Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[parsifal]

"Ripple Effect"-related question:

Spoiler:

Whenever Jolinar's impact on Sam has been brought up in the past, there's never been any indication that those memories could actually compel action, right? I know they might have confused Sam's thinking processes, but she always remained in control, correct? It just seems a giant leap to suddenly have her overwhelmed. If Sam wanted to express her relief at seeing Martouf again, a hug would be appropriate. There's no way to justify a kiss.

[ses110]

I might be dreaming but I hope TPTB do the right thing in Season 10 after

Spoiler:

the Fan complaints for Season 9.I also hope to see Jack in Season 10.I think if the ratings continue to fall TPTB are going to have to do something and we may have a chance for a better Season 10.

[stargate barbie]

ok guys, i say don't worry about RE. anything that you might interpret as wrong in terms of the shows canon is very easily explained.

PDL directed this episode. he misinterpreted the script, and put a different slant on it than what was intended. the only other show so far this year that he has done is babylon.

Spoiler:

although i haven't actually seen it yet myself, i think everything in here that might show any sam/other ship was simply in the way it was directed. PDL's interpretation is basically that of a guy who's just been given a script to direct. he obviously wasn't in any meetings with joe to say who initiates the kiss, how do you think she should react and so on.

i think the reason we are getting mixed signals on this one is because of miscommunication. the director has his idea's, the actors have theirs, and the writer has his. and none of them have gone over it and made some common ground on it all.

i'm not saying anything bad about PDL, just that his interpretation of the ep doesn't match that of the original intention. remember, he was one of the guys that helped to start the s/j ship, so lets not be too mean. we can just give him one swift kick to the crotch each and let that be that!

also, based on this, i feel i should warn you all that PDL also directed Stronghold.

[ses110]

Your right parsifal.I heard some good explanations but at the end of the Day there is

Spoiler:

no excuse for Sam to almost Kiss Martouf.I hug or Kiss on the cheek is fine.Even if Sam/Jack are not together there was no indication Sam/Martouf had a romantic relationship.

[majorsal]

AUs can affect our reality, too-- sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. Unfortunately, Moebius and Ripple Effect may have changed our reality for the worse. Who knows what's canon anymore?

Are we gonna get a Bobby Ewing/Dynasty shower reset scene at the end of the season? With this crew, I wouldn't put it past them.

ship sistah

look, at this point, i'd take it!

tries to erase disappointments of current season




sally

[parsifal]

ok guys, i say don't worry about RE. anything that you might interpret as wrong in terms of the shows canon is very easily explained.

PDL directed this episode. he misinterpreted the script, and put a different slant on it than what was intended. the only other show so far this year that he has done is babylon.

Spoiler:

although i haven't actually seen it yet myself, i think everything in here that might show any sam/other ship was simply in the way it was directed. PDL's interpretation is basically that of a guy who's just been given a script to direct. he obviously wasn't in any meetings with joe to say who initiates the kiss, how do you think she should react and so on.

i think the reason we are getting mixed signals on this one is because of miscommunication. the director has his idea's, the actors have theirs, and the writer has his. and none of them have gone over it and made some common ground on it all.

i'm not saying anything bad about PDL, just that his interpretation of the ep doesn't match that of the original intention. remember, he was one of the guys that helped to start the s/j ship, so lets not be too mean. we can just give him one swift kick to the crotch each and let that be that!

also, based on this, i feel i should warn you all that PDL also directed Stronghold.

Spoiler:

The inclusion of the almost kiss in and of itself was inexplicable. That's not PDL's fault (I'm assuming).

[stargate barbie]

"Ripple Effect"-related question:

Spoiler:

Whenever Jolinar's impact on Sam has been brought up in the past, there's never been any indication that those memories could actually compel action, right? I know they might have confused Sam's thinking processes, but she always remained in control, correct? It just seems a giant leap to suddenly have her overwhelmed. If Sam wanted to express her relief at seeing Martouf again, a hug would be appropriate. There's no way to justify a kiss.

check out "The Tok'ra". listen to what sam says about the jolinar thing when she's talking to martouf. look how she reacts to him at first. look at "Divide and Conquer". even though this ep shows some very obvious s/j ship, it also shows that sam still has slightly confused feelings about martouf. look at the scene where he is trying to get her to do the proceedure to fix her... um... brain... whatever. the point is look at how she reacts whenever marty brings up his feelings about her. she reacts first with her jolinar memories, then with her reaction to her reaction, if you get what i'm trying to say.

(OT
and also a thought just struck me about D&C, if the machine detects false memories and thats how it says you're a zatarc, then why doesn't it interpret jolinars memories as being false memories in sam?

[minigeek]

My PRO SHIPPER Ripple Effect POV.

This is mostly cross posted from my mini review on SAmanda, but I thought I'd post here too. Just the Sam/Jack part.

Spoiler:

I've gone and read a lot of the previous comments regarding Martouf's scenes and those with Janet, and while I agree I'd have loved to see more of them (especially Janet), I think that was my only minor disappointment - and it wasn't even a viable one, more of a wistful "ah, if only there were more time...".

I know some Sam/Jack shippers were upset over the "almost kiss" between Marty and Sam, too, but I look at it this way.

Sam still has those remnant memories from Jolinar inside of her, and she was just beginning to try and reconcile those feelings when Martouf originally died. Bang. Gone - and she was the one who had to kill him. Huge unresolved issues there.

Now, suddenly, she saw him alive again. Put yourself in her shoes. The part of her that is still connected to Jolinar would probably have nearly wept for joy - OH MY GOD, HE'S NOT DEAD!. Think about it. Jolinar and Martouf were were lovers for hundreds of years; she'd have been out of her head with happiness to see him live. And that would definitely impact Sam. Include the fact that Sam really was attracted to Martouf, albeit in a burgeoning way, back then. She'd feel conflicted and happy and confused, and basically way off kilter. Add to that the feelings that anyone who's ever had an "ex" they loved a great deal (but are no longer with) always tends to feel around that person - and regardless of whether she was "with Jack" at this point or not, she definitely might still have kissed Martouf. I didn't have a problem with that at all. I didn't find it OOC, because of that.

One thing I do believe now (more than EVER) is that OUR Sam and OUR Jack are almost certainly together - in THIS reality.

Why?

Well, a few reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that Joe loves to be cryptic. Somesimes that works against the shipper POV, but not in this case, and here's my reasoning why.

In Joe's RE: Deleted Scenes piece up here on gateworkd, there was a part that said: "in the case of "Ripple Effect," I made of point of touching not only "the paths not taken," but "the paths taken" and "the paths to be taken."

I think Joe was trying pretty hard to infer Carter was with Jack in all of the "innuendo" scenes. The very fact he didn't mention Pete; or anyone else for that matter, was respectful to that assumption.

Also, her leaving Martouf, being with someone else in that other reality even *after* they made a go at a 'real' relationship? Who could it possibly be? Sam had far more chemistry and far more attraction to Martouf (IMHO) than she ever did to Pete, which means Pete was not the person she ended up with in Martouf's reality, he couldn't have been. So who was it?

Jack. It had to be Jack. There's no one else.

Joe said himself that he made a specific point to include hints in the script at not only what might have happened in the past, but what might still happen, and what was currently happening. I saw huge hints in this script that lead THIS shipper heart of mine to believe the reason TPTB have been so cloak and dagger with any overt mention of the Sam/Jack ship (in this reality) is because

... THEY'RE ALREADY MARRIED.

I know non shippers won't have seen it that way, but I certainly do. Even moreso when I read that Joe made Peter take that hand-holding scene between Cam and Sam out of the final cut, because he meant to infer a relationship, but "not that" one.

It just seemed like the great spirit of inference and innuendo was working on the Sam/Jack side for this episode.

And it would also explain why they're not writing overt S/J into any of the scripts. It could make for a very cool storyline down the road. Anni and I are on the same page with this, have been for a while, but this episode REALLy reinforced that line of thinking for us.

The spartan few canon hints we've had so far would really corroborate something like that. And hey ... imagine the possibilities once they do drop the bombshell, so to speak??

Married. Heh. Who knew?

mini(ever the shipper)geek

[stargate barbie]

Spoiler:

The inclusion of the almost kiss in and of itself was inexplicable. That's not PDL's fault (I'm assuming).

Spoiler:

but its possible that it was intended for martouf to initiate the kiss and sam to react and pull away, all i'm saying is that it may have been possible and intended for it to be shot a different way. it may have been imagined a different way when written.

i'm obviously giving an outside opinion here because i haven't seen it yet, and its entirely possible that on tuesday night i'll be in here ranting raving and generally going berserk and giving joe hell on his thread. i hope not, but its possible. oiy. i've got enough to worry about in the next few weeks without T.V. screwing me over too.

[parsifal]

check out "The Tok'ra". listen to what sam says about the jolinar thing when she's talking to martouf. look how she reacts to him at first. look at "Divide and Conquer". even though this ep shows some very obvious s/j ship, it also shows that sam still has slightly confused feelings about martouf. look at the scene where he is trying to get her to do the proceedure to fix her... um... brain... whatever. the point is look at how she reacts whenever marty brings up his feelings about her. she reacts first with her jolinar memories, then with her reaction to her reaction, if you get what i'm trying to say.

(OT
and also a thought just struck me about D&C, if the machine detects false memories and thats how it says you're a zatarc, then why doesn't it interpret jolinars memories as being false memories in sam?

I've tried to forget all of Martouf's scenes, so I don't remember them that well. She's always been aware of the presence of Jolinar's influence in these scenes, but has she ever acted without thinking, solely due to Jolinar?

[parsifal]

Spoiler:

but its possible that it was intended for martouf to initiate the kiss and sam to react and pull away, all i'm saying is that it may have been possible and intended for it to be shot a different way. it may have been imagined a different way when written.

Even if that's the way it was intended to play, I just don't see the benefit of including a scene like that outweighing the cost. It's not worth it. If it had played out as you said, I would still regret its inclusion.

i've got enough to worry about in the next few weeks without T.V. screwing me over too.

Me too. That's part of the reason this kind of childish crap from TPTB is so disappointing. Thank goodness for fanfic.

[stargate barbie]

I've tried to forget all of Martouf's scenes, so I don't remember them that well. She's always been aware of the presence of Jolinar's influence in these scenes, but has she ever acted without thinking, solely due to Jolinar?

yeah, i was never really overly fond of martouf, but i do remember these scenes. i interpret her desert scene with him in "tok'ra" as acting. also in jolinars memories and the devil you know, i think she did it (a teeny bit) there too. just not with marty. when they arrived on netu, she asked to see binar, and other little things too.
also in RE:

Spoiler:

maybe she was just checking to make sure there was no feelings there on her part. who knows. the possibilities are countless.

[stargate barbie]

yeah, i was never really overly fond of martouf, but i do remember these scenes. i interpret her desert scene with him in "tok'ra" as acting. also in jolinars memories and the devil you know, i think she did it (a teeny bit) there too. just not with marty. when they arrived on netu, she asked to see binar, and other little things too.
also in RE:

Spoiler:

maybe she was just checking to make sure there was no feelings there on her part. who knows. the possibilities are countless.

hey Minigeek, THANK YOU! great post. only one thing though

Spoiler:

i think the intension was to hint at Cams relationship with Lam too. (a ship that i am opposed to for the sole reason that their names rhyme. i'm very petty. at least thats the impression i get from reading what JM wrote on GW.

[STARGATE7777]

Did you ever notice on commentaries on DVD's that producers, actors and directors often comment on the episodes with surprise. I think that they work in small sections of the script, in different orders and sometimes more than one episode.

I think that it is often up to the actors or director during the filming to say something when a scene doesn't work. I believe that RDA had a talent for knowing what would come out right in a scene. I sometimes get the impression that this year they are sometimes just reading the scripts. They don't seem to react each other.

Anyway. This might be an explanation for the R.E. fiasco. Of course, I never saw the whole Martouf/Sam thing. I thought it was just wrong. It reminded me of someone falling for someone's dead sister just because there was some resemblance. To me, it was a bad experience for Sam and the only feelings that she truly had was guilt over killing him.

[stargate barbie]

oh, and PDL is also the director of Arthurs mantle, which is another sam and cam heavy story as far as i can tell. don't think i need to put spoilers on this, but if i do, let me know.