Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[leiasky]

While I agree that it's too soon to promote Jack again, I must say I'm absolutely thrilled with his 3 stars and I love how he's portrayed on SGU. He's back to being a tough, demanding, intelligent military commander of seasons 1-6. Finally.

Yeah. I very much enjoy seeing thr tough military side of the man who has done some damn distasteful things over the course of his career.

And it probably makes me a bad shipper, but I don't want him to retire just yet.

I don't want him to retire yet either. So I'll be bad right along with you.

But remember -- bad is always better

See, I wholeheartedly disagree. Sam was promoted fairly recently, IIRC for her command of Atlantis? In-verse that would mean about 3-4 years ago - it's much too soon for another promotion, especially to a general. But then I know squat about the military so I can be wrong. I really don't think she's ready anyway.

I agree. She's a perfectly capable commander but I really don't think she's ready to be a General sitting behind a desk. Because - really, are Generals out on the front lines? No. They command those on the front lines

Besides I like her in command of Hammond, and I found this "chair scene" in AoT incredibly OoC..but then I'm one of the folks who thought she should have been in charge of SG-1 during the last 2 seasons and found her meek acceptance of Mitchell's command OOC too.

A lot of her behaviour in the last two seasons didn't keep with her established character traits from the first eight seasons.

OT SGU

Spoiler:

But it isn't something that SGU made up. The exact same thing happened in SG-1 in season 10. In "Insiders" Barret was revealed to had been brainwashed much like Teal'c in "Enemies" and then in the next episode, "Uninvited", it was said that he was already back to normal, having beaten his brainwashing. It was never explained how, but I guess this was the precedense.

Besides there are many theories what kind of brainwashing was used on Telford (Za'tarc, Nish'ta chemicals, Apophis' way from "Enemies" or Baal's from "Stronghold", just off the top of my head) and therefore it's impossible to claim that suffocating shouldn't work. Just my 2 cents.

I'm glad to hear that whatever went on with Telford does have some SG history behind it. I don't remember 'Insiders' but I've only watched season 9 and 10 episodes (unless they had Jack in them!) once.

[hlndncr]

Besides I like her in command of Hammond, and I found this "chair scene" in AoT incredibly OoC..but then I'm one of the folks who thought she should have been in charge of SG-1 during the last 2 seasons and found her meek acceptance of Mitchell's command OOC too.

Actually I agree with you here. I think the show did a disservice to Sam's character in S9&10 and AoT. But I really don't care for the Ori arc and I avoid it almost as astudiously as I do SGU.

I still don't think that the Hammond command really fits Sam, but since she didn't get to keep SG1 and she was fired from Atlantis at least she has a command!

[Petra]

Actually I agree with you here. I think the show did a disservice to Sam's character in S9&10 and AoT. But I really don't care for the Ori arc and I avoid it almost as astudiously as I do SGU.

Oh, I agree. Pretty much everybody who knows me will tell you that I hate the last 2 seasons and what they did to the characters with passion (Just check out my rants in the team thread, )

Except I really dig SGU.

I still don't think that the Hammond command really fits Sam, but since she didn't get to keep SG1 and she was fired from Atlantis at least she has a command!

Tbh, the Hammond command has grown on me. At first I wasn't thrilled with the idea and I thought it's a step down/demotion after Atlantis, but eventually I came to like it.

[sg-1fanintn]

Aaaaahhh.....SyFy aired Camelot today...one of the S9 eps I find enjoyably rewatchable. It was the S9 finale, and as Sam floated out there in space, I remember thinking, "Arrrggghhhhh! She's going to be floating out there 'til July!!!" That was unacceptable to me...so before I went to bed that night, I crafted my own ending:*

Camelot Episode Tag

And after that, I slept much better.

* Shameless self-promotion

[sg-1fanintn]

Hey everyone!
It's been a long time since I've posted on this thread and I've noticed that a number of you have seemed to have disappeared. I guess that is to be expected as people move on! Ultimately I just popped in to say that I'm still behind the ship waiting patiently for confirmation. I'm sure there are plently of people just like me out there, hopefully one day soon we'll hear something...

I disappeared for about 2-3 months myself, but I'm back now. Good to see you here too!

[IggyMing]

While I agree that it's too soon to promote Jack again, I must say I'm absolutely thrilled with his 3 stars and I love how he's portrayed on SGU. He's back to being a tough, demanding, intelligent military commander of seasons 1-6. Finally.

I agree. It's great to see Jack as a Lt-Gen.... I think he deserves it. As for Sam, it's probably too soon to see her rise to a Brig-Gen, but I can certainly see that happening down the road. I'd love to see her command the SGC (and not just temporarily as she did on the last ep of SGA) some day.

[Nynaeve506]

Rain! I wish! It's going to be 110 degrees here today! Thank heavens for my pool!

So, Sam and Jack. Swimming or not? I mean, when the fishing is done. . .

This is Minnesota - I guarantee it doesn't even break 100 (dude, I'm dying here at like 90 and I used to live in Florida!!!). I vote swimming

OT SGU:

Spoiler:

And wasn't that a beautiful moment? Though I'll admit I find it hard to believe anyone could rise to the rank of Colonel and be quite so whiny. "My dad can beat up your dad" is a bit too much coming from someone that advanced in their career. Though I do get the impression said career was on a bit of shaky ground to begin with. And I'll admit that, within the context of the show, it didn't seem out of place. Like you said, it was beautiful seeing him put in his place.

And SGU not quite so off-topic:

Spoiler:

Though I'll admit part of me thinks the entire exchange between Sam and Jack (the "I'm sorry, Sam" and "Yes, sir," over the loss of pilots) was put in there as a quick way of covering (without a lot of time-consuming messy exposition about the responsibilities and differences of being 'in command') the potential discrepancy between Jack's holding up Sam's abandonment of her two F302 pilots as an example of the sort of decisions Young should be making and the classic 'leave no one behind' philosophy they'd been espousing on SG-1.

Not that that makes the fact he said it any less suggestive or significant, just I can't help thinking the true motivation for that exchange was to make Jack (and Sam) appear less heartless during that later scene by showing their emotion over it earlier.

EDIT: And back to *completely* off-topic spoilers:

Spoiler:

And when a friend asked me from what incident Young learned that a near-death experience would free Telford from the outside influence, I answered, "Requiem".

SGU Young talk

Spoiler:

Egads Young so deserved it.

Spoiler:

I will refrain from saying who I think she falls under. . .

Wow. Where, oh where has my good girl gone???

Falls? I thought it was serves under?

I think that the whole "knees" issue was in there because of RDA's knees issues. Kind of like certain pregnancies. . .

Anyhoo.

My theory is that the sarcophagus will heal acute conditions, and chronic ones for a time. But chronic conditions that are programmed into one's DNA will return. So, if you have problems with your eyes, then they will return again, as we've seen with Daniel still needing his glasses. Jack's knees are an on-going issue. Presumably, the same things that make them "go bad" in the first place will return to wreak havoc on them when there's no sarcophagus to heal them for a time.

I've always understood that the sarcophagus required constant use hence the Goa'uld having some major evil issues. The law of diminishing returns or something...

OT Sims:

Spoiler:

All this Sim talk is amusing me. I don't play the game, but my mother does and she has a Remington Steele Sim, proving we're not the only ones. Poor man died at one point in a tragic hot tub accident (so it's sort of related to several of our convos here today) and she sweet talked my brother into sending her the programmer codes so she could resurrect him or some such (and make him better/stronger/whatever.) Which is sort of like having a sarcophagus I suppose.

And vaguely on topic: Just finally watched SGU with hubs. Isn't it annoying how some guys will comment during the quiet parts and then get mad if you try to talk during the action sequences. I mean... What are you going to miss?

*sigh*

Men.

Sims OT

Spoiler:

I always wanted to play it but I have yet to have a computer that can handle it... the one time I did play the Sims (2 I think) I ended up having the woman marry every man in town, trap him in a room in a secret house I made out back with no doors and then when I got bored I had them start a fire in a room full of wicker furniture...

I'm going to spoiler this as OT and SGU:

[SPOILERS] Well that make more sense than just coming out of the blue, but it wouldn't be the first time something just suddenly came up in SGU

Spoiler:

Like we can now control the communication stones.

Communication stones

Spoiler:

I don't think it's that they control them so much as they found a set that works with each other. I mean, they've found a lot of stuff over the years, I don't think it's that implausible that, like us and our cell phones, that the Ancients didn't make a lot of them (in pairs). So - great receptions, but it doesn't do apps and you still get dropped calls (like when you jump to FTL). What's up with that?!

My thoughts on Young in SGU

Spoiler:

I don't think it's so far off that you end up with a guy like him as a Colonel. I mean, in any field you have people get promoted just because they're there long enough. It could very well be that Young hasn't ever been in a real combat command where he's ever had to make a super hard decision. Telford was in charge of the 302 pilots, I get the feeling that they didn't really expect anything to happen at Icarus and it's certainly plausible that he took the position trying to fix a career that was out the door. Besides, *most* people (career military) retire at the rank of Lt. Colonel (just as a side rant, I once didn't make it through the first chapter of a fic because they had Sam being harassed at boot camp for being the daughter of a Lt. Col at the time... the author never responded when I pointed out that it wasn't a very uncommon rank)... but I digress... so he might have been on his way out as it was.

My thoughts on SGU F-302

Spoiler:

When it comes to leaving people behind it was always unrealistic. It's the ideal to strive for but as Spock points out the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. We saw the planet explode within half a second of Sam jumping to hyperspace. In early SG-1 there was always a last minute save. But there isn't always a last minute save. Sometimes people die. A lot of times people die. What makes a *good* commander is someone who can make that decision which is why I thought Young's dressing down was very well deserved. Sam left her pilots because because there was nothing she could do - Young sacrificed Destiny and everyone on board because he didn't have the guts to do what needed to be done. It's cold, but conflict is messy.

To be fair too - you have to make quick decisions and it's easy to criticize in hindsight (which is what makes the IoA so damn irritating). Young had a few minutes to make a decision - it was a gamble and he lost.

[Nynaeve506]

I have to confess that I really enjoyed the last two seasons of SG-1 and AoT. Sam didn't originally intend to come back permanently and command of SG-1 had been offered to Cam (as in, he could assemble any team he wanted, he chose the original members). I choose to take a shippy interpretation that she had a fresh relationship and after years of putting her personal life on hold wanted to take a quieter approach.

It would have been entirely inappropriate IMO for them to have basically ripped command from Cam and given it to Sam once it was apparent that she was going to stay. In choosing to stay, Sam understood no doubt what the terms were and was quite pleased with them because they gave her more free time to spend with a certain Jack O'Neill.

[sg-1fanintn]

Sims OT

Spoiler:

I always wanted to play it but I have yet to have a computer that can handle it... the one time I did play the Sims (2 I think) I ended up having the woman marry every man in town, trap him in a room in a secret house I made out back with no doors and then when I got bored I had them start a fire in a room full of wicker furniture...

* Raises eyebrow in Teal'c-like fashion.

Shannon...this is a side of you I've never seen before--LOL!

OT on decisions by Sam and Young:

Spoiler:

And I totally agree on the Young issue! He deserved the dressing down! As the Lucian Alliance was coming in through the gate, I was sitting in front of the TV repeating, "Vent the atmosphere, vent the atmosphere!" His indecision/lack of action put everyone on Destiny in jeopardy.

Of course, if he had done the right thing, there might not be a part 2 to the episode...

As to Sam's decision, I'm in total agreement there too. There was no time for her to do anything other than what she did. She could either lose two pilots or lose her ship and her entire crew. She made the only choice she could make.

BTW...I can hardly believe it has been 546 pages since we broke the last version of this thread! We do have a little fun, don't we?

+ =

[Nynaeve506]

* Raises eyebrow in Teal'c-like fashion.

Shannon...this is a side of you I've never seen before--LOL!

OT on decisions by Sam and Young:

Spoiler:

And I totally agree on the Young issue! He deserved the dressing down! As the Lucian Alliance was coming in through the gate, I was sitting in front of the TV repeating, "Vent the atmosphere, vent the atmosphere!" His indecision/lack of action put everyone on Destiny in jeopardy.

Of course, if he had done the right thing, there might not be a part 2 to the episode...

As to Sam's decision, I'm in total agreement there too. There was no time for her to do anything other than what she did. She could either lose two pilots or lose her ship and her entire crew. She made the only choice she could make.

BTW...I can hardly believe it has been 546 pages since we broke the last version of this thread! We do have a little fun, don't we?

+ =

Sims OT

Spoiler:

How's this for a story - I did this while borrowing a friend's version of the game. So in college, while checking out a version of the game to buy myself this other guy came up and started talking Sims to me. It went something like this:

Me: Yeah, my Sims ended up on fire.
Him: You know if you up your cooking skill you can avoid that.
Me: Oh, no, I mean, I did it on purpose.

He stopped talking to me after that... LOL

I know... but doesn't it ever feel like a marathon only to wake up and find out you have another marathon followed by another marathon??? 10000 pages seems SO FAR AWAY... and we'll only break it when we get there again...

I think I can...
I think I can...
I think I can...

Oh hey, I think I have a hundred looks of Jack somewhere, maybe I'll pull that out some time in the next week.

[Akamaimom]

Oh hey, I think I have a hundred looks of Jack somewhere, maybe I'll pull that out some time in the next week.

You mean he has more looks than just "HOT"?

Snicker snicker snicker

[mad_gater]

Sims OT

Spoiler:

How's this for a story - I did this while borrowing a friend's version of the game. So in college, while checking out a version of the game to buy myself this other guy came up and started talking Sims to me. It went something like this:

Me: Yeah, my Sims ended up on fire.
Him: You know if you up your cooking skill you can avoid that.
Me: Oh, no, I mean, I did it on purpose.

He stopped talking to me after that... LOL

I know... but doesn't it ever feel like a marathon only to wake up and find out you have another marathon followed by another marathon??? 10000 pages seems SO FAR AWAY... and we'll only break it when we get there again...

I think I can...
I think I can...
I think I can...

Oh hey, I think I have a hundred looks of Jack somewhere, maybe I'll pull that out some time in the next week.

- *protects house from the above-named pyromaniac*....

[mad_gater]

Oh, I agree. Pretty much everybody who knows me will tell you that I hate the last 2 seasons and what they did to the characters with passion (Just check out my rants in the team thread, )

Except I really dig SGU.



Tbh, the Hammond command has grown on me. At first I wasn't thrilled with the idea and I thought it's a step down/demotion after Atlantis, but eventually I came to like it.

AGA!!!!!! *crash tackle squishy bear huggles*....welcome back....

or maybe you've been back and I'm still just trying to get used to your new ID....

[hlndncr]

Sims OT

Spoiler:

I always wanted to play it but I have yet to have a computer that can handle it... the one time I did play the Sims (2 I think) I ended up having the woman marry every man in town, trap him in a room in a secret house I made out back with no doors and then when I got bored I had them start a fire in a room full of wicker furniture...

I'm a little scared now.

My thoughts on Young in SGU

Spoiler:

I don't think it's so far off that you end up with a guy like him as a Colonel. I mean, in any field you have people get promoted just because they're there long enough. It could very well be that Young hasn't ever been in a real combat command where he's ever had to make a super hard decision. Telford was in charge of the 302 pilots, I get the feeling that they didn't really expect anything to happen at Icarus and it's certainly plausible that he took the position trying to fix a career that was out the door. Besides, *most* people (career military) retire at the rank of Lt. Colonel (just as a side rant, I once didn't make it through the first chapter of a fic because they had Sam being harassed at boot camp for being the daughter of a Lt. Col at the time... the author never responded when I pointed out that it wasn't a very uncommon rank)... but I digress... so he might have been on his way out as it was.

Spoiler:

I can't buy that they would allow someone with no real experience and a career in the toilet to take such an important and high level assignment just to help him rehabilitate his career. It certainly doesn't match up with the hard @$$ Jack they've been showing lately (although it does reflect a solid lack of good judgment which is another travesty of Jack's characterization we've gotten from SGU.

My thoughts on SGU F-302

Spoiler:

When it comes to leaving people behind it was always unrealistic. It's the ideal to strive for but as Spock points out the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. We saw the planet explode within half a second of Sam jumping to hyperspace. In early SG-1 there was always a last minute save. But there isn't always a last minute save. Sometimes people die. A lot of times people die. What makes a *good* commander is someone who can make that decision which is why I thought Young's dressing down was very well deserved. Sam left her pilots because because there was nothing she could do - Young sacrificed Destiny and everyone on board because he didn't have the guts to do what needed to be done. It's cold, but conflict is messy.

To be fair too - you have to make quick decisions and it's easy to criticize in hindsight (which is what makes the IoA so damn irritating). Young had a few minutes to make a decision - it was a gamble and he lost.

Spoiler:

I do think there was something Sam could have done and if it had been Jack aboard the destiney and that were Daniel in the gateroom you can be d@m^ sure he would have done the same thing as Young.

But it should be obvious to everyone by now that I don't find much redeeming value in SGU. (Actually just the one line: I'm sorry Sam.)

[hlndncr]

It would have been entirely inappropriate IMO for them to have basically ripped command from Cam and given it to Sam once it was apparent that she was going to stay. In choosing to stay, Sam understood no doubt what the terms were and was quite pleased with them because they gave her more free time to spend with a certain Jack O'Neill.

I just can't agree with that. The Air Force can give command to whoever they want for whatever reason, especially someone who, while of the same rank, has vastly more experience and is far more qualified for the command. There's nothing inappropriate about that. In fact, if I were part of the SGC I'd feel a lot better about that than leaving a green as grass commander (with no off-world or special forces/ground combat training or experience that we can see) being given command of the number 1 frontline team over it's former commander. I'd have very little confidence in that kind of leadership.

And I don't think being in command of her own team (SG1 or otherwise) would have interfered with her commitment to Jack. I mean a couple of years later she took a command in another galaxey. I just can't see Sam selling herself short like that or being happy with being less than the best she can be. And the great thing about her relationship with Jack is that he not only understands that about her; he's proud of it. He would never stand for her saying, "Oh no I'd rather be with you than command my own team."