her coming to terms with the fact that it doesn't matter who she meets or dates or whatever; her feelings for Jack will never change or fade. She'll be in love with always!!

Whoa... sorry ranted on a bit there Did that even have anything to do with your post VSS? probably not...but like I said my brain's on strike tonight

Oh well said, mara...and I can see that, too (okay...I'm waffling this morning...) I could read it as either not being thrilled to see him, or wondering when she's finally going to get to see him...but I think even if she was waiting to see him it might be with some trepidation, cuz look at the emotions Jacob evoked from her...she's a little raw around the edges, and confronting her feelings for Jack had to be something she wasn't quite eager to do at that particular time...but there's no accounting where our subconscious will take us, I guess....

And your brain is working just fine...and VSS, you're not being irritating--you're being thought-provoking, which is good, cuz it gets us all thinking...and I'm the one who's bouncing back and forth like a pingpong ball...I think I need some breakfast...

[AstraPerAspera]

I only meant it doesn't count in the context of the discussion you guys were having earlier (last night?).

Coz you know I think I may have confessed to rewinding and replaying the times when she calls him Jack just for the pleasure of hearing her say it (and when he calls her Sam) and I really must stop admitting to that

I wasn't gonna mention that particular "Jack" coz it occured in...in...nope, I'm sorry APA, but I'm not emotionally strong enough to say it tonight - or to admit it's existence...Ahhh, gotta go to my happy place!

*recites - thereisnoS9&10 thereisnoS9&10 thereisnoS9&10

*feels better*

You can live in the State of Denial tonight, mara...methinks you've had a long day...

[VSS]

I can definately see your point. And agree with some of it.

I liked Grace though - and not just for the BHK thought that's my fav part

I always felt that when she says "I was wondering when you were gonna show up" it was coz she'd seen everyone else that was very important to her and she knew, seeing as he is the MOST important person to her, that her befuddled mind would conjure him up eventually.

But they are so dysfunctuional!! I think you're right that Sam knows she'll never get a straight answer out of him, even if she was to straight out ask him he would dodge it somehow. When I think of APA's recent fic about that scene in Threads I think it's right, I think even there he was getting ready to shoot her down. So when she calls him Jack, it is definately a reprimand he gives her, I mean she actually apologises for it so she felt that too. We know it's not unusual for Jack to allow his subordinates - those he's close too - to call him Jack (we even know that he himself has called his CO's by their first names before too) but with Sam he won't allow it. I think he has a good reason - I think it's a way of protecting himself, just as he stops calling her Sam when he decides his feelings for are too deep and too dangerous. Sam seems to innately know this - she doesn't call him Jack under usual circumstances and she only did here coz she thoguht she was still hallucinating for a second - and I think she this helps her keep her distance too.

But yes, this final reprimand about the 'sir' thing decided her I think. To me she didn't need to figure out her feelings for him. IMHO she was very well aware by now that she was in love with him. I think it was the clincher that meade her decide to try to move on. To try to meet someone else in the hopes that her current feelings forhim would change or fade in the same way as I think she believed that his feelings for her faded after D&C. Jack's "excuse me?" serves to reinforce her belief that Jack doesn't love her anymore.

Threads to me isn't about her discovering her feeling for Jack or fionally realising that she loves Jack. I think she already knows this. For me it's about her realising that she can't be happy with 2nd best and about her coming to terms with the fact that it doesn't matter who she meets or dates or whatever; her feelings for Jack will never change or fade. She'll be in love with always!!

Whoa... sorry ranted on a bit there Did that even have anything to do with your post VSS? probably not...but like I said my brain's on strike tonight

I think that those last few paragraphs express the situation beter mine did.

APA I do think she was not happy to see him on the ship, though. It was her tone of voice, not the words, that gave it away She knows he can't help her figure out how to get out of there- so she's thinking, "What are you here for?"

[mara-anni]

You're right...Grace is really the first time you want to smack them both up-side the heads and say: "Hey! Work this out!"

And I had never thought of her as not being thrilled to see him when he appears on the ship, but that's a good read. In fact, I think the next thing she says is: "Here to give me a pep talk?" It could just be her situation, but...as she's been forced to confront the myriad sides of herself as manifested by the different people in her life, I think she was genuinely leary of what side of her Jack was going to address...Jack could either show up as her CO or as the man who once admitted to "feeling feelings" and caring about her "a lot more than he was supposed to". The fact that she starts him out in the former and then decides to confront him as the latter makes me think that her personal frustration level with him had about reached its threshold. There had been very little ship for quite a while...Skaara's invitation to his wedding and Jack's hemming and hawing about whether Sam was coming as his date, had to have been the only bit she would have seen (recall, she doesn't know the extent of his distress in Metamorphosis): a guy who's uncomfortable with the mere suggestion that they might have something more than just a friendship. Right before Grace is Evolution...and the "Lunch?" invitation...again...we see more there, but I think it would have been difficult for Sam to. So by Grace she's ready to confront whether he still has those feelings for her or not...

...until she has to in the flesh...and then it's not so easy...and when he pushes her away after just one word...

...yeah. Dysfunctional. You've got it pegged, VSS.

*still wants to smack S/J upside the head...*

Now see that did have sometuing to do with VSS's post and it was brilliant APA...very well said!

*decides she will now shut up and provide pics*

Well Grace was mentioned so...

thanks Bev

[mara-anni]

Oh well said, mara...and I can see that, too (okay...I'm waffling this morning...) I could read it as either not being thrilled to see him, or wondering when she's finally going to get to see him...but I think even if she was waiting to see him it might be with some trepidation, cuz look at the emotions Jacob evoked from her...she's a little raw around the edges, and confronting her feelings for Jack had to be something she wasn't quite eager to do at that particular time...but there's no accounting where our subconscious will take us, I guess....

And your brain is working just fine...and VSS, you're not being irritating--you're being thought-provoking, which is good, cuz it gets us all thinking...and I'm the one who's bouncing back and forth like a pingpong ball...I think I need some breakfast...

Oh I do agree, she would definately feel some trepidation at seeing him for all the reasons you said here and in you're previous post about this.

Thanks VSS...I'm relieved I at least made some sense! And yes as you and APA said I don't think she was all that happy to see him but that she knew she innevitably would.

[AstraPerAspera]

Hate to leave, but girl-kid has the day off from school and wants me to take her to Bob Evans for breakfast... Guess we'd better get there before noon...

...mara, it's great to have you here! I'll be back tonight with SGA...I know I'm trying very hard not to get my expectations up about that ep, but I can't help it...I'm very excited .

And let's plan on 1969 for Sat night/Sun afternoon, anyone who wants to join in!

Night mara!

Catch you later, everyone!

[mara-anni]

Hate to leave, but girl-kid has the day off from school and wants me to take her to Bob Evans for breakfast... Guess we'd better get there before noon...

...mara, it's great to have you here! I'll be back tonight with SGA...I know I'm trying very hard not to get my expectations up about that ep, but I can't help it...I'm very excited .

And let's plan on 1969 for Sat night/Sun afternoon, anyone who wants to join in!

Night mara!

Catch you later, everyone!

What's Bob Evans?

Have fun with girl-kid today APA and yay I'll see you tonight

[mara-anni]

Well I'd better get to bed. Thanks for the discussion VSS.

Night shippers, I leave you with this offering....*shippy, heart swelling sigh*

[starlover]

Tsk Tsk Tsk--excuses excuses. A spoiler to me = revealing somebody who is about to face mortal danger and lose. Basically, don't tell me if you know somebody is gonna kick the bucket. I like the emotional shock I get when I watch the episode. LOL.

Yes, Ma'am. I will remember that for the next time *mind stamp...tell wendy when shippy news occurs*

Now see that did have sometuing to do with VSS's post and it was brilliant APA...very well said!

*decides she will now shut up and provide pics*

Well Grace was mentioned so...

thanks Bev

hmmmmmmmm....nice....drooly nice

And I just *had* to quote this
Finally weekend again...First week after vacation never fun ...

[Bekki]

ooh, Grace discussions! *jumps in*

One thing that annoys me about Grace is when her hallucination of Jack tells her "Why don't you find out, if you really want to know?" Well, why doesn't he tell her if he really wants her to know? Because Sam knows it's always going to be up to her to find out how he feels, and even in Affinity, he can't give her a straight answer. On board that ship, she's exhausted and beat up, and here he is telling her she's got more work to do. In fact, she was less than thrilled to "see" him in the first place- "I was wondering when you were going to show up." How much of that statement was her present situation, and how much was her long-term emotional situation is hard to tell.

I always felt that when she says "I was wondering when you were gonna show up" it was coz she'd seen everyone else that was very important to her and she knew, seeing as he is the MOST important person to her, that her befuddled mind would conjure him up eventually.

well, you just took the words out of my mouth, Mara...literally! See them

You can live in the State of Denial tonight, mara...methinks you've had a long day...

*shakes head* wow, for a minute there I thought you said Mara could stay in a state of Daniel...*teal'c eyebrow*

*gutter*

I think that those last few paragraphs express the situation beter mine did.

APA I do think she was not happy to see him on the ship, though. It was her tone of voice, not the words, that gave it away She knows he can't help her figure out how to get out of there- so she's thinking, "What are you here for?"

Right, out of the gutter and back to Grace. I think maybe Sam was not happy to see him because she was disappointed in herself for conjuring him in the first place. like Mara said, he was the most important person to her and he hadn't visited her yet. Maybe she was beginning to think that he wouldn't. I can imagine that the thought would be both horrible (because she luuurves him) and slightly comforting (thinking maybe she doesn't luuuuurve him). Then when he does come, she is disappointed with herself for being so glad that he came after all.

and thus ends another of Bekki's non-nonsensical explanations

[Bekki]

*yawns* Goodness, look at the time. I really must get some sleep.

Goodnight fair shippers, one and all! Hope you all enjoy SGA tonight *looks enviously at you all*

perhaps I shall dream up my own version

ooh, btw - I wrote a random drabble today (not even substantial enough to be called that) will post it tomorrow

*snores* g'night!