Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[JenniferJF]

I love the mirroring of the "Always" in Threads and the "Always there" in Grace. I just went through metamorphosis and the sleeping on the shoulder echoes back to BtS. Jack's face just reads Jonah/Thera flashback....vu ja da.

I also think the holding scene in Threads, besides being a definite call back to that of BtS, is also a call back to Death Knell. In both of the first episodes you can see they're not really relaxed, in BtS there's a tension and uncertainty from not really knowing everything and in Death Knell there's a hesitancy based on all that's stillbetween them.

And, of course, the beautiful thing about Threads is that barrier is finally down between them and they just relax into each other knowing that's exactly where they both belong, holding nothing of themselves back *sigh*

Like a parlor trick, it is. Say Threads or something I always tie back to it and watch me post

[AstraPerAspera]

I was reading Jenn's great interpretation of the "ring scene" and how Jack, in loving her, is setting her free. Jenn then mentions (of course) Threads where Jack says he'll "always" be there for Sam which triggered something for me.

I rewatched Grace tonight while writing and had forgotten that just before Sam's fantasy kiss with Jack, he says, "I will always be there for you, no matter what. Believe me."

Then in (wait for it Jenn) Threads, after she says, "Thank you for being here for me." He answers, "Always."

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice mirroring, eh?

Okay, so it's quarter to 3 and I've been writing nonstop for 9 hours. Maybe that makes more sense in my head! Good night family {{{{{}}}}}

Well Jenn already commented on this quite eloquently. I was just going to say that I always considered Threads to be almost a Grace-redux...only done right this time. There are certain beats and character moments that get replayed right out of Sam's hallucination, including her conversation with Jacob at the table which gets redone at his bedside in Threads, which, IMHO, suggest that it was a very deliberate pairing of the two episodes. And since, as Jenn pointed out, Sam gets the facts right but the interpretation wrong in Grace, in Threads she literally gets another chance at it.

And it comes out so much better the second time around.

[Skydiver]

there is a thread now for people to use to discuss the episodes of Vegas and Enemy at the Gate.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=62295

please keep your discussion confined to that one thread please until the episodes officially air.

thanks

[JenniferJF]

Well Jenn already commented on this quite eloquently. I was just going to say that I always considered Threads to be almost a Grace-redux...only done right this time. There are certain beats and character moments that get replayed right out of Sam's hallucination, including her conversation with Jacob at the table which gets redone at his bedside in Threads, which, IMHO, suggest that it was a very deliberate pairing of the two episodes. And since, as Jenn pointed out, Sam gets the facts right but the interpretation wrong in Grace, in Threads she literally gets another chance at it.

And it comes out so much better the second time around.

You betcha.

They actually make a specific point of highlighting the fact that it's 'Grace done right' when Jacob is talking to Sam in the infirmary and he almost word-for-word quotes her about 'done things most men have never dreamed of' and she says, "I've heard those words before..." Just in case, you know, someone didn't get it. And of course, as you said, she's given another chance at it. I tend to have goofy personal titles for various episodes and Threads alternate title is: The Great Waffle Episode, or Why One Should Never Make Life Altering Decisions Whilst Suffering Major Head Trauma.



It's interesting, IMHO (and probably only MHO) that Damien Kindler is credited for writing excerpts of Threads. I tend to assume those are the bits which directly call back to Grace, and which really he'd have to be credited with having originally written them. I'm dying to know, really, exactly how much he wrote - whether just the callback dialogue or some of the 'Sam Scenes.' I tend to think, as it's also a thematic reference to the events of Grace, that he wrote the scenes themselves, but who knows. Especially given it's since become obvious DK is exceptionally skilled at writing and understanding female characters and motivations and the entire thing seems far more his style than RCC's (the Jack bits, though, scream RCC imho)

In fact, if I ever had a chance to ask DK a question, that'd probably be it.

[Krissie678]

I haven't posted any pics in here in awhile so...





Edit: Yay! 3400 posts.

[elbarta]

I haven't posted any pics in here in awhile so...
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...rocadivide.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...-4x05-3399.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...-3x05-2356.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/h...-4x10-3517.jpg

Edit: Yay! 3400 posts.

Thanks for the picspam!

Congratulations on 3400!!!

[Xflsgrl]

It's interesting, IMHO (and probably only MHO) that Damien Kindler is credited for writing excerpts of Threads. I tend to assume those are the bits which directly call back to Grace, and which really he'd have to be credited with having originally written them. I'm dying to know, really, exactly how much he wrote - whether just the callback dialogue or some of the 'Sam Scenes.' I tend to think, as it's also a thematic reference to the events of Grace, that he wrote the scenes themselves, but who knows. Especially given it's since become obvious DK is exceptionally skilled at writing and understanding female characters and motivations and the entire thing seems far more his style than RCC's (the Jack bits, though, scream RCC imho)

In fact, if I ever had a chance to ask DK a question, that'd probably be it.

Now I'm curious.

[Seahen]

Yay! I'm a Captain I'm a Captain! *wonders if she can convince the mods to let her stay a Captain forever*

Although I did want to be a Goa'uld Lord.

Oh, right...

[Jumble]

From JM's blog 23/12/08

In conclusion - I received Brad’s Q&A tonight. I’ll be going over it and posting it in the coming days.

and

AndreaFWhite writes: “Merry Chrstmas Joe, can you provide some more information on how the SGA movie is progressing?”

Answer: Slowly.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/

[trinity3]

Hi Shippers.

Happy eve of Christmas Eve to all

Hello Shippers in a little OT conversation but i'll have to... things on RL is gettin' worst and this christmas is beign the wost ever... my granma moved to another hospital (this is the third always on different states) and my family is thinking about move her to an USA hospital, so i wont be able to be here around like everyday but i'll try to catch up always as i can at night... plus my family is here from holidays and i'll be very busy i really hope that all the things calm down ...

Rachel, I hope it all works out and things will calm down soon. I'm confident.

I think I have to disagree with the bit about him testing her. Jack knows only too well what Sam's feelings are for him. She's tried to tell him on several occasions prior to Affinity and he's turned her aside every time. So really, IMHO, he has no doubts whatsoever about what her probing means. And because he feels he's still doing what's best for her, he's deliberately vague in his response and side-steps what he knows she's really asking by giving her a non-answer.

I think, as you fill in the seasons leading up to this, it will all make a bit more sense.

I agree with you on this. I don't think Jack has ever tested Sam like that. It doesn't speak to his personality.

I can totally agree with him trying to stay neutral as his way of doing what's best for her, until he finally gets that she's wants him, not just the ideal of him but him, the man with all that he is and isn't.

[Solo]

I think I wrote my last comment (with the magic word "testing" in it) in a bit of a hurry It doesn't really sum up what I was getting at.

Basically, Jack's been hurt pretty badly over the years. He lost Sara because he couldn't open up to her after Charlie's death, so we already know he struggles on an emotional level. What he and Carter have is something that sort of transcends that, because when it boils down to it, they've both had the same military training that teaches them to suppress emotions - usually at very emotional moments. They're each very well aware the other has hidden depths - still waters, etc. When Sam shows him the ring, even her caveat of, "I've not said yes yet," indicates to him that she's suppressing emotion - strong ones - but he seems to assume that they're for Pete, rather than for him. Hence, "You haven't said no yet, either." He really thinks that she's in love with the guy. You're right, it isn't that he's testing her, but there are so many reasons why he can't be the one to confess his feelings first. And ordinarily I'm actually quite traditional - the guy should ask the girl out, it's just nice (also, I'm a coward) - but the guy DID ask the girl, quite a few times - he asked her to go fishing a whooole lot in 3/4, and she kept saying no. She's the one who shuts him down in D&C. She's the one who calls him "Sir" in BTS. In Entity, he does struggle very badly with the idea that he's killing her, and I think he comes to the conclusion in that episode that his feelings for her - which by now he may well think are not really requited to the degree he'd hope - could very well wind up endangering his team, at the very least - if not the base, Colorado Springs and the rest of the planet. Add in the fact that CO hitting on subordinate is just tacky, and Jack just wouldn't do it.

By this point, Jack could VERY easily be forgiven for assuming that Sam's feelings just aren't as strong as his, and that she'd moved on long ago and is now just a concerned close friend, just as much as Sam could be forgiven for the same thing. They both are trying very hard to protect themselves and each other from the fallout of something potentially very messy, but at the same time are so completely hopeless about each other that Sam getting into a relationship with Petato actually winds up preceding some of the shippiest episodes around almost purely because it places an artificial barrier between them, and allows them to lower slightly their own walls, both the ones that their military training imbue and the ones that they have both put up themselves, and show genuine concern for each other, because after all - she'd not cheat on Pete, and Jack would never make a move on someone else's girl. But the hugs and emotion get ratcheted up to the nth degree between Chimera and Threads, in Death Knell, Heroes, Lost City, New Order et al, and I think it's because the Pete construct actually allows them to be more themselves than they've been in a long time because "it's safe now".

PS I've been on my WOW guild forums all morning, and our server forums, and reading fan fic. My boss is sitting behind me playing flash games online. His boss just gave me a bottle of wine. Something tells me I'm going home early tonight

[Rachel500]

I think I wrote my last comment (with the magic word "testing" in it) in a bit of a hurry It doesn't really sum up what I was getting at.

Basically, Jack's been hurt pretty badly over the years. He lost Sara because he couldn't open up to her after Charlie's death, so we already know he struggles on an emotional level. What he and Carter have is something that sort of transcends that, because when it boils down to it, they've both had the same military training that teaches them to suppress emotions - usually at very emotional moments. They're each very well aware the other has hidden depths - still waters, etc. When Sam shows him the ring, even her caveat of, "I've not said yes yet," indicates to him that she's suppressing emotion - strong ones - but he seems to assume that they're for Pete, rather than for him. Hence, "You haven't said no yet, either." He really thinks that she's in love with the guy. You're right, it isn't that he's testing her, but there are so many reasons why he can't be the one to confess his feelings first. And ordinarily I'm actually quite traditional - the guy should ask the girl out, it's just nice (also, I'm a coward) - but the guy DID ask the girl, quite a few times - he asked her to go fishing a whooole lot in 3/4, and she kept saying no. She's the one who shuts him down in D&C. She's the one who calls him "Sir" in BTS. In Entity, he does struggle very badly with the idea that he's killing her, and I think he comes to the conclusion in that episode that his feelings for her - which by now he may well think are not really requited to the degree he'd hope - could very well wind up endangering his team, at the very least - if not the base, Colorado Springs and the rest of the planet. Add in the fact that CO hitting on subordinate is just tacky, and Jack just wouldn't do it.

By this point, Jack could VERY easily be forgiven for assuming that Sam's feelings just aren't as strong as his, and that she'd moved on long ago and is now just a concerned close friend, just as much as Sam could be forgiven for the same thing. <snippity-snip>

I think it's because the Pete construct actually allows them to be more themselves than they've been in a long time because "it's safe now".

<snipped>

You see I don't think Jack ever took Sam's lack of a positive response in season 3/4, her suggestion of leaving it in the room, or her reversion to sir after BTS to be an indicator that she didn't love him. I think he accepted that she was being the 'strong' one to some degree and holding the line they needed to keep in order to keep the team together, and perform their mission with the best possible chance of success by having them both be on SG1. I think he knew deep down that some of it was her fear of progressing something real with him and I think deep down a part of Jack (that part of him which was also scared silly at the idea of progressing into a real relationship with Sam) was also relieved.

I think right up until Entity, Jack knew Sam loved him and I think she knew he loved her.

But Entity was the watershed: I firmly believe that Jack believed post Entity that he had placed Sam in danger with his feelings for her; that in order to better protect her (and subconsciously himself) from further danger that they needed to reinstate their professional boundaries and he needed to hide how he felt - from her, from the world, from the universe - because to love her openly placed her in too much danger, left him in a corridor with a zat pointed at her and the prospect of killing the woman he loved.

However, I do think that through Season 5 Jack did probably question whether Sam had done what he had probably insisted on post-Entity (whether verbally or through his own 'hiding of feelings') and moved on; whether she still loved him that way especially after Orlin and Jack's likely assumptions about their relationship.

But I think by the time Chimera rolled round, Jack suspected that Sam's feelings for him had returned - because his own were clearly not going anywhere - and I think that Sam suddenly dating Pete was a shock. Yet I think he then assumed that this was another attempt by her to move on and understood to some degree why.

By Affinity, I think Jack knew Sam still had some feelings for him but was trying to move on, and he wasn't going to muddy the waters for her decision making with his own, (a) because he didn't want to stop her from moving on believing that it was the best thing for her and (b) because Sam needed to make the decision for herself regardless of his feelings.

As Jenn said, it was only when Sam was right in front of him, emotionally bleeding because she was so unhappy that Jack realised his letting go of her wasn't what she wanted or, more importantly, needed.

I do agree though that I think 'Pete' did allow Jack and Sam through the rest of S7 and to some degree in S8 to 'relax' a little around each other but they never really do relax enough to fully allow the other to see the truth - even in Death Knell he can't hold her completely - his hand hovers above her shoulder.

[sg-1fanintn]

Just popped in for a moment to share my wallpaper for this week. It's on my computers at home and work...

Spoiler:

See ya later tonight!

P. S. Hurrah! Jumble's back!!!

[Solo]

LOL! That's a brilliant pic, sg-1fanintn!

[starlover]

Just popped in for a moment to share my wallpaper for this week. It's on my computers at home and work...

Spoiler:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...J-Christma.jpg

See ya later tonight!

P. S. Hurrah! Jumble's back!!!

Aww that is so cute...new way of Sound of Music And the Christmas tree...Sweet!