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    Originally posted by VSS View Post
    Thanks for posting that. In general I don't like listening to podcasts, so thatnks for taking the time.

    I also have to add that I've quit worrying about GW fans who don't like the S/J ship. I bet that if someone did a study they would find that the characteristics of fandom differ markedly from everyone who watches Stargate and/or buys the DVDs, in many ways.

    And secondly, TPTB will do what they want. I think they can be influenced by fans if it's not too much trouble or doesn't change the story too much. But I really think they can only be pushed in a direction they want to go.



    Well, i haven't watched all of season 9 or 10, but I have to agree with you here, and Jenn's post as well. For one thing, I watched the eps out of order and was really struck by the changes in Sam at the end of the series. It had to be deliberate.

    On the flip side, I've heard several people give the same reason for Jack's malaise in season 8. That RDA was "phoning in" his lines or something like that, because he was unhappy working. But there were other reasons for the character to be unhappy- he's just pushing paper, risking other people's lives, he knows Sam's with Pete. That's plenty of reason for Jack to be less than enthusiastic and to be withdrawn, and that's also how I'd expect him to deal with it- without a lot of drama.

    As someone who doesn't keep up with what actors are doing off the screen I would never, ever have thought there were any personal issues going on that accounted for any of the character's personality changes over the years. Instead I thought "Well, that makes sense." I certainly wouldn't want to go looking for personal reasons regarding why Daniel's changed so much, that's for sure!

    Also, I think that if there's one profession that's the least likely to let their personal life affect their work, it's got to be actors. After all, when someone covers up what they really think, we call it "putting on an act." It's an actor's job to do that for a living, and I would think they'd be quite good at it.
    I agree with you here. Any actor worth their spit is able to put their personal stuff behind them for the show. At least - the non-life threatening kinda stuff. Now - RDA isn't my favourite actor in the universe, but he does Jack justice. I think, even if he didn't enjoy working - it didn't really show. It could be easily passed off as his character's unhappiness. When I watched season 8, it never occured to me that RDA was 'phoning it in', so it me - it's the character. And if RDA used his own personal stuff to bring that out, all the power to him!

    With AT, I think it's a little different. She has often said that it has felt like Sam has grown up with her, grown into herself as a woman. That the lines between them have blurred over the years. So - it's safe to assume that even though AT can draw the line between herself and her character, her own personality is likely to affect Sam's - in the same way that Sam changed from that Yikes Gung ho feminist into the woman we all know and love. A lot of that is AT's influence on Sam.

    But still (no idea if I'm making sense, here) Sam's happiness does have reasons. For the first time, she has everything. Even though I'm sure she'd prefer peace and stillness, I think Sam craves the adventure of being on SG1. In season 9, she gets everything she loves. Jack, SG1, adventure...although i think around Line in the Sand, she loses that craving for SG1. I think she just wants peace. So in the same way that we can say "Who cares if RDA phoned it in - we can still see that it's Jack, not him" we can do the same with AT. Yeah she had a baby, yeah Sam has become a lot more like AT, but Sam has just as many reasons to be happy as AT does.

    And I think with acting, putting yourself away and becoming someone else drives away those personal issues for a while. I've never found that personal stuff creeps into my work, because I'm not me when I play someone else. My problems just don't exist. And it's easy.

    (hmm - that may have made sense...)
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      Originally posted by Aveo_amacus View Post
      sp for space





      Yep I agree, um actually on all points you both made!
      Cam's the gung-ho younger brother, you can see that in the scene where Sam's explaining the link to the crystal skull and Cam's read all the mission reports.
      Personal lives wise, I completely agree, good point VSS, as you say actors. - I mean personally I didn't see Daniel suddenly getting happy after MS's son was born, whereas Sam did, as we all know how amazing an actress AT is I can't believe that her daughter would be the reason Sam would be happy.
      See, I didn't even know MS had a kid! And I heard some kind of rumors about Daniel and Dr. Lam, but I never could put that one together either.

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        Originally posted by Bekki View Post
        I agree with you here. Any actor worth their spit is able to put their personal stuff behind them for the show. At least - the non-life threatening kinda stuff. Now - RDA isn't my favourite actor in the universe, but he does Jack justice. I think, even if he didn't enjoy working - it didn't really show. It could be easily passed off as his character's unhappiness. When I watched season 8, it never occured to me that RDA was 'phoning it in', so it me - it's the character. And if RDA used his own personal stuff to bring that out, all the power to him!

        With AT, I think it's a little different. She has often said that it has felt like Sam has grown up with her, grown into herself as a woman. That the lines between them have blurred over the years. So - it's safe to assume that even though AT can draw the line between herself and her character, her own personality is likely to affect Sam's - in the same way that Sam changed from that Yikes Gung ho feminist into the woman we all know and love. A lot of that is AT's influence on Sam.

        But still (no idea if I'm making sense, here) Sam's happiness does have reasons. For the first time, she has everything. Even though I'm sure she'd prefer peace and stillness, I think Sam craves the adventure of being on SG1. In season 9, she gets everything she loves. Jack, SG1, adventure...although i think around Line in the Sand, she loses that craving for SG1. I think she just wants peace. So in the same way that we can say "Who cares if RDA phoned it in - we can still see that it's Jack, not him" we can do the same with AT. Yeah she had a baby, yeah Sam has become a lot more like AT, but Sam has just as many reasons to be happy as AT does.

        And I think with acting, putting yourself away and becoming someone else drives away those personal issues for a while. I've never found that personal stuff creeps into my work, because I'm not me when I play someone else. My problems just don't exist. And it's easy.

        (hmm - that may have made sense...)
        I think that what you're getting at here is that an actor can harness what goes on in their personal life and bring it to the character. I certainly do believe that. I think that's why Jack and Sam have such great chemistry, because RDA and AT seem to genuinely like each other. But they do it consciously, as a creative choice. Not because they can't help it- and only if that kind of personality change is called for.

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          Originally posted by VSS View Post
          I think that what you're getting at here is that an actor can harness what goes on in their personal life and bring it to the character. I certainly do believe that. I think that's why Jack and Sam have such great chemistry, because RDA and AT seem to genuinely like each other. But they do it consciously, as a creative choice. Not because they can't help it- and only if that kind of personality change is called for.
          Yes (my brain does seem to make short things go for ever and not make much sense) As long as it's a conscious choice to bring their personal lives to their characters, there is nothing wrong with it. (Although I'm not a fan of that technique as it can bring you out of your character ad back to yourself, which I suppose is what people have accused RDA and AT of...but...I don't...so...that's...that...)
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            Originally posted by VSS View Post
            See, I didn't even know MS had a kid! And I heard some kind of rumors about Daniel and Dr. Lam, but I never could put that one together either.
            Daniel OT
            Spoiler:
            yeah the actress who plays Dr. Lam and MS had a son at the beginning of S10 - why she's not in the first half.
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              *pops in briefly*

              Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
              WELCOME TO THE THREAD, FLOW!!
              What I love about Arthur's Mantle is a) AT gets the funny lines b) Sam is so confident and relaxed and happy despite the danger and c) it's clear Sam, Teal'c and Daniel think of Cam as a bit of a joke and find his attempts at action and heroism rather annoying and faintly amusing and don't really take him seriously. a) is self-explanatory. c) I see in Sam's reaction to Cam's wanting food all the time and her generally treating him like a rather gung-ho and annoying younger brother, Daniel's almost rolling his eyes and Sam's exasperated reaction back at him when she tells him Cam went through the 'gate with Teal'c, and Teal'cs entire attititude towards Cam including his willingness to punch him to test what phase he's in.

              And, though I know some have given up on the writers, producers, and directors and believe them to be a bunch of hacks with no interest in telling complete and cohesive stories, or in controlling the reactions of the actors, and don't believe Amanda Tapping is a professional enough actress to determine her characters moods and reactions based on the events in the characters life and her personality, but rather on her own personality, I personally do not believe this to be the case. In all honesty, if I believed that, I wouldn't be here.. I'd be watching some other show and talking about it. Because, really, then what's the point? And I'm not talking about those who still have hope but suffer doubt... I'm talking about those who really seem to despise TPTB and the actress who brought us the ship. Cause since they're everyone but RDA who created the thing in the first place, if I thought they were worthless, why bother?

              And, since I still have faith that TPTB know what they're doing, and am still a fan of the show and the actors after RDA left, I have to believe they know what they're doing and have specific reasons for things like character changes. Which means the obvious changes in Sam's character, like her no longer living for work and being generally happy and confident, have a reason which has been thought out and is intentional on her part, the director's part, the writer's part, and that the producers allow to be shown. And the ONLY coherent reason for it suggested in-story is that she's with Jack now. Which is part - not all - of why I'm convinced she is.

              Cause I love this show. And I love this story. And I love this ship. And if I didn't, I obviously wouldn't be here....
              Originally posted by VSS View Post
              Thanks for posting that. In general I don't like listening to podcasts, so thatnks for taking the time.

              I also have to add that I've quit worrying about GW fans who don't like the S/J ship. I bet that if someone did a study they would find that the characteristics of fandom differ markedly from everyone who watches Stargate and/or buys the DVDs, in many ways.

              And secondly, TPTB will do what they want. I think they can be influenced by fans if it's not too much trouble or doesn't change the story too much. But I really think they can only be pushed in a direction they want to go.



              Well, i haven't watched all of season 9 or 10, but I have to agree with you here, and Jenn's post as well. For one thing, I watched the eps out of order and was really struck by the changes in Sam at the end of the series. It had to be deliberate.

              On the flip side, I've heard several people give the same reason for Jack's malaise in season 8. That RDA was "phoning in" his lines or something like that, because he was unhappy working. But there were other reasons for the character to be unhappy- he's just pushing paper, risking other people's lives, he knows Sam's with Pete. That's plenty of reason for Jack to be less than enthusiastic and to be withdrawn, and that's also how I'd expect him to deal with it- without a lot of drama.

              As someone who doesn't keep up with what actors are doing off the screen I would never, ever have thought there were any personal issues going on that accounted for any of the character's personality changes over the years. Instead I thought "Well, that makes sense." I certainly wouldn't want to go looking for personal reasons regarding why Daniel's changed so much, that's for sure!

              Also, I think that if there's one profession that's the least likely to let their personal life affect their work, it's got to be actors. After all, when someone covers up what they really think, we call it "putting on an act." It's an actor's job to do that for a living, and I would think they'd be quite good at it.
              And just quoting both of these to agree wholeheartedly and to say very very well said, both of you and everyone else who's chipped in to agree. There's really nothing I can add, so I won't, but thank you both of you for this.

              *sneaks back out again*
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              Artwork for All | Sig & avi by JadedWraith

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                Oh - before i go to bed,

                Thank you Eve, for organizing Secret Santa!!!

                Weee! It's just so...Christmassy, and fun...and...SECRET!!!!

                *hugs the ship family and says goodnight*....Goodnight
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                  Originally posted by Aveo_amacus View Post
                  Daniel OT
                  Spoiler:
                  yeah the actress who plays Dr. Lam and MS had a son at the beginning of S10 - why she's not in the first half.
                  I really never thought Daniel and Dr. Lam had a thing for each other, though.

                  Edit: Just to make sure I stay OT here, what I'm trying to say with all of these posts is that I think Sam changed during seasons 9 & 10 because she finally was happy personally. And as much as I hate to say it, I think it did her good to get away from Jack professionally. I don't think she was ever going to come in to her own with him around, for a lot of reasons.
                  Last edited by VSS; 28 November 2008, 05:00 AM.

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                    Originally posted by VSS View Post
                    I really never thought Daniel and Dr. Lam had a thing for each other, though.
                    no exactly my thoughts, which just proves our point really doesn't it
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                      Originally posted by Aveo_amacus View Post
                      no exactly my thoughts, which just proves our point really doesn't it
                      Exactly!

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                        Originally posted by VSS View Post
                        Atlantis is different fron SG-1, and whatever motives they have for the romance between McKeller are different from S/J (aren't you glad no one has ever made a portmanteau out of Carter and O'Neill? Although I'm starting to think "O'later" would be really apt!). I don't think any conclusions can be drawn between the two.

                        Although, I have to point out that TPTB knew that people were just as divided on McKeller as they've been on Sam and Jack. And they did it anyway. So really, I'm happy for the McKeller fans since I've quit caring about Atlantis in general. i think it bodes well for us.
                        No, i prefer Sam and Jack! O'Carter doesn't works for me

                        I just think that all that MacKeller thing that did PTB is not fair for Sam and Jack. They've made one season relationship insted to continue (in good way!) one of the greatest relationships ever.It obiviously that Sam and Jack have more fans that McKay and Keller. And if TPTB won't do at least the same thing that they do with McKeller it'll be their the biggest mistake

                        As for McKay, i like him more in s1,2,3,4 then in 5. He's not like he is there, IMHO
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                          Originally posted by Blacky Kitten View Post
                          No, i prefer Sam and Jack! O'Carter doesn't works for me

                          I just think that all that MacKeller thing that did PTB is not fair for Sam and Jack. They've made one season relationship insted to continue (in good way!) one of the greatest relationships ever.It obiviously that Sam and Jack have more fans that McKay and Keller. And if TPTB won't do at least the same thing that they do with McKeller it'll be their the biggest mistake

                          As for Mackey, i like him more in s1,2,3,4 then in 5. He's not like he is there, IMHO
                          McKeller is just not the same thing as Sam and Jack. It just isn't, just like Atlantis isn't SG-1. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I wish I could explain it better because I'd like to cheer you up! But what happens on Atlantis has no bearing on what happens on SG-1, they have separate arcs, so it's hard for me to feel anything about McKay and Keller, one way or the other.

                          In a way, the shows are reflective of the ships. Atlantis to me has never been as complex or interesting as SG-1. Think of all those layers of meaning APA talks about regarding S/J- well, I think it's true of the shows as well. And I'm really, really glad TPTB would take their time and (hopefully) make something really great out of it in the end, rather than a one-season wonder.

                          And I really think that they will. If for no other reason than they want to sell movies. Because I;d be willing to bet that the the single most frequently asked question in all of SG-1 history is "What ever happened to Sam and Jack?" (Followed very closely by "Who are the Furlings?" )

                          Edit: Nah, I take that back. The Furlings are definitely in first place!

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                            Originally posted by VSS View Post
                            McKeller is just not the same thing as Sam and Jack. It just isn't, just like Atlantis isn't SG-1. It's like comparing apples and oranges. I wish I could explain it better because I'd like to cheer you up! But what happens on Atlantis has no bearing on what happens on SG-1, they have separate arcs, so it's hard for me to feel anything about McKay and Keller, one way or the other.

                            In a way, the shows are reflective of the ships. Atlantis to me has never been as complex or interesting as SG-1. Think of all those layers of meaning APA talks about regarding S/J- well, I think it's true of the shows as well. And I'm really, really glad TPTB would take their time and (hopefully) make something really great out of it in the end, rather than a one-season wonder.
                            Another shipper - who I'll let self-identify if she chooses - and myself had an offline talk about SGA/SG1 and McKeller/S/J in which we said much the same thing. SGA has always been more 'popcorn fare' than SG1. Maybe it's because SGA was born on Sciffy, or for a different demographic, or because they set off to make it intentionally different than SG-1 cause they didn't need an exact copy of SG-1. And don't get us wrong, we're both fans of SGA. It's just.. different.

                            In the same way, the two ships, as you say, reflect their shows. McKeller is nice and sweet and has done good things for the growth of both characters involved. Yet, it's never going to be more than an "aww.. that's sweet (or funny, or nice, or cute...)." It's pure fluff with a bit of gutter, and just doesn't have the depth and breadth and angst of S/J.

                            So it really is comparing apples and oranges. Though it does confirm what we've pretty much known all along: at the end of the day, TPTB will tell the story they want to tell. Which, IMHO, tends to bode well for S/J, as they did, in fact, start that ship sailing in the first place. It's just S/J has never been meant to be overt or fluffy, but subtle and angsty. Yeah, I'd like confirmation of resolution, but if I want simply fluffy and sweet and fun, I can watch SGA. And I do. But that's now what SG-1 is about.

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                              Since there are so many talented people on this thread and so many more of us who enjoy their work, I thought you all might like to know that the 2008 Stargate Fan Awards are now excepting nominations. This includes not only fanfic but videos and artwork as well. Be sure to check it out.

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                                Originally posted by Blacky Kitten View Post
                                <snip>

                                Egle, join?
                                Darn, I wasn't around. Maybe next time?

                                Originally posted by JackandSamAddict View Post
                                Welcome Flow!!
                                Welcome!
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